Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

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Jon said:
1200 posts for something that wont have anything to do with this franchise..... seems legit....
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Even if we don't have a chance in hell of getting Butler, if MIN ends up trading him to MIA (or some other Eastern Conference team), it improves our chances of getting a better seed for the playoffs. Weakening one of our enemies, even if the wound is self-inflicted, is always a good thing.

BNM
 
If I was the wolves owner I'd immediately remove Thibbs GM duties and give those to someone who would carry out my vision, trading Butler.

Stupid to have a long term position filed by an employee with conflicting short term goals.

Although the obvious dysfunction of that franchise proves they are not structured properly.
 
Houston reported to be in hot pursuit. It's more possible than I thought at first. They could trade Brandon Knight's expiring contract for Dieng's bloated three year. Then trade Ben Gordon and Nene' for Butler. Add a draft pick and it's a pretty nice package.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Houston reported to be in hot pursuit. It's more possible than I thought at first. They could trade Brandon Knight's expiring contract for Dieng's bloated three year. Then trade Ben Gordon and Nene' for Butler. Add a draft pick and it's a pretty nice package.
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Knight has two years left on his deal. If Houston is realistic, so is Portland.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Houston reported to be in hot pursuit. It's more possible than I thought at first. They could trade Brandon Knight's expiring contract for Dieng's bloated three year. Then trade Ben Gordon and Nene' for Butler. Add a draft pick and it's a pretty nice package.
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Eric Gordon is decent but with no young talent and a late 1st round pick this isn't a very good deal for Minnesota. I'd be pissed if they made that trade.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Houston reported to be in hot pursuit. It's more possible than I thought at first. They could trade Brandon Knight's expiring contract for Dieng's bloated three year. Then trade Ben Gordon and Nene' for Butler. Add a draft pick and it's a pretty nice package.
Click to expand...

I think you mean Eric Gordon, not Ben.

Knight cannot be traded until October 31 (nor can Marquese Chriss). Even if they could, I'm not sure Marquese Chriss meets anyone's definition of a "top prospect". Plus, any HOU 1st round pick in the next three years, especially with the addition of Butler, is likely to be in the 29-30 range.

So yes, POR can easily beat that package, if they choose to do so.

BNM
 
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Thibs and Butler really screwed this up I think. Butler finally requesting a trade right at the start of camps means if he gets traded he’s going to be behind on schemes and chemistry. Thibs had to know of the rift in the locker-room before all of us did and probably shouldve been a bit more aggressive making sure it either got taken care of or changes were made when he had more leverage.
 
hoopsjock said:
Leonard and Turner have negative value. Trying to justify them as cap relief is absurd and every GM feels that way or else they'd have been traded already.

In your scenario you need a 3rd team to not only take Leonard but you'd also have to give that team an asset for doing so.
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Where in the hell did I say that Turner was cap relief?
 
People are getting hung up on the cap relief. Nowhere did Woj say that cap relief was their number one priority. They said it was a stipulation, but he also mentioned quality veterans, prospects, and future assets. That's four very different things, and they aren't always congruent.

Turner = veteran
Trent = prospect
Draft pick = future asset
Aminu = cap relief

Leonard is on a shorter and cheaper contract than Dieng, so it's possible they would consider that to be cap relief as well. But I want to highlight that nowhere did Woj say that cap relief was the paramount objective in their trade negotiations.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Where in the hell did I say that Turner was cap relief?
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Natebishop3 said:
People are getting hung up on the cap relief. Nowhere did Woj say that cap relief was their number one priority. They said it was a stipulation, but he also mentioned quality veterans, prospects, and future assets. That's four very different things, and they aren't always congruent.

Turner = veteran
Trent = prospect
Draft pick = future asset
Aminu = cap relief

Leonard is on a shorter and cheaper contract than Dieng, so it's possible they would consider that to be cap relief as well. But I want to highlight that nowhere did Woj say that cap relief was the paramount objective in their trade negotiations.
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That isn't even close to what is meant by cap relief. I thought I broke it down for you pretty clearly.

Going to Minnesota (Turner, Leonard, Aminu, and Trent): Salary for this season is $36,259,928

Going to Portland (Butler and Dieng): Salary for this season is $35,616,566

So for immediate purposes they are actually adding to their payroll for this year. With me so far?

Minnesota future salary owed because of this trade (Turner, Leonard, Trent): $32,973,784

Portland future salary owed because of this trade (Dieng): $33,516,853

So in future salary the Wolves save a little over $500,000. If you add all the contracts in your trade the Wolves are actually taking on MORE salary than going out. You can't just ignore Turner's contract because you consider him the "vet" part of the trade. I'm sorry but that completely fails to give any cap relief.
 
Natebishop3 said:
People are getting hung up on the cap relief. Nowhere did Woj say that cap relief was their number one priority. They said it was a stipulation, but he also mentioned quality veterans, prospects, and future assets. That's four very different things, and they aren't always congruent.

Turner = veteran
Trent = prospect
Draft pick = future asset
Aminu = cap relief

Leonard is on a shorter and cheaper contract than Dieng, so it's possible they would consider that to be cap relief as well. But I want to highlight that nowhere did Woj say that cap relief was the paramount objective in their trade negotiations.
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Also, no one is saying that cap relief is their #1 priority. Heck, it might be least important part to that equation for all we know. However I can guarantee you that they aren't going to take on both Leonard and Turner in the same deal unless there is a much bigger reward for doing so. There has been a few ideas in here as to how Minnesota can get a bit of all 4 things they want, so it is possible to consider all 4 as priorities.
 
The longer this drags out, the clearer it becomes that someone is going to get Butler for below market value. When the story first broke, I was all for a Butler/C.J. swap. Not any more. I think Butler can be had for less.

There is clearly a power struggle going on in MIN and Thibs is going to lose. In fact, he already has. It started on the court and in the locker room and has now worked its way up to the top. I think that list we are seeing is a combination of what Thibs wants (quality veteran(s)) and what Glen Taylor wants (top prostect(s), future assets and possibly cap relief). Glen Taylor is going to win this battle. He already has, If Thibs was still in control, Butler wouldn't be available.

I think Taylor cares a whole lot less about "quality veteran(s)" than the other three items on the list. The only reason they are even required is to make salaries match, and the sooner they expire the better. Taylor wants to go young and build around KAT and Wiggins. He knows there aren't any "quality veterans" available that are going to have MIN competing with GSW or HOU any time soon. Even with Butler, before the injury, they weren't close last year. So, he wants to go completely young and build for the future.

I think Taylor's priorities are the only ones that matter and I believe they are:

1) Top Prospects - by a wide margin. He's looking for the 3rd member of his Big 3 to go with KAT and Wiggins.

2) Future Assets - obviously a future lottery pick would improve his odds of finding that 3rd piece, but no one is going to give him one. So, a 1st round pick or two would be nice, but I think he'd also like a couple 2nd round picks. They don't get guaranteed contracts and they can help you fill out the back end of your roster on the cheap.

3) Cap relief, both short term and long term. KAT and Wiggins got PAID. So, it would be nice to have some cushion available for when that next big piece is coming off their rookie deal.

4) Quality Veterans - a distant last. The only reason any would even be required would be to make salaries match.

So, how much are you willing to mortgage the future to get Butler? We have at least three young prospects that I think have value around the league: Collins, Simons and Trent Jr. Which of these would you be willing to give up. Would you be willing to give up 2 of the 3? If so, which two? Baldwin is also a young player with promise, but I doubt if he's considered a "top prospect", plus we don't hold his Bird Rights So, that makes him less desirable to MIN.

We own all of our future 1st round picks, but unfortunately we don't own our 2019 2nd round pick and owe BRK our top 55 protected 2020 2nd round pick. Since that pick is conditional, I believe we could include it in a trade with MIN (our 2020 2nd round pick goes to MIN if it's in the 31-55 range and to BRK if it's in the 56 - 60 range). So, how many picks would you be willing to give up? I say no more than one first combined with one or two seconds.

Cap relief means giving up Aminu, our only expiring contract of any size. Of course, there is also talk of taking back Dieng. I'd be willing to do that. He's overpaid, but he's a decent back up big man, and we're already short of those. If absorbing his contract gets the deal done, do it.

No specific Trade Machine proposals yet, just thinking about what MIN REALLY wants and what kind of package we could offer them.

BNM
 
When is Minnesota gonna quit bullshitting around?
Adrian Wojnarowski: “I know Minnesota was telling teams last week, ‘We’ve got an offer we really, really like. We’ve got an offer we’d do.’ Nobody believed them. Like, nobody believed them. And part of the problem for that Minnesota front office is, one GM/executive said to me, ‘In normal circumstances, they’re the most difficult in the league to deal with. In normal circumstances, they’re usually very unrealistic about what they can get back from you in a deal. Under these circumstances? They’re exponentially more difficult to deal with.’ And I wonder how that cat-and-mouse game plays out when you’re trying to create a marketplace for a player.”
– viaitunes.apple.com
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
When is Minnesota gonna quit bullshitting around?
Adrian Wojnarowski: “I know Minnesota was telling teams last week, ‘We’ve got an offer we really, really like. We’ve got an offer we’d do.’ Nobody believed them. Like, nobody believed them. And part of the problem for that Minnesota front office is, one GM/executive said to me, ‘In normal circumstances, they’re the most difficult in the league to deal with. In normal circumstances, they’re usually very unrealistic about what they can get back from you in a deal. Under these circumstances? They’re exponentially more difficult to deal with.’ And I wonder how that cat-and-mouse game plays out when you’re trying to create a marketplace for a player.”
– viaitunes.apple.com
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They’re holding out for Evan Turner. It’s so obvious.
 
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