"Jesus Rifles" in US Military

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DaRizzle

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Interesting Video in link:

Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the U.S. military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian." The company has said the practice began under its founder, Glyn Bindon, a devout Christian from South Africa who was killed in a 2003 plane crash.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-mi...bed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794

This just help terrorists use this as propaganda at the least, but on the worse side it sure seems that the Gov knew this and was okay with it...

hmmmm...its all about time and place....not a good time or place
 
Yep this will fuel the fire some more. Unfortunately the facts are a lot of Christians want exactly that to happen.
 
How do you go after Christians like this?

Easy: you just don't lead them as much.
 
File off the numbers, cancel the company's contracts and prosecute them for conspiracy and fraud against the government.

In addition to the universally obvious knowledge that America is founded on the separation of church and state, all bidders on government contracts are provided all the laws and regulations applicable to their service/product. They knowingly and quite mailciously violated it and have now escalated the number of Americans who will die.

Appropriate that the founder, a man who made his fortune on the deaths of millions, claimed to be a devout christian.
 
I really want to comment on this story but it might affect my work :devilwink:
 
I find it funny. Ok, Christian believe we're all "god's children" and do they really think he's going to take sides in a war?

It's all non-sense.
 
File off the numbers, cancel the company's contracts and prosecute them for conspiracy and fraud against the government.

In addition to the universally obvious knowledge that America is founded on the separation of church and state, all bidders on government contracts are provided all the laws and regulations applicable to their service/product. They knowingly and quite mailciously violated it and have now escalated the number of Americans who will die.

Appropriate that the founder, a man who made his fortune on the deaths of millions, claimed to be a devout christian.

You do realize that the words "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the constitution or in the articles of confederation, right?
 
You do realize that the words "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the constitution or in the articles of confederation, right?

You do realize the concept is articulated in the 1st amendment despite the lack of this exact quote, right? The quote is from Thomas Jefferson referring to the 1st...of course he had NOTHING to do with it and clearly misunderstood what the constitution said...
 
You do realize the concept is articulated in the 1st amendment despite the lack of this exact quote, right? The quote is from Thomas Jefferson referring to the 1st...of course he had NOTHING to do with it and clearly misunderstood what the constitution said...

My point still stands. That quote does not exist in either of those documents. The actual meaning can be debated, but the constitution was the ultimate work of many individuals, not just Jefferson. In fact, it was James Madison who was the mastermind and driving force behind the constitution. Not Jefferson.

With that said, our founding fathers did not intend for all religion to be removed from the government. They simply did not want a church state similar to the Church of England. They wanted people to be able to practice religion freely, which they can, and not be persecuted for their beliefs. I don't see how having "one nation, under god" or "in god we trust" persecutes or limits your freedoms or anyone elses for that matter.

Too many people these days take the phrase "separation of church and state" far too literally. It does not mean we can't have a christmas tree outside of a court house.

Oh, and I'm not religious. I don't go to church, but I would love to debate our founding fathers and their work with you. :cheers:
 
My point still stands. That quote does not exist in either of those documents. The actual meaning can be debated, but the constitution was the ultimate work of many individuals, not just Jefferson. In fact, it was James Madison who was the mastermind and driving force behind the constitution. Not Jefferson.

With that said, our founding fathers did not intend for all religion to be removed from the government. They simply did not want a church state similar to the Church of England. They wanted people to be able to practice religion freely, which they can, and not be persecuted for their beliefs. I don't see how having "one nation, under god" or "in god we trust" persecutes or limits your freedoms or anyone elses for that matter.

Too many people these days take the phrase "separation of church and state" far too literally. It does not mean we can't have a christmas tree outside of a court house.

Oh, and I'm not religious. I don't go to church, but I would love to debate our founding fathers and their work with you. :cheers:

I agree that the meaning is open to some interpretation. I jumped the gun a little because most often when someone says it's "not even in the constitution" they're rushing to the ...there isn't even supposed to be any separation argument.

You are right that the establishment clause was primarily directed at The Church of England type establishment. Personally I subscribe to the belief that government should not actively support any particular religion.

I think the place I see separation most frequently over interpreted is in schools. I play in a music group that does elementary school presentations and we had to carefully avoid saying "Christmas Break"...it's winter break nowadays :-)
 
well if there is no separation of church and state, which church? the christian church? which sect? protestants were the primary religion in the US at the time right?
 
File off the numbers, cancel the company's contracts and prosecute them for conspiracy and fraud against the government.
LOL. What is that? Caveat Emptor or something?
In addition to the universally obvious knowledge that America is founded on the separation of church and state, all bidders on government contracts are provided all the laws and regulations applicable to their service/product. They knowingly and quite mailciously violated it and have now escalated the number of Americans who will die.
First, if you think this is a "separation of church and state" issue then you're unfamiliar with the Bill of Rights. Second, if this was a problem there was plenty of time between contract award, PDR, CDR, Milestone C and IOT&E to notice and do something about it. Now, you want to spend more money either filing off numbers that only mean certain things to certain people, OR EVEN MORE STUPIDLY, buying new sights with different serial numbers?
Appropriate that the founder, a man who made his fortune on the deaths of millions, claimed to be a devout christian.
What's wrong with making money on the death of people? Christians can't be morticians? Or gravediggers?
 
My point still stands. That quote does not exist in either of those documents. The actual meaning can be debated, but the constitution was the ultimate work of many individuals, not just Jefferson. In fact, it was James Madison who was the mastermind and driving force behind the constitution. Not Jefferson.

With that said, our founding fathers did not intend for all religion to be removed from the government. They simply did not want a church state similar to the Church of England. They wanted people to be able to practice religion freely, which they can, and not be persecuted for their beliefs. I don't see how having "one nation, under god" or "in god we trust" persecutes or limits your freedoms or anyone elses for that matter.

Too many people these days take the phrase "separation of church and state" far too literally. It does not mean we can't have a christmas tree outside of a court house.

Oh, and I'm not religious. I don't go to church, but I would love to debate our founding fathers and their work with you. :cheers:

You must be French, as you seem to have no basic understanding of the principles behind our country's creation, or it's formation and growth over the last couple hundred years.

BTW, "Christmas trees" are not a religious symbol. They are a marketing tool.

You probably meant Nativity Scene.
 
well if there is no separation of church and state, which church? the christian church? which sect? protestants were the primary religion in the US at the time right?

How about the "Church of morons who believe in mythical superbeings"?

That way almost no religion is discriminated against.
 
You must be French, as you seem to have no basic understanding of the principles behind our country's creation, or it's formation and growth over the last couple hundred years.

BTW, "Christmas trees" are not a religious symbol. They are a marketing tool.

You probably meant Nativity Scene.

I obviously have a better understanding of colonial history than you.

Go get a book on religion during the 1600's and 1700's and then get back to me when you understand religion in the 13 colonies, as well as its effects on the forming of this nation.

Or would you rather I continue your education?
 
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well if there is no separation of church and state, which church? the christian church? which sect? protestants were the primary religion in the US at the time right?

It says there will be no establishment of religion. Over time it has become understood that government display/encouragement is effectively leading towards establishment and should be prohibited...except in cases where historically it has been allowed (for an example look at a piece of currency).
 
I obviously have a better understanding of colonial history than you.

Go get a book on religion during the 1600's and 1700's and then get back to me when you understand religion in the 13 colonies, as well as its effects on the forming of this nation.

Or would you rather I continue your education?

I doubt you can since yours seems to be fixated on a period hundreds of years ago and can't grasp that our country has evolved and refined itself continually since those basic concepts were first written. It's a good thing too 'cause people were f'ing morons back then. I doubt any of us today can truly grasp how ignorant people in general were 200+ years ago. They murdered people who they thought were witches, shit in a hole in the back yard, and usually died of a bad cold or the flu before they turned 40.

BTW, it will continue to change and be re-interpreted, as with our recent losses of civil rights and restrictions on travel imposed by the Bush/Cheney gang "for our protection", so do try to keep up.
 
I doubt you can since yours seems to be fixated on a period hundreds of years ago and can't grasp that our country has evolved and refined itself continually since those basic concepts were first written. It's a good thing too 'cause people were f'ing morons back then. I doubt any of us today can truly grasp how ignorant people in general were 200+ years ago. They murdered people who they thought were witches, shit in a hole in the back yard, and usually died of a bad cold or the flu before they turned 40.

BTW, it will continue to change and be re-interpreted, as with our recent losses of civil rights and restrictions on travel imposed by the Bush/Cheney gang "for our protection", so do try to keep up.

If you think Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison were morons, you've got another thing coming. I believe it is the opposite. It's the dumbing down of Americans. Any one of the founding fathers would run circles around a current day politician. They were well spoken, intelligent, and they knew exactly what boundaries to put on this country in order to protect it from future morons would would want to change things.
 
Constitutionality aside, I'm sure if Jesus were alive today he'd like nothing more than to have his religion stuck on an assault rifle scope. Product placement is so critical in a good marketing campaign.
 
Constitutionality aside, I'm sure if Jesus were alive today he'd like nothing more than to have his religion stuck on an assault rifle scope. Product placement is so critical in a good marketing campaign.

Goddamn, this is the post of the day.
 
jesusscope.jpg
 
Constitutionality aside, I'm sure if Jesus were alive today he'd like nothing more than to have his religion stuck on an assault rifle scope. Product placement is so critical in a good marketing campaign.

If Jesus were alive today, he'd be far more concerned with all the douche bags making money off of him. He wouldn't even have time to worry about the small reference to the Bible on an optic that is used for military purposes.
 
If Jesus were alive today, he'd be far more concerned with all the douche bags making money off of him. He wouldn't even have time to worry about the small reference to the Bible on an optic that is used for military purposes.

If jesus was alive today, he wouldn't make it onto an airplane without getting stopped 3 times by security.
 

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