Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

[Sarni]

So they apparently turned down a deal that included Josh Richardson, Bam Adebayo and a first round pick. I don’t really expect Miami to offer them much more so it’s probably just a question of details now as I don’t expect any other team to beat Miami’s offer either and he seems intent on moving there. Also for Miami this is the only chance they are going to get to add a star to their current roster as their salary is pretty bloated.

Pretty sure Butler will be playing for Miami this year.

 

[Scalma]

So they apparently turned down a deal that included Josh Richardson, Bam Adebayo and a first round pick.

If this was the offer it’s missing a pretty significant piece since it wouldn’t work as constructed.

 

[julius]

So they apparently turned down a deal that included Josh Richardson, Bam Adebayo and a first round pick. I don’t really expect Miami to offer them much more so it’s probably just a question of details now as I don’t expect any other team to beat Miami’s offer either and he seems intent on moving there. Also for Miami this is the only chance they are going to get to add a star to their current roster as their salary is pretty bloated.

Pretty sure Butler will be playing for Miami this year.

Hold on, Miami was in the running and their offer was Richardon, Adebayo and a first rounder, but according to some fans, the Blazers "had" to include CJ?

I guess thats why none of us are GM's.

 

[hoopsjock]

So they apparently turned down a deal that included Josh Richardson, Bam Adebayo and a first round pick. I don’t really expect Miami to offer them much more so it’s probably just a question of details now as I don’t expect any other team to beat Miami’s offer either and he seems intent on moving there. Also for Miami this is the only chance they are going to get to add a star to their current roster as their salary is pretty bloated.

Pretty sure Butler will be playing for Miami this year.

I'm seeing that they turned down a package that included Josh Richardson and a 1st, not Bam.

 

[BonesJones]

Hold on, Miami was in the running and their offer was Richardon, Adebayo and a first rounder, but according to some fans, the Blazers "had" to include CJ?

I guess thats why none of us are GM's.

What better offer could we make without giving up CJ?

 

[TBpup]

What better offer could we make without giving up CJ?

Turner...because Thibs loves him!

 

[Boob-No-More]

So they apparently turned down a deal that included Josh Richardson, Bam Adebayo and a first round pick. I don’t really expect Miami to offer them much more so it’s probably just a question of details now as I don’t expect any other team to beat Miami’s offer either and he seems intent on moving there. Also for Miami this is the only chance they are going to get to add a star to their current roster as their salary is pretty bloated.

Pretty sure Butler will be playing for Miami this year.

I'm actually hoping this is how it all shakes out. So far, MIA has offered a hot plate of shit, but apparently no one else is willing to give them anything better than a below average wing, a back up for KAT and a late 1st round pick for Butler. This makes MIN worse AND moves Butler to the East where he won't help any of the other Western Conference teams we will be battling against for playoff seedings. Short of us getting Butler without giving up Dame, C.J. or Nurk, this is the best possible outcome. Plus, since MIA is on Butler's "list" he's likely to resign there, rather than go ring chasing with LeBron in LA.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Turner...because Thibs loves him!

LOL!

BNM

 

[julius]

What better offer could we make without giving up CJ?

Moe, Aminu, Collins and a first? I don't know, my point wasn't that the Blazers could do better, but that they didn't HAVE to trade CJ (since none of the players that were potentially traded are on his level).

 

[BonesJones]

Moe, Aminu, Collins and a first? I don't know, my point wasn't that the Blazers could do better, but that they didn't HAVE to trade CJ (since none of the players that were potentially traded are on his level).

That's not better. Adebeyo has more trade value than all 3 of them, and Richardson definitely does. Its actuallu arguable that Richardson is near the same level of player as CJ since hes an elite defensive player and a very solid iffensively player.

 

[KingSpeed]

View attachment 22674 View attachment 22673

Oops.

How is that (with no link) more accurate than the link that I posted?

 

[Scalma]

How is that (with no link) more accurate than the link that I posted?

I didn’t post a link because it’s behind a paywall. Reported by Shams and the wolves beat writer today.

https://theathletic.com/578109/2018...innesota-tom-thibodeau-trade-request-sources/

 

[Boob-No-More]

Let the fireworks begin! Man, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that locker room. Butler hasn't practiced with the team, he has made it very clear, multiple times, that he doesn't want to be there, and as far as his teammates are concerned, the feeling is mutual.

Today's word is "distraction". Can you say "distraction"? I knew you could. This word brought to you by Tom Thibodeau.

BNM

 

[Propagandist]

Let the fireworks begin! Man, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that locker room. Butler hasn't practiced with the team, he has made it very clear, multiple times, that he doesn't want to be there, and as far as his teammates are concerned, the feeling is mutual.

Today's word is "distraction". Can you say "distraction"? I knew you could. This word brought to you by Tom Thibodeau.

BNM

I'm uncomfortable just imagining how uncomfortable it will be.

 

[Boob-No-More]

That's not better. Adebeyo has more trade value than all 3 of them, and Richardson definitely does. Its actuallu arguable that Richardson is near the same level of player as CJ since hes an elite defensive player and a very solid iffensively player.

You are seriously overvaluing both Adebayo and Richardson. Adebayo is a decent back up center right now and has the upside to possibly one day, be an average starter. Compare his rookie numbers to Ed Davis' rookie numbers. They are virtually identical. Yeah Bam was younger, but I'm really not seeing a who lot of untapped potential. He isn't elite at anything and in today's NBA can only play one position - center, which is the least valuable position these days, especially for a guy who isn't an elite rim protector. His only real value is that he's young and cheap, but the Wolves are set for the next decade at center with KAT, so BAM would be looking at 15 MPG as his back up.

Josh Richardson is not an elite defender and not even close to the same level as C.J. He has never made any all defense team or gotten a single vote for DPOY. If you think he's an elite defender, you have a very loose definition of the word elite, and if he is, you could say the same thing about both Aminu and Turner. Fact is, none of them are elite defenders, they are all good defenders, but that's it.

And, Richardson is below average offensively. He started 81 games and SF and averaged 0ver 33 MPG. He got the bulk of MIA's minutes at SF, and SF was MIA's weakest position in terms of both NET points and NET PER. In both cases, they gave up more than they got at SF and Josh Richardson was the one playing most of those minutes:



Richardson is a good, but nowhere near elite, defender, and a below average offensive player. You could make a case that he's a little better than Aminu overall, but he also happens to play the same position as the other 22-year old MIN signed to a max extension. So, like Bam backing up KAT, Richardson will primarily be backing up Wiggins. He could also play some SG, but it really isn't his best position and if he is MIN's starting SG, that's a HUGE dropoff from Jimmy Butler.

Basically, MIN would be getting a below average wing and a young back up center for a 4 time all star, 4 time second team all defense and 2 time all NBA 3rd team player. But, if that's all MIN can get for him, I'd be totally cool with that. It would all but guarantee MIN would not be in contention for a playoff spot in the West this season. Anything that makes them weaker helps us.

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You are seriously overvaluing both Adebayo and Richardson. Adebayo is a decent back up center right now and has the upside to possibly one day, be an average starter. Compare his rookie numbers to Ed Davis' rookie numbers. They are virtually identical. Yeah Bam was younger, but I'm really not seeing a who lot of untapped potential. He isn't elite at anything and in today's NBA can only play one position - center, which is the least valuable position these days, especially for a guy who isn't an elite rim protector. His only real value is that he's young and cheap, but the Wolves are set for the next decade at center with KAT, so BAM would be looking at 15 MPG as his back up.

Josh Richardson is not an elite defender and not even close to the same level as C.J. He has never made any all defense team or gotten a single vote for DPOY. If you think he's an elite defender, you have a very loose definition of the word elite, and if he is, you could say the same thing about both Aminu and Turner. Fact is, none of them are elite defenders, they are all good defenders, but that's it.

And, Richardson is below average offensively. He started 81 games and SF and averaged 0ver 33 MPG. He got the bulk of MIA's minutes at SF, and SF was MIA's weakest position in terms of both NET points and NET PER. In both cases, they gave up more than they got at SF and Josh Richardson was the one playing most of those minutes:

View attachment 22677

Richardson is a good, but nowhere near elite, defender, and a below average offensive player. You could make a case that he's a little better than Aminu overall, but he also happens to play the same position as the other 22-year old MIN signed to a max extension. So, like Bam backing up KAT, Richardson will primarily be backing up Wiggins. He could also play some SG, but it really isn't his best position and if he is MIN's starting SG, that's a HUGE dropoff from Jimmy Butler.

Basically, MIN would be getting a below average wing and a young back up center for a 4 time all star, 4 time second team all defense and 2 time all NBA 3rd team player. But, if that's all MIN can get for him, I'd be totally cool with that. It would all but guarantee MIN would not be in contention for a playoff spot in the West this season. Anything that makes them weaker helps us.

BNM

I listen to the starters (who are not as good as they were before they got into the NBA Fold), but they were talking about how much they just love watching Richardson play defense. So he mught be over valueing Richardsons defense a tiny bit, but he’s not alone in that. Also I think his defense is pretty good!

 

[RR7]

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Jimmy’s technically injured right? Could he pull a kawhi and just be too ‘hurt’ to play all year?

 

[Boob-No-More]

I listen to the starters (who are not as good as they were before they got into the NBA Fold), but they were talking about how much they just love watching Richardson play defense. So he mught be over valueing Richardsons defense a tiny bit, but he’s not alone in that. Also I think his defense is pretty good!

Meh, I know it's hard to measure defense statistically, but Richardson's DBPM was 1.5 last season, the best of his career. Aminu's was 1.9 and Harkless' was 2.0.

I also know that DRtg is team dependent, but MIA was 7th in the league team defensive efficiency at 106.3 and POR was 8th at 106.4, about as close as two teams can be defensively. Aminu had a DRtg of 105, Harkless was at 106, and so was Richardson. Again, when I think of Josh Richardson, I think "meh". Better than average on defense, below average on offense. His career best PER of 13.6 suits him.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Jimmy’s technically injured right? Could he pull a kawhi and just be too ‘hurt’ to play all year?

I'd be cool with that. MIN would not get the benefit of having Jimmy on the floor (we all saw how terrible they were defensively without him last year) nor would they have the benefit of having his replacements, and then unlike SAS, who actually got an all star and a decent young big for Kawhi, MIN would watch Jimmy walk for nothing.

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Meh, I know it's hard to measure defense statistically, but Richardson's DBPM was 1.5 last season, the best of his career. Aminu's was 1.9 and Harkless' was 2.0.

I also know that DRtg is team dependent, but MIA was 7th in the league team defensive efficiency at 106.3 and POR was 8th at 106.4, about as close as two teams can be defensively. Aminu had a DRtg of 105, Harkless was at 106, and so was Richardson. Again, when I think of Josh Richardson, I think "meh". Better than average on defense, below average on offense. His career best PER of 13.6 suits him.

BNM

Yeah Honestly thats about how I see richardon he’s a decent player. He plays with good energy, I bet we’d like him if he played in portland just because of the energy he plays with.

 

[Sarni]

If this was the offer it’s missing a pretty significant piece since it wouldn’t work as constructed.

It did include someone else as a salary filler but that is not mentioned. I think it may have been Waiters or Tyler Johnson.

 

[Sarni]

I'm seeing that they turned down a package that included Josh Richardson and a 1st, not Bam.

Bam wasn't mentioned in some reports but Miami fans on a forum I saw seemed convinced they were willing to include him as well.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Jimmy’s technically injured right? Could he pull a kawhi and just be too ‘hurt’ to play all year?

If he did that I think the Timberwolves should be able to take some of his pay away. The NBA needs to make the NBA more of an owners league and not just let the players run by all over it.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yeah Honestly thats about how I see richardon he’s a decent player. He plays with good energy, I bet we’d like him if he played in portland just because of the energy he plays with.

Energy is nice, but results are nicer. Yeah, I'm not trying to be too hard on Richardson, but he's at best, an average player, not the kind of return you'd expect for a player like Jimmy Butler, under normal circumstances. Thankfully, through their own incompetence, MIN has made sure they will get way below market value for Butler. Good. After making the playoffs for the 1st time in 14 seasons, MIN looks like they will be right back where they usually are - on the outside looking in.

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

You are seriously overvaluing both Adebayo and Richardson. Adebayo is a decent back up center right now and has the upside to possibly one day, be an average starter. Compare his rookie numbers to Ed Davis' rookie numbers. They are virtually identical. Yeah Bam was younger, but I'm really not seeing a who lot of untapped potential. He isn't elite at anything and in today's NBA can only play one position - center, which is the least valuable position these days, especially for a guy who isn't an elite rim protector. His only real value is that he's young and cheap, but the Wolves are set for the next decade at center with KAT, so BAM would be looking at 15 MPG as his back up.

Josh Richardson is not an elite defender and not even close to the same level as C.J. He has never made any all defense team or gotten a single vote for DPOY. If you think he's an elite defender, you have a very loose definition of the word elite, and if he is, you could say the same thing about both Aminu and Turner. Fact is, none of them are elite defenders, they are all good defenders, but that's it.

And, Richardson is below average offensively. He started 81 games and SF and averaged 0ver 33 MPG. He got the bulk of MIA's minutes at SF, and SF was MIA's weakest position in terms of both NET points and NET PER. In both cases, they gave up more than they got at SF and Josh Richardson was the one playing most of those minutes:

View attachment 22677

Richardson is a good, but nowhere near elite, defender, and a below average offensive player. You could make a case that he's a little better than Aminu overall, but he also happens to play the same position as the other 22-year old MIN signed to a max extension. So, like Bam backing up KAT, Richardson will primarily be backing up Wiggins. He could also play some SG, but it really isn't his best position and if he is MIN's starting SG, that's a HUGE dropoff from Jimmy Butler.

Basically, MIN would be getting a below average wing and a young back up center for a 4 time all star, 4 time second team all defense and 2 time all NBA 3rd team player. But, if that's all MIN can get for him, I'd be totally cool with that. It would all but guarantee MIN would not be in contention for a playoff spot in the West this season. Anything that makes them weaker helps us.

BNM

You're wrong but this is too long-winded to easily reply too. Your segments are made for news, not conversation.

 

[Sarni]

Richardson is a good player, he's a better asset than anything we have bar Dame and CJ. That's the worst thing about our roster, it's not even that they are all overpaid, it's that they have almost no value in the market. Even fairly good player like Harkless has neutral value at best. We got nothing to build trade offers around. Even Bucks could offer someone like Brogdon and immediately beat any offer we can come up with.

 

[blue9]

Hold on, Miami was in the running and their offer was Richardon, Adebayo and a first rounder, but according to some fans, the Blazers "had" to include CJ?

I guess thats why none of us are GM's.

There are always people who claim that in order to trade for a star you have to send out an equivalent player, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I can't even recall a trade where teams swapped high-level players. It's almost always a star for a bunch of filler, with the hope that one of those players will actually turn into something useful someday.
The closest is Kawhi/DeRozen. But both teams were in a bind. Any other examples?

 

[BBert]

If the Blazers aren't going after Butler, I have to think it's because of some knowledge the Blazers have about Butler's attitude/locker room presence that the Blazers have concluded make him poison.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

There are always people who claim that in order to trade for a star you have to send out an equivalent player, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I can't even recall a trade where teams swapped high-level players. It's almost always a star for a bunch of filler, with the hope that one of those players will actually turn into something useful someday.
The closest is Kawhi/DeRozen. But both teams were in a bind. Any other examples?

Irving for Thomas (who was perceived as a high-level player at the time).