Trade Joe Ingles - Arrival and Departure

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WesleyMatthews said:
I don't get why this upset you.

If he signs for a cheap deal his cap hold is gone but we keep his bird rights so it doesn't hurt the cap.

There is no way we keep his cap hold on the books if there is a better use of the cap space. If we are doing nothing with the cap might as well have his hold there or even explore using him in a sign and trade.
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bird rights avail you the opportunity to go above the cap to sign a guy.

but to maintain birdrights, you have to consider his caphold. Ingles' caphold is ~19.5 million. And not renouncing that would essentially put us above the cap before we make any moves this summer.

It's a pointless comment that he made to dupe fans/media and no one called him on it.
 
illmatic99 said:
bird rights avail you the opportunity to go above the cap to sign a guy.

but to maintain birdrights, you have to consider his caphold. Ingles' caphold is ~19.5 million. And not renouncing that would essentially put us above the cap before we make any moves this summer.

It's a pointless comment that he made to dupe fans/media and no one called him on it.
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I know that. I'm saying we might be able to get Ingles to sign with us instead of elsewhere since we can offer him bird rights on a cheap contract. Thats one possible use.

Second possible use is sending ingles out in a sign and trade such as to Utah or another team that actually wants him. He doesn't have a cap hold in that case.

Third possible use is if we stay above the cap, then he could be in a sign and trade basically for salary matching, possibly deep into the summer.

Fourth possibility is we actually need the cap space before this is sorted, then we just renounce him.

Your solely focused on possibility #4. Heck maybe that is what happens. But there could be these other benefits, so what Joe said was perfectly fine.

Now I agree these are all very small potential benefits, so if we sent out starters as in the Clippers trade I'd be furious. But since it doesn't really cost the team anything its fine to have them.
 
illmatic99 said:
bird rights avail you the opportunity to go above the cap to sign a guy.

but to maintain birdrights, you have to consider his caphold. Ingles' caphold is ~19.5 million. And not renouncing that would essentially put us above the cap before we make any moves this summer.

It's a pointless comment that he made to dupe fans/media and no one called him on it.
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I guess I also look at it that Joe doesn't need to explain the detail of the salary cap with every one of his comments. You and me and some others really know this stuff well, but 98 % of people don't know it or don't care.

Yes we could have big cap space this summer.

Yes we could use Ingles bird rights.

Will many fans and media not understand how one of those could impact the other? Yes. But Joe doesn't need to explain cap details every time he has a news conference.
 
illmatic99 said:
bird rights avail you the opportunity to go above the cap to sign a guy.

but to maintain birdrights, you have to consider his caphold. Ingles' caphold is ~19.5 million. And not renouncing that would essentially put us above the cap before we make any moves this summer.

It's a pointless comment that he made to dupe fans/media and no one called him on it.
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Theoretically, it's an advantage in a sign and trade scenario. But yeah, not likely.
 
illmatic99 said:
the pau gasol of 2022.

great.
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Gasol had multiple health issues in the years before he even got to Portland. Ingles has been one of the most durable players in the league and had no major injuries in his entire career until this one. And it was a clean tear.

Anyways, have you seen this summers free agent class? I can count the attractive FAs that fit our needs/style of play on one hand, and that’s probably generous.
 
Could we see Ingles signed to a one year deal above the MLE, maybe with a club option? If nothing else it would be an attractive contract to be used in a trade at the deadline. We don’t project to have many (any?) of those right now.
 
nah there's no tampering here at all and it's fully legal. Ingles retweeted this.

 
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illmatic99 said:
nah there's no tampering here at all and it's fully legal. Ingles retweeted this.

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Whats wrong with this statement?

The NBA has been pretty clear that players can't be charged with tampering.

If it was a GM, owner, or coach saying this that is very different.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Whats wrong with this statement?

The NBA has been pretty clear that players can't be charged with tampering.

If it was a GM, owner, or coach saying this that is very different.
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Ingles also only retweeted it to show Gobert appreciation. Not everything is a conspiracy.

 
illmatic99 said:
Cronin referencing his bird rights got my blood boiling. Did no one yesterday think about asking him about Ingles' 20 mil caphold completely torpedoing this supposed "flexibility" he touted?
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No one in that media room took Joe seriously on that point. No one here should either.
 
Scalma said:
two mistakes.
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Joe said, "we value Ingles' cap hold". He also said when he first took the job, that "our books are good" No one took that seriously either.

It doesn't mean they might not re-sign him, but the cap-hold part is inconsequential to what they are doing and certainly not something valuable.

But as always, appreciate the well thought out, gotcha style post.
 
TBpup said:
Joe said, "we value Ingles' cap hold". He also said when he first took the job, that "our books are good" No one took that seriously either.

It doesn't mean they might not re-sign him, but the cap-hold part is inconsequential to what they are doing and certainly not something valuable.

But as always, appreciate the well thought out, gotcha style post.
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The full quote was “we really like him AND we value his bird rights”

The quote about the books was in response to a question about their cap, what was he supposed to say? But this quote about his bird rights he brought up himself. Not really the same thing.

you’re welcome.
 
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I played basketball against Joe Ingles’ high school, but well before he attended it. I later moved about a five minute walk from his high school, and voted in a couple of elections there whilst he was enrolled. This is probably pretty common stuff for you guys, but due to there being so few Aussies in the NBA it feels weird having someone so close to home on my team; not that I think he’ll ever play for us.
 


I think it’s interesting people are just completely dismissing the idea that he’ll be here next year. Utah is a tax team, Portland can offer a lot more money. They seem to like him and could probably spend the next few months recruiting him as he rehabs. He fills a need. The free agency class sucks. His contract can be used in a trade even if he doesn’t return to form. I dunno if I’d say it’s likely, but I like the Blazers chances. If he was expecting to just go back to Utah in a couple months I don’t think he would’ve bothered writing all those things that seemed more like a goodbye than anything.
 
Ingles is a fighter and seems to take no shit. Portland does need a guy with an f u attitude. An oppenent you hate but a teammate you love. How will his game be affecyed by age and injury? Not an expert but I would think not all that much. If the price is right and Dame likes him, I am all for it.
 
if he's not going to be ready till about this time next season, Blazers should not give him more than a minimum. And maybe not even that
 
wizenheimer said:
if he's not going to be ready till about this time next season, Blazers should not give him more than a minimum. And maybe not even that
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the blazers gave an injured Hood 20M, and they wouldn’t have gotten Powell without it (whether the Powell trade was good is another debate)

There’s more value in giving Ingles mid tier money on a short term contract. Minimum guys have limited trade value.

btw Ingles should be ready to go at or near the beginning of next season. If he’s out til February something went wrong with his recovery.
 
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Ingles, the runner-up for Sixth Man of the Year last season who has been an essential role player during his eight-year Jazz tenure, insists that he will continue to be a quality contributor after his comeback.

"Literally no doubt," Ingles told ESPN. "I know probably everybody says that when they're going through this. A few days post-injury, people might think I'm a little bit crazy. But you look at people who have been through this. The MRI was a little bit of a win, I guess, with it just being my ACL.

"Then the other part of it -- and we joke about it -- is my game. My game has never been based on athleticism, above the rim or anything like that. I'm not writing off what this surgery is and what the rehab looks like, but everyone around the league knows how I play and what I can do."
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...e-ingles-insists-career-continue-acl-recovery
 
The problem is he looked washed before the injury. It’s literally the reason why they wanted Covington, he was giving them nothing.

Add to that his age and injury, no thanks. I can’t believe they’re thinking about this guy as anything other than a salary dump.
 
Freshtown said:
The problem is he looked washed before the injury. It’s literally the reason why they wanted Covington, he was giving them nothing.

Add to that his age and injury, no thanks. I can’t believe they’re thinking about this guy as anything other than a salary dump.
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his numbers this season were good until he started playing thru a sprained ankle in January.

Oct/Nov: 37.5% from three
December: 37.9%
January: 19.6%

That’s so drastic you almost have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Lol ingles agent is Bartlestein. I doubt his relationship with the Blazers was limited to Olshey, so got that going for us too.
 
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