Jason Quick on Courtside

[illmatic99]

star's or stars? I'm for the later

STOMP

Either works. I was specifically addressing Roy, though.

 

[julius]

star's or stars? I'm for the later

STOMP

I agree, but right now only one of the players on the team is actually a star.

 

[B-Roy]

Roy has mentioned before that this confusions is not due to shot attempts. Here's an excerpt from Quick's piece today:

You don't think it's Nate's responsibility to come up with better plays to cater to his star's needs?

So we should have less post ups for Oden?

Brandon feels like the majority of the plays are being called for the bigs...their 5-4 series, but a lot of the sets are being called for them and a lot of those sets do not involve Brandon, and Brandon doesn't have anything to do at all,

 

[illmatic99]

So we should have less post ups for Oden?

I don't really understand your problem here. You're going around in circles, and just seem to picking a mindless argument.

I specifically mentioned designing "new plays" to alleviate Roy's concerns. Where did Oden and his post ups come into the picture? I hope you do realize there can be more plays involving all our players without having to compromise Oden's touches.

 

[Nikolokolus]

#1: Wade is significantly better than Roy, and
#2: Wade doesn't play with two other offensive players as good as Aldridge and Oden.

I don't buy the Wade comparison for a minute.

Ed O.

Brandon is certainly on the next tier down from Wade in terms of his overall ability, but I'm not so sure LaMarcus and Oden are leaps and bounds better than Jermaine O'Neal and Micheal Beasley ... I'd say LA and Oden are slightly better, but it's not like Wade isn't playing with, at minimum, decent front court players.

 

[Ed O]

Brandon is certainly on the next tier down from Wade in terms of his overall ability, but I'm not so sure LaMarcus and Oden are leaps and bounds better than Jermaine O'Neal and Micheal Beasley ... I'd say LA and Oden are slightly better, but it's not like Wade isn't playing with, at minimum, decent front court players.

Beasley is not a very effective offensive player yet. He's so young that (assuming he gets his head right) he seems to be predestined to be one, but he's not there yet... 43.4% from the field just isn't that good.

With that being said, they ARE, at minimum, decent. They're just not as good as Oden and Aldridge.

Ed O.

 

[Boob-No-More]

"Also, most of Oden's post plays do not involve Roy at all"

Roy shouldn't feel bad. When Blake is running the point, most of Oden's post up plays don't involve Oden, either.

Brandon isn't the only one making a sacrifice it keep Steve Blake in the starting line-up. Oden, Roy and Aldridge all suffer the consequences of a PG who can't create easy scoring opportunities for others, or feed the low post. And, of course, Andre Miller suffers the consequences of a coach who has his head buried so far up his ass he won't even consider starting a PG who can do all of those things and make his teammates better - and happier.

But hey, at least Blanky is shooting almost 38% from the field and has the worst FT% of any player in the rotation. So, he does create offensive rebounding opportunities for his teammates.

BNM

 

[alex42083]

I think if OJ Mayo, of all people, is going to be a guiding influence on Roy, then this team has spent way too much money on Brandon.

If I get a vote, only players with average PERs or higher should be able to make him feel inferior. Maybe someday Mayo will crack 15.0, but until that day Roy would probably be better served to ignore him.

Ed O.

That's the thing, though. Brandon got stood up by a player who is nowhere close to his level, and watched his team in the process get dominated at home by a crappy team.

Yeah, it'd probably be best if he ignored him.. but considering what the team is going through, it's got to be playing on his mind, and it obviously has. Hopefully we see Brandon just let loose tomorrow, and just be himself, and stop thinking about all this stuff.

 

[Nikolokolus]

"Also, most of Oden's post plays do not involve Roy at all"

Roy shouldn't feel bad. When Blake is running the point, most of Oden's post up plays don't involve Oden, either.

Brandon isn't the only one making a sacrifice it keep Steve Blake in the starting line-up. Oden, Roy and Aldridge all suffer the consequences of a PG who can't create easy scoring opportunities for others, or feed the low post. And, of course, Andre Miller suffers the consequences of a coach who has his head buried so far up his ass he won't even consider starting a PG who can do all of those things and make his teammates better - and happier.

But hey, at least Blanky is shooting almost 38% from the field and has the worst FT% of any player in the rotation. So, he does create offensive rebounding opportunities for his teammates.

BNM

To be fair to Blake (OK, not really, I'm actually about to be a prick to Blake) when you only attempt 21 free throws in 19 games a single miss can have a pretty remarkable effect on your averages.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Thanks for posting this.

I think, personally, that Roy should worry less about Wade and James and Kobe and just be himself. He was a pretty good player before he worried about pecking orders.

Ed O.

I'm replying before I read the entire thread, so forgive me if this was already brought up...


...both Roy and LMA's contracts are heavily incentivized; I wonder if their performance this year (or lack of) is affecting their payday next year. It may be that, in trying to encourage good play from Roy and LMA, the contracts are actually doing more to encourage selfish play because of the incentives being offered.

Of course, without knowing what the incentives are, it's just speculation. But I could see a player being frustrated by the mixed message: "The contract I saigned incentivizes me if I am the man, but to win you want me to give up shots, which makes the incentives impossible to achieve! WTF!"

Which is interesting, because that makes those incentives just like most of the bullshit management carrots most corporations pull to make their workers work harder. Maybe Roy's just a wage slave like the rest of us.

 

[PapaG]

"Also, most of Oden's post plays do not involve Roy at all"

Roy shouldn't feel bad. When Blake is running the point, most of Oden's post up plays don't involve Oden, either.

Brandon isn't the only one making a sacrifice it keep Steve Blake in the starting line-up. Oden, Roy and Aldridge all suffer the consequences of a PG who can't create easy scoring opportunities for others, or feed the low post. And, of course, Andre Miller suffers the consequences of a coach who has his head buried so far up his ass he won't even consider starting a PG who can do all of those things and make his teammates better - and happier.

But hey, at least Blanky is shooting almost 38% from the field and has the worst FT% of any player in the rotation. So, he does create offensive rebounding opportunities for his teammates.

BNM

Just because you write dissertations about BLANKY that are filled with lies does not make them valid. It's "crap", but it's written as "crapcrapcrapcrapcrapcrapcrap".

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm replying before I read the entire thread, so forgive me if this was already brought up...


...both Roy and LMA's contracts are heavily incentivized; I wonder if their performance this year (or lack of) is affecting their payday next year. It may be that, in trying to encourage good play from Roy and LMA, the contracts are actually doing more to encourage selfish play because of the incentives being offered.

Of course, without knowing what the incentives are, it's just speculation. But I could see a player being frustrated by the mixed message: "The contract I saigned incentivizes me if I am the man, but to win you want me to give up shots, which makes the incentives impossible to achieve! WTF!"

Which is interesting, because that makes those incentives just like most of the bullshit management carrots most corporations pull to make their workers work harder. Maybe Roy's just a wage slave like the rest of us.

I wondered about the same thing ... It's funny how people being paid for their production will try to make sure they get theirs before worrying about everyone else and in this case the difference between sacrificing and not is millions of dollars, not some 50 dollar spiff the washing machine salesmen fight over at Sears.

 

[PapaG]

I wondered about the same thing ... It's funny how people being paid for their production will try to make sure they get theirs before worrying about everyone else and in this case the difference between sacrificing and not is millions of dollars, not some 50 dollar spiff the washing machine salesmen fight over at Sears.

Roy and LMA are still on their rookie deals this year. Production, in terms of next year's signed extension, means literally ZERO.

BLANKY!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Roy and LMA are still on their rookie deals this year. Production, in terms of next year's signed extension, means literally ZERO.

BLANKY!

Fair enough point.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Roy and LMA are still on their rookie deals this year. Production, in terms of next year's signed extension, means literally ZERO.

We don't know that, and there's no rule saying it couldn't be so. There could be a balloon payment coming for the 1st year if Roy makes the All Star Game this year and next. Or Roy gets $10,000 for every triple-double he posts between contract signing and end of contract. We simply don't know.

Fuck, I regret saying anything now because this will very likely devolve into an argument. It was just idle speculation. I'm done defending it. Feel free to nitpick and tear it apart to your heart's content. I'm not going to get into another bullshit argument with you.

 

[Nikolokolus]

We don't know that, and there's no rule saying it couldn't be so. There could be a balloon payment coming for the 1st year if Roy makes the All Star Game this year and next. Or Roy gets $10,000 for every triple-double he posts between contract signing and end of contract. We simply don't know.

Fuck, I regret saying anything now because this will very likely devolve into an argument. It was just idle speculation. I'm done defending it. Feel free to nitpick and tear it apart to your heart's content. I'm not going to get into another bullshit argument with you.

Damn.

 

[PapaG]

We don't know that, and there's no rule saying it couldn't be so. There could be a balloon payment coming for the 1st year if Roy makes the All Star Game this year and next. Or Roy gets $10,000 for every triple-double he posts between contract signing and end of contract. We simply don't know.

Fuck, I regret saying anything now because this will very likely devolve into an argument. It was just idle speculation. I'm done defending it. Feel free to nitpick and tear it apart to your heart's content. I'm not going to get into another bullshit argument with you.

Any production on the extension can't be applied to this season. That's against the CBA. If debating facts is a "bullshit" argument, so be it. I'm not criticizing you; I'm merely pointing out the inaccuracy in your speculation regarding the driving force behind Roy's/LMA's play this year.

No biggie, right?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Any production on the extension can't be applied to this season. That's against the CBA.

Why didn't you say that in the first place? That's so much nicer (and more informative) than the "literally ZERO" post.

No biggie, right?

No biggie.

 

[PapaG]

Why didn't you say that in the first place? That's so much nicer than the "literally ZERO" post.



No biggie.

I have an instinctive defense mechanism on this board. It is my first reaction.

Nate, there is my "victim" post.

 

[Kaydow]

Thanks for the recap - I thought it was insightful. The one thing it doesn't address is that when Brandon DOES have the ball, he's not as effective as he was last season. Actually, MB touched on it, but Quick didn't respond to the point. His handles have been sloppy at times, he looks slower and less explosive most nights, and even when he has tried to take over he doesn't seem to have that extra gear. It's hard to believe that it's all attributable to this lack of team ying/yang offensive cohesiveness. When the team's offense stalled in the past, it was Brandon to the rescue - he looked unstoppable at times. Haven't seen that this year. Is he nicked up? Did taking the whole summer off hurt his game? I don't think he'd have to be making sacrifices if his game was where it was at last season. His teammates are going to defer to him when he's "in the zone". A lot of times, he's passing up shots and I don't think it's 100% unselfishness - the confidence just isn't there. Why? I have no clue. I'd love to hear Brandon comment on this. Where's your handles? Where's your explosion? How come every night I hear MR & MB say "____ is doing a great job defending Brandon tonight." (fill in the blank with Monta Ellis, Trenton Hassell, or a number of other guys who have succeeded in making Brandon look, well, fairly easy to check)

I have a hunch (and I could be wrong) that taking the summer off hurt him. When he came to camp, it looked like he hadn't touched a weight all summer. His body looked thin - some said he wanted to "lean up" for quickness. Really? Because he looks SLOWER. He had a bad pre-season, and it just hasn't gotten better. I've sort of thought this all year, but I also thought that by game 19 he would be back to last seasons form.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Yeah, Roy sitting around waiting for his extension may have hurt him... but I expect that he'll be able to work himself into game shape over the course of November and December. Lots of players do this, so it's not unusual. It's just... not the ridiculous exuberance of last season.

 

[MARIS61]

Just because you write dissertations about BLANKY that are filled with lies does not make them valid. It's "crap", but it's written as "crapcrapcrapcrapcrapcrapcrap".

That's why The Boob is the only poster on my ignore list.

I can't abide dishonesty.

 

[PapaG]

That's why The Boob is the only poster on my ignore list.

I can't abide dishonesty.

He does seem to have a problem with telling the truth, at least statistically.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

What Brandon doesn't seem to understand and his peers, coaches and managment is doing a horrible job to get him to understand is THIS ISN'T ONLY ABOUT NOW AND THIS YEAR. This is about the long term as much as it is about now. For this team to be as successful as they can be and for them to reach the heights they can reach. They are going to need him, LaMarcus and maybe even more so Greg Oden. Do I dare say that Greg and his development is more important for this team than Brandon getting his touches right now? It might hurt, but it's the truth. The Portland Trail Blazers is about more than Brandon Roy and I don't think he has moved outside his box to see that. Nor has his head coach done enough to get him to see this.

Bottom line Brandon needs to wake up and understand that it's about more than just him. His coaches and management need to help him see that.

 

[PapaG]

What Brandon doesn't seem to understand and his peers, coaches and managment is doing a horrible job to get him to understand is THIS ISN'T ONLY ABOUT THIS YEAR. This is about the long term as much as it is about now. For this team to be as successful as they can be and for them to reach the heights they can reach. They are going to need him, LaMarcus and maybe even more so Greg Oden. Do I dare say that Greg and his development is more important for this team than Brandon getting his touches right now? It might hurt, but it's the truth. The Portland Trail Blazers is about more than Brandon Roy and I don't think he has moved outside his box to see that. Nor has his head coach done enough to get him to see this.

Bottom line Brandon needs to wake up and understand that it's about more than just him. His coaches and management need to help him see that.

So, if it's about the long term, why sign an aging, yet established (somewhat), Andre Miller to what is basically a two-year contract? Because Miller is jacking up shots at his career rate, while assisting at a much lower rate.

 

[BBert]

Thanks for the recap!

I agree it's kind of dumb for Roy not to touch the ball for long stretches, especially if he has any kind of green light to create if something presents itself -- which may not be possible with Nate at the helm I admit.

It sounds like there are two good options to give Brandon what he wants.

First, the coach could design and run some plays so Roy gets to touch the ball and be involved in getting the ball to the post players. That may not be realistic since Nate has one set system, and no matter what players he has at his disposal, it seems they have to mold into his system. Which sucks.

Second, would be for Roy to play PG, with Rudy at SG.

Bottom line is, it's on the coach to develop a system to take advantage of the players at his disposal. Meanwhile, Nate insists on the round and octagonal players being stuffed into square holes. And what is perhaps worse, Nate insists that it's up to the players themselves to figure out how to maximize their effectiveness on the court.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

So, if it's about the long term, why sign an aging, yet established (somewhat), Andre Miller to what is basically a two-year contract? Because Miller is jacking up shots at his career rate, while assisting at a much lower rate.

Because really it is about both. Believe it or not, there is a median. You want to have success now but it's even more important to plan for the future.

 

[Nikolokolus]

What Brandon doesn't seem to understand and his peers, coaches and managment is doing a horrible job to get him to understand is THIS ISN'T ONLY ABOUT THIS YEAR. This is about the long term as much as it is about now. For this team to be as successful as they can be and for them to reach the heights they can reach. They are going to need him, LaMarcus and maybe even more so Greg Oden. Do I dare say that Greg and his development is more important for this team than Brandon getting his touches right now? It might hurt, but it's the truth. The Portland Trail Blazers is about more than Brandon Roy and I don't think he has moved outside his box to see that. Nor has his head coach done enough to get him to see this.

Bottom line Brandon needs to wake up and understand that it's about more than just him. His coaches and management need to help him see that.

Nah. I think he actually gets it more than most ... it's just tough to be patient and change. Especially when that change means playing worse in the short run (both as an individual and as a team) on nothing more than the hope that the new way will eventually be more productive than the old way.

I think of this situation being a bit like trying to solve a rubiks cube. Doing it the old way Brandon was able to solve two sides (pretty good!), now somebody has come along and tells him that he needs to solve the whole thing ... but the only way to solve the whole thing is to scramble the two completed sides first. The hope is that the new way works and in a similar way right now Brandon is operating on faith that what's good for Oden (and Lamarcus) will eventually be good for him.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Nah. I think he actually gets it more than most ... it's just tough to be patient and change. Especially when that change means playing worse in the short run (both as an individual and as a team) on nothing more than the hope that the new way will eventually be more productive than the old way.

I think of this situation being a bit like trying to solve a rubiks cube. Doing it the old way Brandon was able to solve two sides (pretty good!), now somebody has come along and tells him that he needs to solve the whole thing ... but the only way to solve the whole thing is to scramble the two completed sides first. The hope is that the new way works and in a similar way right now Brandon is operating on faith that what's good for Oden (and Lamarcus) will eventually be good for him.

Good points and could be.

 

[PapaG]

Nah. I think he actually gets it more than most ... it's just tough to be patient and change. Especially when that change means playing worse in the short run (both as an individual and as a team) on nothing more than the hope that the new way will eventually be more productive than the old way.

I think of this situation being a bit like trying to solve a rubiks cube. Doing it the old way Brandon was able to solve two sides (pretty good!), now somebody has come along and tells him that he needs to solve the whole thing ... but the only way to solve the whole thing is to scramble the two completed sides first. The hope is that the new way works and in a similar way right now Brandon is operating on faith that what's good for Oden (and Lamarcus) will eventually be good for him.

Or, Roy just needs a Shaq to come in and solve the other four sides by himself.

Hello, GO? This is why you were drafted. I'm still wondering where a ball-dominating PG fits into this equation.