John Lund's "Inside Source" on Miller/Winning

[PapaG]

I was busy closing a deal yesterday (finally) so I couldn't waste most of my "work" day here, but while in the car I was listening to John Lund.

Lund claimed that a source in the Blazer organization told him Miller would be moved because there is a general feeling within the organization that 'Miller has gotten too comfortable with not winning as an NBA player', to paraphrase what was said. Lund covered Miller while Miller was in SLC in college, and apparently got to know him somewhat while covering the Ute team that made the NCAA title game. Lund didn't really comment on what he was told in terms of giving his own opinion; he said he was just relaying something that somebody within the organization told him.

I found it interesting, maybe because it kind of falls in line with my own thoughts on Miller. While Roy has been bashed for not "changing his game", even when he was healthy last season, Miller never really took any heat for not being willing to change his own game by being an uptempo guard off of the bench.

 

[mxracer741]

I have never questions millers ability to win ball games.. He was stellar in the playoffs last year. Pretty much won that first game for us.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I was busy closing a deal yesterday (finally) so I couldn't waste most of my "work" day here, but while in the car I was listening to John Lund.

Lund claimed that a source in the Blazer organization told him Miller would be moved because there is a general feeling within the organization that 'Miller has gotten too comfortable with not winning as an NBA player', to paraphrase what was said. Lund covered Miller while Miller was in SLC in college, and apparently got to know him somewhat while covering the Ute team that made the NCAA title game. Lund didn't really comment on what he was told in terms of giving his own opinion; he said he was just relaying something that somebody within the organization told him.

I found it interesting, maybe because it kind of falls in line with my own thoughts on Miller. While Roy has been bashed for not "changing his game", even when he was healthy last season, Miller never really took any heat for not being willing to change his own game by being an uptempo guard off of the bench.

I heard that yesterday also and thought it was complete BS.

 

[PapaG]

I have never questions millers ability to win ball games.. He was stellar in the playoffs last year. Pretty much won that first game for us.

He was complete crap after Game One of that series. Like worse than Steve Blake bad, comparatively, from the previous season, even with Game One.

 

[oldguy]

But it lines up nicely with PapaG's distaste for Dre.

Go Blazers

 

[PapaG]

I heard that yesterday also and thought it was complete BS.

Could be. Then again, after 11 seasons, I'd think a guy might want to try something new on a team that won 54 games the previous season. Instead, he sulked around and forced his way into the line-up, and a team that should have been a Top 3 seed tied for 6th.

Maybe there is something to it?

 

[THE HCP]

I was busy closing a deal yesterday (finally) so I couldn't waste most of my "work" day here,

Interesting that you would call filling my gas tank and washing my windows, "Closing a Deal".

 

[PapaG]

But it lines up nicely with PapaG's distaste for Dre.

Go Blazers

Yeah, that's what I said. Thanks for being redundant. Now, go bash on Roy some more.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Hasn't Nate also gotten comfortable with not winning in the playoffs then?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Yeah I would call bullshit on this. I think his quiet nature is confusing some that he doesn't care. He is too much of a professional not to do what ever it takes to win. I would not doubt that all the injuries with this team have gotten him down as I am sure he had hoped to contend for a title, but he will be traded for two reasons. his age and his potential ending contract. Not because he is comfortable with losing.

 

[PapaG]

Interesting that you would call filling my gas tank and washing my windows, "Closing a Deal".

I never would have guessed that you drove a Pinto!

 

[PapaG]

Hasn't Nate also gotten comfortable with not winning in the playoffs then?

Nate doesn't have a contract for next season.

Plus, Nate has won in the playoffs, as both a player and a coach.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Could be. Then again, after 11 seasons, I'd think a guy might want to try something new on a team that won 54 games the previous season. Instead, he sulked around and forced his way into the line-up, and a team that should have been a Top 3 seed tied for 6th.

Maybe there is something to it?

He was the best point guard on the team last year.

He's now what, 15th on the all time assist leaders list?

More importantly, look at his history in Philly. Those teams sucked but he got them to the playoffs. He may have not gotten them out of the first round but those teams sucked balls. Hell even his last season he took Orlando to 7 games and Orlando went on to play for the championship.

But more importantly a player who doesn't care about winning means he doesn't care about playing. 632 consecutive games means he cares.

 

[Ed O]

But more importantly a player who doesn't care about winning means he doesn't care about playing. 632 consecutive games means he cares.

Yeah, I don't understand. He doesn't care about winning, but he cares about playing?

I suppose he could be so self-centered that he just wants to boost his own stats so he plays every game he possibly could, but I find that unlikely.

Ed O.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Yeah, I don't understand. He doesn't care about winning, but he cares about playing?

I suppose he could be so self-centered that he just wants to boost his own stats so he plays every game he possibly could, but I find that unlikely.

Ed O.

But if he were self-centered he wouldn't be here - http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/assists

 

[PapaG]

He's now what, 15th on the all time assist leaders list?

I was out of town when that happened, and it did surprise me, but when I found out it was Muggsy Bogues that he passed to get to 15th, I have to admit it made it seem less impressive to me, because I don't have Bogues even on my radar as an all-time PG. Of course, he too struggled as a starting PG to win in the playoffs, although he did get out of the first round one time more than Miller has thus far.

632 consecutive games means he cares.

I agree with that, but I don't think that Lund would just make up the quote, do you? Perception can be more important than reality, unfortunately, and maybe that's the case with Miller and some people within the organization.

 

[Ed O]

But if he were self-centered he wouldn't be here - http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/assists

Sure he could be. He knows he can't shoot, but he's a gifted passer. A player can be selfish in terms of caring more about assists, IMO, than wins.

I don't think it's the case with Miller, but it could be the case.

Ed O.

 

[Natebishop3]

That Miller is a bum. We should trade him.

 

[RR7]

He was complete crap after Game One of that series. Like worse than Steve Blake bad, comparatively, from the previous season, even with Game One.

He shot worse, that's about it. Of course, Miller was covered by Phoenix's best defender, and the focus of their efforts, while Blake was a spot up shooter. Sometimes there's things that effect the stats, which helps to look at, as opposed to analyzing stats in a vacuum as you choose to. Of course, generally we just get the I was just posting stats reply, so..

 

[Natebishop3]

He shot worse, that's about it. Of course, Miller was covered by Phoenix's best defender, and the focus of their efforts, while Blake was a spot up shooter. Sometimes there's things that effect the stats, which helps to look at, as opposed to analyzing stats in a vacuum as you choose to. Of course, generally we just get the I was just posting stats reply, so..

One stat I'm curious about... how many airballs did Miller shoot with the game on the line in a critical playoff game for the Blazers?

 

[PapaG]

But if he were self-centered he wouldn't be here - http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/assists

That's an interesting list if you look closely at it.

Of the Top 25 assist leaders in NBA history, only 8 of them are in the NBA Hall of Fame. Three more probably will make it once they retire/get some more separation from retiring (Kidd, Nash, Payton). I won't say Payton is a lock, though.

Comparatively, of the Top 25 scoring leaders in NBA history, 20 are in the Hall of Fame, 3 more a shoe-ins (Shaq, Bryant, Iverson), and one is mayber (Reggie Miller).

For rebounding, 15 of the Top 25 are in the HoF, and three more are shoe-ins (Shaq, Garnett, Duncan).

I'm not sure what this means (perhaps that assists are overrated?), but one thing it says to me is that Artis Gilmore is getting hosed, since he is 5th in rebounding, 20th in scoring, and not in the freaking Hall of Fame!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I was out of town when that happened, and it did surprise me, but when I found out it was Muggsy Bogues that he passed to get to 15th, I have to admit it made it seem less impressive to me, because I don't have Bogues even on my radar as an all-time PG. Of course, he too struggled as a starting PG to win in the playoffs, although he did get out of the first round one time more than Miller has thus far.


I agree with that, but I don't think that Lund would just make up the quote, do you? Perception can be more important than reality, unfortunately, and maybe that's the case with Miller and some people within the organization.

In a small sports market not only do you have 2 all sports radio stations, each of them having hosts desperate to find something original to say or some scoop to report and then add to that all of the experts like the Godfather, Kenny Vance, Quick, etc and you have an environment where little things said get spun far from reality.

I don't think Lund made it up. I actually kind of like him but I do think he's taking liberties with what was said to him.

 

[Haakzilla]

...Miller has NEVER won a NBA playoff series, I don't think that is a coincidence!

 

[e_blazer]

First, I don't buy the argument that Andre doesn't want to win. As I recall, that was one of the main reasons he sought out the Blazers as a free agent and went to the extent of meeting with KP & Nate to encourage them that he could help the team get to the next level. Andre seems to me to be a bit of an odd type of guy...keeps to himself and rather quiet. I think he just doesn't outwardly show his emotions as much as some people and that may be perceived as being more willing to accept defeat.

Second point - I don't think John Lund is particularly in the know when it comes to the NBA. The stuff he's been pushing about Brandon and a potential amnesty under the new CBA has been pretty inaccurate, IMO.

Third point - Why does a conversation about Miller's future have to devolve into a pissing match about PapaG? I'd say most people around the NBA think that there's a high probability that the Blazers move Miller before the deadline. I don't think that idea has as much to do with Miller's talent or attitude as it does with his age and contract status.

 

[illmatic99]

The way some players, fans, and media personnel have been dissing Dre since he got to PDX has been totally uncalled for. He is the epitome of professionalism.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

...Miller has NEVER won a NBA playoff series, I don't think that is a coincidence!

You could make an argument about maybe some of the Denver teams he was on but if you really look those teams he hasn't played on one that should have made it past the first round.

Sure, you could say Portland should have beat Phoenix last year but is the reason we didn't because of Miller?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Third point - Why does a conversation about Miller's future have to devolve into a pissing match about PapaG?

I think most of us are having a conversation with PapaG.

 

[illmatic99]

Grant Hill never won a NBA playoff series until last year. I guess he doesn't care about winning either.

 

[PapaG]

You could make an argument about maybe some of the Denver teams he was on but if you really look those teams he hasn't played on one that should have made it past the first round.

Sure, you could say Portland should have beat Phoenix last year but is the reason we didn't because of Miller?

Of course, because Miller is comfortable not winning.

 

[PapaG]

I think most of us are having a conversation with PapaG.

Yeah, this has been civil, outside of three posters who really didn't add anything in their drive-by posts.