John Salmons Deal in the works?

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If there is any truth to this rumor, it suggests to me that either Webster is out for the season, or that Webster/Outlaw are about to leave in a trade.
 
Ed O said:
Salmons just isn't that good of a player, though.

Look at his seasonal PERs:

2002-03 9.41
2003-04 10.68
2004-05 9.72
2005-06 10.70
2006-07 12.69
2007-08 14.29
2008-09 16.31

That's terrible, and this is a guy who's primarily an offensive player. Even his "career" year this season isn't particularly impressive. Clearly there's more to live and defining a player than PER, but coupled with his inability to start on less-than-impressive NBA rosters, I just don't see him being much, if at all, an upgrade over what we have.

Ed O.
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Yea I really worry that Petrie is trying to "Harvey Grant" us. Its the same type of manuver that Dumars pulled in Detroit. You take a player who is capable of scoring, play them a lot of minutes, make them the focus of the offense, and get their stats jacked up. Then you trade them for more than they are worth. AKA Harvey Granting you.
 
hasoos said:
Yea I really worry that Petrie is trying to "Harvey Grant" us. Its the same type of manuver that Dumars pulled in Detroit. You take a player who is capable of scoring, play them a lot of minutes, make them the focus of the offense, and get their stats jacked up. Then you trade them for more than they are worth. AKA Harvey Granting you.
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Except, Salmons plays efficiently, he's not a chucker, he plays really good defense when he's not being asked to carry a huge offensive load, and he's not a bad player. Even with Martin coming back to the Kings starting rotation and Salmons being made the second option he's still putting up solid FG%, getting assists and a decent number of rebounds.

I wouldn't suggest that he's some kind of all-star candidate, but he's done nothing but elevate his FG% for 4 straight years, and produce more when given greater responsibility, not less.

I don't know, maybe I'm just overestimating him because I'm a fan of his game and I'm letting that color what I think he'd bring to the Blazers as a starter, but I have to think it would more consistent than Batum, more efficient than Webster and savvier than Travis.
 
Ed O said:
Salmons just isn't that good of a player, though.

Look at his seasonal PERs:

2002-03 9.41
2003-04 10.68
2004-05 9.72
2005-06 10.70
2006-07 12.69
2007-08 14.29
2008-09 16.31

That's terrible, and this is a guy who's primarily an offensive player. Even his "career" year this season isn't particularly impressive. Clearly there's more to live and defining a player than PER, but coupled with his inability to start on less-than-impressive NBA rosters, I just don't see him being much, if at all, an upgrade over what we have.

Ed O.
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If you compare his stats with Martell (from last year), Batum and Travis this year he is smashing them in pretty much every category. Salmons shoots a higher FG % and 3pt %, scores more points, averages 4 boards and 3.5 apg on a team that is one of the worst in the league.

don't forget he has to defend the other team's best offensive player on the floor.

he seems like a solid 2-3 year upgrade/rental until Marty or Nicolas is ready to accept the starting role full time.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Except, Salmons plays efficiently, he's not a chucker, he plays really good defense when he's not being asked to carry a huge offensive load, and he's not a bad player. Even with Martin coming back to the Kings starting rotation and Salmons being made the second option he's still putting up solid FG%, getting assists and a decent number of rebounds.

I wouldn't suggest that he's some kind of all-star candidate, but he's done nothing but elevate his FG% for 4 straight years, and produce more when given greater responsibility, not less.

I don't know, maybe I'm just overestimating him because I'm a fan of his game and I'm letting that color what I think he'd bring to the Blazers as a starter, but I have to think it would more consistent than Batum, more efficient than Webster and savvier than Travis.
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One problem though. They said the same thing about Harvey Grant before he came here. "He is efficient". "He is a good shooter". "He is a quality defender". I probably wouldn't remember all this stuff, but Harvey Grant was one player who really pissed me off with how badly we got ripped off.
 
hasoos said:
One problem though. They said the same thing about Harvey Grant before he came here. "He is efficient". "He is a good shooter". "He is a quality defender". I probably wouldn't remember all this stuff, but Harvey Grant was one player who really pissed me off with how badly we got ripped off.
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You are comparing the Harvey Grant to Salmons? Really? There's no factual basis for that comparison I can conceive of.

Dude is a huge upgrade IMHO. Check the hustle:

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craigehlo said:
You are comparing the Harvey Grant to Salmons? Really? There's no factual basis for that comparison I can conceive of.
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Sure there is. He's just not good. He's putting up decent/good numbers on a bad team.

That's pretty classic Harvey Grant, except Grant had a longer track record of putting up decent/good numbers.

Ed O.
 
so would you start him at sf? what if miller comes in a trade? outlaw back to sf and batum benched?
 
Ed O said:
Sure there is. He's just not good. He's putting up decent/good numbers on a bad team.

That's pretty classic Harvey Grant, except Grant had a longer track record of putting up decent/good numbers.

Ed O.
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Harvey Grant averaged almost 10 more minutes a game with the Bullets prior to his arrival in Portland...which could partially explain his drop off in "ability".
 
Ed O said:
Sure there is. He's just not good. He's putting up decent/good numbers on a bad team.
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Good number on a bad team? That's another meaningless hoops cliché. So I guess Butler, Durant, Deng, Gay and Grainger all suck using that same method of evaluation.
 
I don't think there's anything to this rumor. Salmons isn't a starter quality SF.
 
tlongII said:
I don't think there's anything to this rumor. Salmons isn't a starter quality SF.
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That's wrong. Salmons is a good player.

My only concern is that looks much better with the ball in his hands.
 
tlongII said:
I don't think there's anything to this rumor. Salmons isn't a starter quality SF.
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13th in Hollingers PER rating for SF's in the NBA ahead of...

Josh Howard, Shawn Marion, Hedo, Luol, Tayshaun, Rudy Gay, and Stephen Jackson.

is that enough evidence?
 
free_lafrentz said:
13th in Hollingers PER rating for SF's in the NBA ahead of...

Josh Howard, Shawn Marion, Hedo, Luol, Tayshaun, Rudy Gay, and Stephen Jackson.

is that enough evidence?
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Salmons is a starting quality player this year. This year is the first year he's played at this level, and he's 29 (so it's not like he was just pre-prime before). I wouldn't put very good odds on him staying at this level, and even this year he hasn't been all that good. Slightly above average for a starter.

If we get him for just LaFrentz, essentially, then it's a modest upgrade. Essentially trading no significant player for a good backup, akin to Webster in quality. I just think (perhaps wrongly) that the cap space LaFrentz represents is worth more than that, especially in combination with a good player or two.
 
craigehlo said:
Good number on a bad team? That's another meaningless hoops cliché. So I guess Butler, Durant, Deng, Gay and Grainger all suck using that same method of evaluation.
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Here is the problem with your statement. You mix in several players who play on teams with a fair amount of talent, or higher, in with players on bad team, and try to make it look like it's all the same. Secondly, you try to act like John Salmons scoring is in the same league as Danny Granger and Caron Butlers. Good luck with making that one stick.

You compare a guy who is being productive on a single bad team, to some guys who have been productive on every team they have been on. I believe John Salmons may have had some decent years in Philly, but that is nothing compared to a guy like Caron Butler who has been solid with several franchises of varied talent levels. If you watched Danny Granger play this year, you would never make such a completely propesterous claim about comparing their levels of play.

Would anybody here trade Butler or Granger straight up for Salmons? Because that is what you basically tried to do, is put him in their league. The same can be said for the other guys you through in there to try and make it work. Deng and Gay would never be traded straight across for a Granger or Butler. Nice try though.
 
Salmons is nothing KP would waste time thinking about.

Maybe for Channing or Ike, but not RF's contract.

Bake it!
 
hasoos said:
You compare a guy who is being productive on a single bad team, to some guys who have been productive on
every team they have been on.
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Salmons was certainly productive for the 76ers, even in limited minutes. That's why the Kings gave him a 5-year deal worth $25 million. The fact is Salmons has steadily gotten better every year in the league. The Kings took a risk that he would continue to improve and the risk paid off nicely for them.

"We feel he's still an emerging player in the NBA," said Geoff Petrie on signing Salmons back in 2006.
 
Harvey Grant.. yuck, he was such a huge bust. His two-handed jump shot and follow through was ugly and he was soft. I was not a big fan of his.
 
hasoos said:
Would anybody here trade Butler or Granger straight up for Salmons? Because that is what you basically tried to do, is put him in their league. The same can be said for the other guys you through in there to try and make it work. Deng and Gay would never be traded straight across for a Granger or Butler. Nice try though.
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That's called the "transitive property" FYI. And that's not what I was doing. I wasn't comparing sill levels, I was pointing out that simply being on a bad team is a pretty poor reason to discount a player's stats by showing some examples of quality players on crappy teams. There are some legit reasons to question Salmon's overall talent, but the "good stats/crappy team" doesn't hold water.
 
Chad Ford chimes in....

Mark (Portland): There's rumor of a Portland/Sacramento trade going do soon that burning up the interwebs. It's Raef and a pick for Salmons and Moore. Any truth to that?

SportsNation Chad Ford: I'd be surprised. Pritchard is very sensitive to team chemistry and Salmons, though talented, hasn't been the greatest teammate over the years.
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Kevin Martin would have been an interesting trade target, since he's having a down year, perhaps he'd have been attainable, if Portland traded Outlaw and Raef and took back Kenny Thomas in addition to Martin. I'd even have been willing to trade Fernandez instead of Outlaw.

Unfortunately, Martin is BYC, so pretty difficult to trade for.
 
Fez said:
Chad Ford chimes in....
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Interesting . . . thanks for the info.

I agree that KP puts extra weight on character guys, and with this team I think that's great.

I was thinking the worst thing for this team is a disgruntled semi-star player that comes here by way of trade and the team starts to lose. A josh Howard sounds great if things are all good, but if the Blazers lose and fingers start pointing . . . I would hate to hear Howard's off the record comments to teammates ("this is bullshit man, management doesn't know anything, you got take care of your own interests . . ." I don't know if Howard, per se, would say all this but that is who comes to mind as potential problem in the locker room.)

I never would have guessed Salmons isn't a good lockerroom guy. He has talent, but not a star and on a bad team . . . is guy like that allowed to have an attitude in the locker room?
 
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free_lafrentz said:
Harvey Grant averaged almost 10 more minutes a game with the Bullets prior to his arrival in Portland...which could partially explain his drop off in "ability".
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That's the point. There was no drop-off in ability.

There was a drop-off in PRODUCTION because he came to a better team and it was revealed that he was padding stats playing with inferior players. Not his fault. Just a fact.

Ed O.
 
1080 said that the Blazers made the offer of Raef and a future pick for Salmons...FWIW
 
Not a horrible deal, but Salmons to me is a duplication of Webster. I assume Martel will be back in 3-4 weeks. Not exactly "consolidating"
 
why would we throw away a nice expirng contract AND a pick for slamons who would take PT away from rudy...outlaw...batum and webster


makes no sense at all
 
John Salmons/Travis Outlaw/Nicolas Batum/Martell Webster

There has to be another move, that's a massive log jam.
 
I don't really see the comparison to Webster.

Webster is a set shooter for the most part. Salmons can shoot off the dribble.
 
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