Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

[hoopsjock]

Combining several past and present rumors...

Blazers get Butler and Dieng

Kings get Harkless

Wolves get Turner, Aminu, Trent, and a 2019 Blazers 1st Round Pick

Kings would get Harkless for nothing, which I think they would do assuming Harkless is healthy. Wolves save $11 million this year and only have to pay Turner one more year after this one as opposed to two more years of Dieng at a similar price. So they get two "quality" vets, cap relief, a young wing, and a future asset.

Blazers give up a lot but it clears up the lineup a lot:

Starters: Dame, CJ, Butler, Collins, Nurk

Bench: Baldwin, Curry, Simons, Stauskas, Layman, Dieng, Swanigan, Leonard

Leaves two open roster spots which could be filled by signing two more guys or with using the Vonleh TPE to acquire someone else (presumably a 3/4 type).

 

[blue9]

Given the situation, that's a ridiculous amount for MIN to be asking. As good as Butler is today, the team that lands him faces two possibilities: Sign him to a 5-year max contract extension totaling $188 million, or lose him for nothing after a 1-year rental. Sign him to that extension and you'll be paying him $42 million when he's 35.

It's the fact that he's up for - and expects - a $188M contract that makes this a lose/lose scenario IMO. It would suck to trade assets for him and lose him the next season. But it would also suck to sign him to the contract he expects.

 

[hoopsjock]

Of course, replacing CJ's salary with Turner's would require increasing other outgoing salary. Either swapping Aminu for Harkless (probably less attractive to the Wolves), or swapping Trent for Collins (more attractive to MIN). Turner/Aminu/Collins/pick for Butler/Dieng. And yes, I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

As much as I would love to get rid of Turner, who would be our PF? We'd have Nurk, Leonard, Dieng, and Swanigan all of which I would prefer at C.

 

[Pinwheel1]

As much as I would love to get rid of Turner, who would be our PF? We'd have Nurk, Leonard, Dieng, and Swanigan all of which I would prefer at C.

Those guys can cover big PFs while Harkless and Layman could cover stretch 4's?

 

[hoopsjock]

It's the fact that he's up for - and expects - a $188M contract that makes this a lose/lose scenario IMO. It would suck to trade assets for him and lose him the next season. But it would also suck to sign him to the contract he expects.

For me Butler's contract kind of depends. If we contend for a title in the next 3-4 years then I think it would be worth the huge expense in the final couple years.

 

[hoopsjock]

Those guys can cover big PFs while Harkless and Layman could cover stretch 4's?

Aminu's greatest strength is that he can effectively guard both a bigger PF and quicker wings. I also think that Collins will learn to do this as well. Playing a C at PF even against a traditional or bigger team would just get our guards pick and rolled to death.

 

[H.C.]

Aminu's greatest strength is that he can effectively guard both a bigger PF and quicker wings. I also think that Collins will learn to do this as well. Playing a C at PF even against a traditional or bigger team would just get our guards pick and rolled to death.

"

I while I'm not a huge fan of Harkless at the 4.
He is an option to prevent that from happening.
Being that I see Swanigan as a Moe Speights. I don't see him as a defensive option there either.
Nards is a hell no.
I haven't watched Deng much, hell I don't even know if he's played much in the past couple years.
But at one time he was able to play that 4 spot defensively...
Who knows if he's still able to or not. Deng is only 32.

 

[hoopsjock]

"

I while I'm not a huge fan of Harkless at the 4.
He is an option to prevent that from happening.
Being that I see Swanigan as a Moe Speights. I don't see him as a defensive option there either.
Nards is a hell no.
I haven't watched Deng much, hell I don't even know if he's played much in the past couple years.
But at one time he was able to play that 4 spot defensively...
Who knows if he's still able to or not. Deng is only 32.

We're talking about Gorgui Dieng not Luol Deng. I am also super against playing Harkless at the 4, it just hasn't gone very well in the past.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

As much as I would love to get rid of Turner, who would be our PF? We'd have Nurk, Leonard, Dieng, and Swanigan all of which I would prefer at C.

With the roster as is, we'd probably be looking at starting Layman with Swanigan in reserve. But ideally, I'd hope we'd look to trade for a vet PF to round out the starting unit. No idea who, thought. Presumably someone with a Mirotic or Ilyasova type skillset I'd think would be the best fit in that lineup.

 

[hoopsjock]

With the roster as is, we'd probably be looking at starting Layman with Swanigan in reserve. But ideally, I'd hope we'd look to trade for a vet PF to round out the starting unit. No idea who, thought. Presumably someone with a Mirotic or Ilyasova type skillset I'd think would be the best fit in that lineup.

In that scenario Tobias Harris would be sweet but we wouldn't have much left to trade.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

In that scenario Tobias Harris would be sweet but we wouldn't have much left to trade.

Was the first name that came to mind, and the first conclusion as well.

 

[hoopsjock]

Was the first name that came to mind, and the first conclusion as well.

I'm probably missing someone but in terms of young defensive bigs there aren't many players I like better than Collins. Mo Bamba has a chance to be pretty good in that department. Embiid, Capela, and Nurk are good defenders but they are going into their 5th seasons. Losing Collins would be a big blow in the future. I guess it would depend on the other moves made to compensate for losing both him and Aminu before I could get on board with that trade.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'm probably missing someone but in terms of young defensive bigs there aren't many players I like better than Collins. Mo Bamba has a chance to be pretty good in that department. Embiid, Capela, and Nurk are good defenders but they are going into their 5th seasons. Losing Collins would be a big blow in the future. I guess it would depend on the other moves made to compensate for losing both him and Aminu before I could get on board with that trade.

All I'm saying is that I'd take a forward rotation of Butler/Layman/Harkless/Swanigan over Harkless/Aminu/Turner/Collins any day of the week. Butler is so far and away the best player in those groups, it renders all the other members pretty irrelevant.

For me.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

With the roster as is, we'd probably be looking at starting Layman with Swanigan in reserve. But ideally, I'd hope we'd look to trade for a vet PF to round out the starting unit. No idea who, thought. Presumably someone with a Mirotic or Ilyasova type skillset I'd think would be the best fit in that lineup.

One way to get a stopgap at PF is to trade Turner, Harkless, Leonard and Trent plus the draft pick for Butler, Dieng and Tai Gibson. This also balances out the financials.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

One way to get a stopgap at PF is to trade Turner, Harkless, Leonard and Trent plus the draft pick for Butler, Dieng and Tai Gibson. This also balances out the financials.

Don't think Thibs wants to give up Taj, but I agree it would be great for him to come along in any hypothetical Butler deal.

 

[hoopsjock]

All I'm saying is that I'd take a forward rotation of Butler/Layman/Harkless/Swanigan over Harkless/Aminu/Turner/Collins any day of the week. Butler is so far and away the best player in those groups, it renders all the other members pretty irrelevant.

For me.

Looking at some possible names (not necessarily saying that I'd want these guys):

Bobby Portis
Larry Nance JR
Thad Young
James Johnson
DJ Wilson
Lance Thomas
Either Morris Brother
Dwight Powell
Trey Lyles
PJ Tucker

I got sidetracked by the little one while looking but you get the idea. I do agree that having Butler in a lineup is better than without.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

One way to get a stopgap at PF is to trade Turner, Harkless, Leonard and Trent plus the draft pick for Butler, Dieng and Tai Gibson. This also balances out the financials.

Well it wouldn't really balance the financials; we would be taking in $9 million more than what's going out. But it would satisfy financial requirements for a trade.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yazdxp9w

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Don't think Thibs wants to give up Taj, but I agree it would be great for him to come along in any hypothetical Butler deal.

Like I say it would save them $9 million right away. And swapping Dieng for Leonard they save $25 million over three years.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Looking at some possible names (not necessarily saying that I'd want these guys):

Bobby Portis
Larry Nance JR
Thad Young
James Johnson
DJ Wilson
Lance Thomas
Either Morris Brother
Dwight Powell
Trey Lyles
PJ Tucker

I got sidetracked by the little one while looking but you get the idea. I do agree that having Butler in a lineup is better than without.

I'd like Young, Morris, and Tucker from that list. Was also thinking perhaps Marvin Williams.

 

[hoopsjock]

Like I say it would save them $9 million right away. And swapping Dieng for Leonard they save $25 million over three years.

But Gibson and Butler are expiring and Harkless and Turner still have another year so they'd actually be adding a lot more money in this deal after this season.

The other issue is that I also like Gibson at C versus PF so that would almost add to the glut of centers instead of solving the problem.

 

[hoopsjock]

I'd like Young, Morris, and Tucker from that list. Was also thinking perhaps Marvin Williams.

Yeah, I just don't know how to get those guys after giving up a pick and Collins in a Butler trade. If only we had a large TPE at some point that we could've added someone without salary going back to the other team. Boy would that be helpful in this scenario.

Edit: Mirotic could've already been on the team too.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yeah, I just don't know how to get those guys after giving up a pick and Collins in a Butler trade. If only we had a large TPE at some point that we could've added someone without salary going back to the other team. Boy would that be helpful in this scenario.

Edit: Mirotic could've already been on the team too.

Yep, all true.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Looking at some possible names (not necessarily saying that I'd want these guys):

Bobby Portis
Larry Nance JR
Thad Young
James Johnson
DJ Wilson
Lance Thomas
Either Morris Brother
Dwight Powell
Trey Lyles
PJ Tucker

I got sidetracked by the little one while looking but you get the idea. I do agree that having Butler in a lineup is better than without.

Another guy who's quite a bit younger but I think would be a great fit in such a lineup would be Richaun Holmes.

 

[Natebishop3]

Adrian Wojnarowski: ESPN Reporting w/ Zach Lowe: Minnesota’s asking price for Jimmy Butler remains too steep for teams. Minny seeks quality vets/top prospects/future assets/cap relief. Too high a price for interested teams, including Miami. Sources are skeptical of Thibodeau’s desire to make deal.
– via Twitter wojespn
Do they want all four of those things? Anyway, just need to wait them out; owner wants him gone now, doesn't make any difference what Thibs wants.

Quality vet: Turner/Aminu

Prospect: Trent

Future assets: 2019 1st round pick

Cap relief: Aminu and Leonard is one year shorter than Dieng.

 

[hoopsjock]

Another guy who's quite a bit younger but I think would be a great fit in such a lineup would be Richaun Holmes.

See he's yet another guy I see more as a C and wouldn't want as a PF. I do like his game though.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

See he's yet another guy I see more as a C and wouldn't want as a PF. I do like his game though.

I'm curious: what is it about him that causes you to see him as not PF material? Too thick and slow?

 

[hoopsjock]

Quality vet: Turner/Aminu

Prospect: Trent

Future assets: 2019 1st round pick

Cap relief: Aminu and Leonard is one year shorter than Dieng.

Cap relief doesn't really apply here. Without looking it up Turner and Leonard are roughly $28 million and Dieng has about $32 million remaining over two years. That isn't really saving them money, more just moving the money into two years instead of 3. No way they would do that in my opinion.

 

[hoopsjock]

I'm curious: what is it about him that causes you to see him as not PF material? Too thick and slow?

Low BBIQ, poor defender away from the rim, and thinks he can shoot but hasn't really shown a consistent jumper. I actually like Holmes as an energy type C.

 

[Natebishop3]

Cap relief doesn't really apply here. Without looking it up Turner and Leonard are roughly $28 million and Dieng has about $32 million remaining over two years. That isn't really saving them money, more just moving the money into two years instead of 3. No way they would do that in my opinion.

They can't replace Butler with value and expect to also replace his salary with expiring contracts. Turner and Trent account for Butler's contract. They also account for the veteran and prospect checkbox.

Aminu and Leonard are roughly equal to Dieng. They would A) cut his contract by a third after this season, and shorten it by a year. That would be equal to cap relief.

 

[hoopsjock]

They can't replace Butler with value and expect to also replace his salary with expiring contracts. Turner and Trent account for Butler's contract. They also account for the veteran and prospect checkbox.

Aminu and Leonard are roughly equal to Dieng. They would A) cut his contract by a third after this season, and shorten it by a year. That would be equal to cap relief.

Leonard and Turner have negative value. Trying to justify them as cap relief is absurd and every GM feels that way or else they'd have been traded already.

In your scenario you need a 3rd team to not only take Leonard but you'd also have to give that team an asset for doing so.