Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

[hoopsjock]

Well I said after 2016 they haven't had much money.
Did he do anything all that good OR bad with all that money in 2012 or 2015? On memory is seems like he didn't really do anything all that spectacular either way. 2015 they lost LA and basically went young and cheap, then they had some success and we got 2016!
I have always tried to give credit that in 2015 though they didn't spend money, they rebuilt the entire team basically from scratch and NO did a good job of finding young players to go around dame. That the Blazers made the playoffs that year was impressive.

The question wasn't whether or not he spent money it was if he had handed out any other bad contracts.

My point is that if you eliminate one year out of seven off seasons as Blazers GM Olshey hasn't traded for or signed one bad contract. Why is it that the other 6 years he meticulously planned for contracts to end the same year and to not take on bad deals and then one summer just goes completely against that? Something doesn't add up there to me and that is why I believe Paul Allen had most of the say in the contracts that summer. Yes, it's still on the GM but it's just extremely odd that his reputation is that he hands out bad contracts when six out of the seven years he hasn't. I'm also not saying that he deserves a pass for 2016 because it was really fucking bad.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

The question wasn't whether or not he spent money it was if he had handed out any other bad contracts.

My point is that if you eliminate one year out of seven off seasons as Blazers GM Olshey hasn't traded for or signed one bad contract. Why is it that the other 6 years he meticulously planned for contracts to end the same year and to not take on bad deals and then one summer just goes completely against that? Something doesn't add up there to me and that is why I believe Paul Allen had most of the say in the contracts that summer. Yes, it's still on the GM but it's just extremely odd that his reputation is that he hands out bad contracts when six out of the seven years he hasn't. I'm also not saying that he deserves a pass for 2016 because it was really fucking bad.

That’s fair, honestly joking aside the way I see him is more as the guy who it just “never works out” for. Maybe it’s not fair, and in fact I know it isn’t completely fair, but it seems like everything is his plan c or d and rarely plan a happens. Even his best year 2015 plan a was to keep LaMarcus right? Even this year, well they “almost” had Cousins, and they were going after wings, and the trade exception.

 

[Scalma]

The question wasn't whether or not he spent money it was if he had handed out any other bad contracts.

My point is that if you eliminate one year out of seven off seasons as Blazers GM Olshey hasn't traded for or signed one bad contract. Why is it that the other 6 years he meticulously planned for contracts to end the same year and to not take on bad deals and then one summer just goes completely against that? Something doesn't add up there to me and that is why I believe Paul Allen had most of the say in the contracts that summer. Yes, it's still on the GM but it's just extremely odd that his reputation is that he hands out bad contracts when six out of the seven years he hasn't. I'm also not saying that he deserves a pass for 2016 because it was really fucking bad.

When has he even been in position to hand out bad contracts except the summer of 2016? I don’t remember Portland having any significant cap space outside of that summer.

 

[Rhal]

When has he even been in position to hand out bad contracts except the summer of 2016? I don’t remember Portland having any significant cap space outside of that summer.

not only that we were in a position because of CJ's extension to essentially use our capspace or lose it.

 

[BonesJones]

Was Paul George not offered 3 immediate first round picks and any player not named dame or CJ from us?

The Pacers got Sabonis and Oladipo (who exploded after getting to Indy, but was still better than anyone we currently have outside of CJ or Dame).

The Lakers could offer Brandon Ingram and salaries for Butler. He isnt going to leave the Lakers and lebron next year. Although that would have to wait until they could include KCP.

Kawhi Leonard sat out for almost an entire year, with people scared of injury issues and still got Demar DeRozan.

There's more teams tanking than before. Less teams are in a position to make that type of splash. Removing hindsight, Sabonis and Oladipo wasn't a great value at the time.

I don't think LA is gonna give up anything for Butler when they could go after him in free agency.

Also, picks in 2021/2023 will have value, since Butler could leave which means those picks would be solid, and with the minimum draft age set back to 18, one of them could be a superdraft.

Yes itd probably take CJ, but it's not inconceivable that 3 firsts could be the best offer for Butler at the deadline.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[hoopsjock]

When has he even been in position to hand out bad contracts except the summer of 2016? I don’t remember Portland having any significant cap space outside of that summer.

If you read all the posts in the discussion you would have seen that we talked about that. In 2012 and 2015 he had plenty of cap space too. Part of my point is that Olshey also never traded for bad contracts or re-signed any players he had bird rights to other than that summer. It's not just about having cap space.

 

[Scalma]

If you read all the posts in the discussion you would have seen that we talked about that. In 2012 and 2015 he had plenty of cap space too. Part of my point is that Olshey also never traded for bad contracts or re-signed any players he had bird rights to other than that summer. It's not just about having cap space.

Hard to trade for bad contracts when your roster is filled with rookie scales and minimum types with no cap space.

 

[hoopsjock]

Hard to trade for bad contracts when your roster is filled with rookie scales and minimum types with no cap space.

So the first three seasons here 2012-2015 the roster was filled with those kind of guys?

 

[Hoopguru]

Now if that doesn't convince everyone that ALL TV networks embellish the hell out of stories, and yes, even to the degree of Fake Fing News.
Its all about creating a frenzy to capitalize on ratings, whether, good or bad, happy or sad!

Thats why I don't watch much FOX, CNN, MSBNC they are all a bunch of media prostitutes.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Fuck Dave Deckard.

Dave Deckard: Breaking news about...free agent signings... and trades... for the one, and only, local team you cover... is so hard... folks...

Adrian Wojnarowski: *walking behind, breaking news about every free agent signing and pending trade for the entire fucking league*

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Fuck Dave Deckard.

Dave Deckard: Breaking news about...free agent signings... and trades... for the one, and only, local team you cover... is so hard... folks...

Adrian Wojnarowski: *walking behind, breaking news about every free agent signing and pending trade for the entire fucking league*

BNM

I’m not disagreeing, but isn’t that just an Ad Hominem arguement? It doesn’t necessarily prove he’s wrong, just proves he’s not good at his job either...

 

[BBert]

err what?

tbh i almost hit the 'report' button instead of the reply button.

not meyers?

explain yourself.

It was a cry for attention.

I'm better now.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I’m not disagreeing, but isn’t that just an Ad Hominem arguement? It doesn’t necessarily prove he’s wrong, just proves he’s not good at his job either...

It's not even an argument. Just pointing out his hypocrisy. People who live in glass houses, and all that...

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

It's not even an argument. Just pointing out his hypocrisy. People who live in glass houses, and all that...

BNM

Fair enough!

 

[Scalma]

Fuck Dave Deckard.

Dave Deckard: Breaking news about...free agent signings... and trades... for the one, and only, local team you cover... is so hard... folks...

Adrian Wojnarowski: *walking behind, breaking news about every free agent signing and pending trade for the entire fucking league*

BNM

Are the guys at blazersedge reporters? Most of them don’t even have press passes. They’re just bloggers. And in this case, they made a good joke, since there’s some truth in it. And I hate blazersedge.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Are the guys at blazersedge reporters? Most of them don’t even have press passes. They’re just bloggers. And in this case, they made a good joke, since there’s some truth in it. And I hate blazersedge.

They made a joke at Olshey's expense and I turned that around and made a joke at their expense. Turnabout is fair play, hoisted by their own petard, and all that...

BNM

 

[dviss1]

Now if that doesn't convince everyone that ALL TV networks embellish the hell out of stories, and yes, even to the degree of Fake Fing News.
Its all about creating a frenzy to capitalize on ratings, whether, good or bad, happy or sad!

Thats why I don't watch much FOX, CNN, MSBNC they are all a bunch of media prostitutes.

Kicks him off his soapbox.

It's never good to say "all" or "never".

 

[e_blazer]

Kicks him off his soapbox.

It's never good to say "all" or "never".

Heehee.

 

[dviss1]

Heehee.

#BAM

GOT ME!!!

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Kicks him off his soapbox.

It's never good to say "all" or "never".

I think while we're more informed than ever, it's really hard to decipher that information. I don't think ALL cnn / fox / msnbc journalists and media are only pushing agenda's, but for me personally it's hard to really dig through the crap. It's easy to just accept the information that I, "like" but that's not a very good process... Our OT section is full of people just posting links to articles that they like, with conflicting information from another media outlet that supports the other point of view. Anyways not to get on a soap box, I could just be stupid but I hate watching the news and it doesn't really matter which news channel, because I've always got that how much of the truth are they actually telling me feeling.

 

[dviss1]

I think while we're more informed than ever, it's really hard to decipher that information. I don't think ALL cnn / fox / msnbc journalists and media are only pushing agenda's, but for me personally it's hard to really dig through the crap. It's easy to just accept the information that I, "like" but that's not a very good process... Our OT section is full of people just posting links to articles that they like, with conflicting information from another media outlet that supports the other point of view. Anyways not to get on a soap box, I could just be stupid but I hate watching the news and it doesn't really matter which news channel, because I've always got that how much of the truth are they actually telling me feeling.

CNN, NY Times, and Washington Post were never "fake news" until Agent Orange was elected.

IMHO THIS is the shit we have to watch out for:



It has nothing to do with news and everything with a corporation wanting to send out THEIR message.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

CNN, NY Times, and Washington Post were never fake news until Agent Orange was elected.

IMHO THIS is the shit we have to watch out for:

Fake news maybe not. Highly agendized though, I don't think that's new to Trump. I understand your point and agree though.

 

[Blazers Roy]

If Butler knows Stotts then he wouldn't want to play for him.

Butler is not a big upgrade over CJ, We would still be ranked below Hou,GS and probably SAS and NO with him.

 

[dviss1]

If Butler knows Stotts then he wouldn't want to play for him.

Butler is not a big upgrade over CJ, We would still be ranked below Hou,GS and probably SAS and NO with him.

I personally don't think he fits our system as a SG. He'd be a nice SF if we could keep CJ though.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

CJ's a better creator on offense and pure shooter. Butler is better for match up's as he can switch on SF's because of his size, and he is "stronger" than CJ. I think CJ fits Terry's offense though. The Blazers need forwards who can score just replacing CJ with another SG doesn't do much in my opinion. They are starting two guys who are basically role players at SF / PF not enough scoring in my opinion.

 

[Boob-No-More]

If Butler knows Stotts then he wouldn't want to play for him.

Butler is not a big upgrade over CJ, We would still be ranked below Hou,GS and probably SAS and NO with him.

I love C.J., but I think you are severely underrating Butler. He is 6'8" and can play both the 2 and the 3. He has been All NBA 3rd team twice (including last season) . He has also been 2nd Team All Defense four times (including last season). He did this all while averaging more points and more assists per game, and of course, more rebounds and steals, than C.J. over the past two seasons.

The last two seasons:

Butler: 23.3 ppg, 5.9 rpg. 5.3 apg, 1.9 spg

C.J.: 22.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 0.9 spg

So, Butler averages 1 more point, 1.9 more rebounds, 1.8 more assists and 1 more steal per game than C.J., but that doesn't tell the compete story. When you look at the advanced stats, Butler's superiority becomes obvious:

The last two seasons:

Butler: PER = 24.5, TS% = .588, USG% = 25.8, WS = 11.6, WS/48 = .219, VORP = 5.20

C.J.: PER = 18.4, TS% = .560, USG% = 27.0, WS = 7.10, WS/48 = .119, VORP = 1.95

Two things here surprised me, and really stand out. I knew Butler was a better all around contributor, but his TS% is significantly higher than C.J.'s and he scores more points and gets more assists, while having a lower USG% than C.J. C.J. is known for his shooting, but the only thing he does better than Butler is shoot the 3. Butler gets to the line a lot more and has a much higher 2FG%, thus resulting in a significantly higher TS%.

So, Butler puts up better per game numbers across the board than C.J. He scores more and does so more efficiently, and hands out significantly more assist, all while using up fewer possessions than C.J. He would easily replace C.J.'s scoring, while also being one of the top 10 defenders in the game. If you ask me, that's a pretty significant upgrade.

It may not be enough to get us past GSW or HOU, but I think it would vault us ahead of SAS, NOP, OKC, MIN, DEN, UTA, etc. And, Butler is one few defenders in the league capable of slowing down Kevin Durant and James Harden without relying on constant double teams. Given Terry's flat out refusal to double team the other team's best player, that would be huge for us in a 7 game series. Enough to win that series, hard to say, but enough to make it competitive.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

CJ's a better creator on offense and pure shooter. Butler is better for match up's as he can switch on SF's because of his size, and he is "stronger" than CJ. I think CJ fits Terry's offense though. The Blazers need forwards who can score just replacing CJ with another SG doesn't do much in my opinion. They are starting two guys who are basically role players at SF / PF not enough scoring in my opinion.

Butler is 6'8" and perfectly capable of playing SF.

In spite of C.J. being a better "pure shooter", Butler has a significant'y higher TS% over the past two seasons (.588 vs. .560). Butler scores more, gets significantly more rebounds, more assists and more steals, while doings so more efficiently than C.J. and being one of the top 10 defenders in the game.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I personally don't think he fits our system as a SG. He'd be a nice SF if we could keep CJ though.

I think he fits our system as a player. Put him at SG or SF, and we are a much better team at both ends. I think people are underrating just how valuable a 2-way player Butler is. He puts up better per game numbers than C.J. and does so more efficiently.

And, on the defensive end, it's not even close. He ranks right up there with Paul George and Kawhi Leonard as one of the best wing defenders in the league. He can guard Durant, LeBron and Harden straight up as well as anyone in the league. Can C.J. do that?

Butler is one of the few players I'd gladly give up C.J. (plus additional assets) to get. He is the rare 2-way player that would make this team better at both ends of the floor. We are overloaded at guard. Granted Simons and Trent Jr. are young and lack experience, but depending on who we gave up (in addition to C.J.), we would have so much versatility, due to Butler's ability to guard both 2s and 3s.

Need more 3-point shooting, pair Butler at the 3 with Trent Jr. or Curry at the 2. Need lock down defense, how does Butler at the 2, Harkless at the 3, Aminu (or Collins) at the 4 and Nurk (or Collins) at the 5 grab you? We could go big, or small, as needed. In fact, we could even force other people to match up with us for a change. Wouldn't that be refreshing?

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Butler is 6'8" and perfectly capable of playing SF.

In spite of C.J. being a better "pure shooter", Butler has a significant'y higher TS% over the past two seasons (.588 vs. .560). Butler scores more, gets significantly more rebounds, more assists and more steals, while doings so more efficiently than C.J. and being one of the top 10 defenders in the game.

BNM

No doubt that Butler's more efficient than CJ, and takes much better shots than CJ. Butler's defense has basically gotten worse every year of his career though. In fact last year CJ's Drtg (per 100) was 109 and Butler's was 110. CJ's defensive win shares last year 2.9 - Jimmy's was 1.8. I realize Injuries play a part in that, but that's also something to consider of Butler's 7 season's he's played more than 70 games only twice. CJ has already done it 3 times, and that's taking into account that CJ didn't get on the court much his 1st and 2nd year, since he's been a starter he's played 80, 80 and 81 games.