OT Judge: Teen must repay $37M for starting Oregon wildfire

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https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-44213618


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Image captionThe fire burned for nearly three months in Oregon

A judge has ordered a teenager to pay more than $36m (£27m) after he admitted starting a huge forest fire that raged for months in the US state of Oregon.

Hood River County Judge John Olson ruled the boy must also write apology notes to 152 people who were trapped on hiking trails by the conflagration.

The Eagle Creek fire burned for nearly three months in the scenic Columbia River Gorge, destroying several homes.

A lawyer for the 15-year-old called the amount "absurd" and "absolutely silly".

In February, the boy - who is not named in court documents - admitted to throwing a firework on 2 September 2017 into the tinder-dry Eagle Creek Canyon - about 50 miles (80km) from Portland.

The resulting inferno engulfed 48,000 acres and cost fire crews $18m to fight.

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He pleaded guilty to eight counts of reckless burning of public and private property, two counts of depositing burning materials on forest land, as well criminal mischief and reckless endangerment of others.

In a ruling on Monday, the court said the boy must pay $36,618,330 to Eagle Creek victims, including the US Forest Service, the Oregon Department of Transportation, the Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs, the Columbia River Intertribal Fish Commission, a homeowner and others.

He was also ordered to serve five years of probation and perform 1,920 hours of community service for the US Forest Service.

The court acknowledged in its ruling that the teen will not be able to pay the full amount.

Image copyrightWIKIMEDIA COMMONS
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But Judge Olson cited "safety valves" in state law that allows juvenile offenders to stop payments after 10 years if they finish probation and do not commit any other crimes.

Jack Morris, a lawyer for the boy, argued last week that the penalty is excessive and urged the judge to impose a "reasonable and rational" amount, reports the Oregonian .

But Judge Olson wrote that the figure "is clearly proportionate to the offence because it does not exceed the financial damages caused by the youth".

He also directed the juvenile probation officers to help the boy create a payment schedule.

The teen's mother told the Oregonian newspaper in November that the fire was "a trauma" for her son.

During his plea hearing in February he begged the court's forgiveness, saying: "I know I will have to live with his bad decision for the rest of my life, but I have learned from this experience and will work hard to help rebuild the community in any way that I can.

"I now realise how important it is to think before acting because my actions can have serious consequences."
 
Those who are defending this asshat and his "crushing debt" need to realize:

a) the $37 million was the cost to tax payers of his intentional negligence.
b) his careless actions didn't just destroy a beautiful natural area, they also destroyed personal property and put lives in danger.
c) he's fucking 15 years old and probably doesn't even have a job, and if he does, he's making minimum wage working part time.
d) 25% of minimum wage at 20 hours a week comes to $55 per week, "Crushing debt" my ass.
e) if he doesn't fuck up again, it ALL goes away after 10 years.
f) if he's smart, he will just choose not to work for his remaining three years of high school and four years of college, then he'll have 25% of his wages garnished for a three whole years.
g) his parents are not financially responsible for any of this, so any money they give to him or any money they contribute to his college fund are free and clear.

Keep in mind he was totally unrepentant when confronted by other hikers on the trail about the roaring blaze he'd started (basically told them to fuck off and mind their own business). Was too busy trying to flee the scene of his crime to call 911 to report the fire he'd started.

I feel zero sympathy for this kid. Anyone who has hiked that trail knows it has posted signs that say "fires prohibited except in designated areas". There are also huge signs along the rode on the way to the trail head that indicate the fire danger (it was severe at the time).

This kid isn't going to kill himself over this. His only regret is that he got caught.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Those who are defending this asshat and his "crushing debt" need to realize:

a) the $37 million was the cost to tax payers of his intentional negligence.
b) his careless actions didn't just destroy a beautiful natural area, they also destroyed personal property and put lives in danger.
c) he's fucking 15 years old and probably doesn't even have a job, and if he does, he's making minimum wage working part time.
d) 25% of minimum wage at 20 hours a week comes to $55 per week, "Crushing debt" my ass.
e) if he doesn't fuck up again, it ALL goes away after 10 years.
f) if he's smart, he will just choose not to work for his remaining three years of high school and four years of college, then he'll have 25% of his wages garnished for a three whole years.
g) his parents are not financially responsible for any of this, so any money they give to him or any money they contribute to his college fund are free and clear.

Keep in mind he was totally unrepentant when confronted by other hikers on the trail about the roaring blaze he'd started (basically told them to fuck off and mind their own business). Was too busy trying to flee the scene of his crime to call 911 to report the fire he'd started.

I feel zero sympathy for this kid. Anyone who has hiked that trail knows it has posted signs that say "fires prohibited except in designated areas". There are also huge signs along the rode on the way to the trail head that indicate the fire danger (it was severe at the time).

This kid isn't going to kill himself over this. His only regret is that he got caught.

BNM
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Why do you hate careless young Americans?
 
Boob-No-More said:
Those who are defending this asshat and his "crushing debt" need to realize:

a) the $37 million was the cost to tax payers of his intentional negligence.
b) his careless actions didn't just destroy a beautiful natural area, they also destroyed personal property and put lives in danger.
c) he's fucking 15 years old and probably doesn't even have a job, and if he does, he's making minimum wage working part time.
d) 25% of minimum wage at 20 hours a week comes to $55 per week, "Crushing debt" my ass.
e) if he doesn't fuck up again, it ALL goes away after 10 years.
f) if he's smart, he will just choose not to work for his remaining three years of high school and four years of college, then he'll have 25% of his wages garnished for a three whole years.
g) his parents are not financially responsible for any of this, so any money they give to him or any money they contribute to his college fund are free and clear.

Keep in mind he was totally unrepentant when confronted by other hikers on the trail about the roaring blaze he'd started (basically told them to fuck off and mind their own business). Was too busy trying to flee the scene of his crime to call 911 to report the fire he'd started.

I feel zero sympathy for this kid. Anyone who has hiked that trail knows it has posted signs that say "fires prohibited except in designated areas". There are also huge signs along the rode on the way to the trail head that indicate the fire danger (it was severe at the time).

This kid isn't going to kill himself over this. His only regret is that he got caught.

BNM
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Not defending him, I’m just saying you could choose another consequence for him. Didnt know if you knew this but 55 dollars a week doesn’t buy you much in this country, especially trying to make a living by the time he’s 18 plus.
 
Cippy91 said:
I’m not talking about currently enlisted, I’m talking about how the number of people enlisting year by year and currently it’s very low.
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According to data from the Defense Manpower Data Center — an arm of the Department of Defense — the number of active duty military personnel nationwide decreased from 1.16 million in 2013 to 1.12 million at the end of 2017.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
According to data from the Defense Manpower Data Center — an arm of the Department of Defense — the number of active duty military personnel nationwide decreased from 1.16 million in 2013 to 1.12 million at the end of 2017.
Click to expand...
Well then I guess Tim Kennedy, a guy who was in the army himself and also in the ufc was wrong. On a podcast the other day he said the number of people enlisting were down and he said they were in trouble and that people needed to enlist.
 
Cippy91 said:
Well then I guess Tim Kennedy, a guy who was in the army himself and also in the ufc was wrong. On a podcast the other day he said the number of people enlisting were down and he said they were in trouble and that people needed to enlist.
Click to expand...

Then enlist. Let me know if you need a ride.
 
Cippy91 said:
Not defending him, I’m just saying you could choose another consequence for him. Didnt know if you knew this but 55 dollars a week doesn’t buy you much in this country, especially trying to make a living by the time he’s 18 plus.
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So, what are you suggesting? Jail time?

The kid got off extremely easy compared to the damage he did and the lives he put at risk.

Yeah, I get that $55 isn't a lot of money. That was my entire point. That was a high estimate. At 15, as a full time high school student, if he even has a job, it's probably more like 8 - 10 hours a week. In which case the $55 drops to $25. I'm sure that will put a real crimp in his weed and fireworks budget for this summer. Boo fucking hoo!

And why are you so worried about his ability to earn a living. He lives with his parents and doesn't even need to work if he doesn't want to, in which case he pays $0 for the damage he's done.

And why the sympathy for him and not the 100s of others he put out of work???? What about them????

You realize that the Columbia River Gorge is (well make that was) a major tourist attraction, right? All trails in the main part of the Gorge, on the Oregon side, are entirely closed for the summer, as is the Columbia River Scenic Hwy. That means the Multnomah Falls Lodge gift shop and restaurant will remain closed for at least full a year, most likely longer. That means everyone who normally works there is out of a job through no fault of their own. And that doesn't even include all the small private businesses that depend on tourist dollars to stay afloat.

This careless asshat, worst case, loses 25% of his paycheck. His negligence costs hundreds of people 100% of their paychecks.

So yeah, I don't feel one tiny bit of sympathy for him. Everyone sees the $37 million figure and thinks, oh poor baby, he's going to have crushing debt for the rest of his life. That's bullshit. That's not how much he's going to have to repay, that's how much he cost others. He's not the victim here. I'll be surprise that if, when all is said and done, he pays back more than $25,000 of the $37,000,000 damage he caused. In the meantime, hundreds of people have lost their jobs and will lose their businesses because of him.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
So, what are you suggesting? Jail time?

The kid got off extremely easy compared to the damage he did and the lives he put at risk.

Yeah, I get that $55 isn't a lot of money. That was my entire point. That was a high estimate. At 15, as a full time high school student, if he even has a job, it's probably more like 8 - 10 hours a week. In which case the $55 drops to $25. I'm sure that will put a real crimp in his weed and fireworks budget for this summer. Boo fucking hoo!

And why are you so worried about his ability to earn a living. He lives with his parents and doesn't even need to work if he doesn't want to, in which case he pays $0 for the damage he's done.

And why the sympathy for him and not the 100s of others he put out of work???? What about them????

You realize that the Columbia River Gorge is (well make that was) a major tourist attraction, right? All trails in the main part of the Gorge, on the Oregon side, are entirely closed for the summer, as is the Columbia River Scenic Hwy. That means the Multnomah Falls Lodge gift shop and restaurant will remain closed for at least full a year, most likely longer. That means everyone who normally works there is out of a job through no fault of their own. And that doesn't even include all the small private businesses that depend on tourist dollars to stay afloat.

This careless asshat, worst case, loses 25% of his paycheck. His negligence costs hundreds of people 100% of their paychecks.

So yeah, I don't feel one tiny bit of sympathy for him. Everyone sees the $37 million figure and thinks, oh poor baby, he's going to have crushing debt for the rest of his life. That's bullshit. That's not how much he's going to have to repay, that's how much he cost others. He's not the victim here. I'll be surprise that if, when all is said and done, he pays back more than $25,000 of the $37,000,000 damage he caused. In the meantime, hundreds of people have lost their jobs and will lose their businesses because of him.

BNM
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Never said he was a victim. I’m saying you have to remember he’s 15. At 15 as boys we all were dumb. I just think putting him in debt for 10 years is a little ridiculous. I grew up in the country. I love nature. I went to those falls every year as a child and as I got older I hiked the surrounding trails whether it be angels rest or Oneonta. So trust me, when that fire was going yeah I was upset. I was scared they would never be the same. I am in Damascus which is close to mhcc where they were keeping people. I was sad for these older folks and their worry for their homes and love for the forest. I remember smelling the smoke even with my windows closed while watching the news, seeing it in the air. Kate brown treated the fire like she didn’t care, let’s not forget about that. I’m just saying remember he’s 15. Of course he’s a little asshole. All kids at 15 think they know everything and are entitled, especially boys. By your logic though we should hold every 15 year old accountable and in times where we think they are victims, maybe question that. Because hey they know entirely what they are doing right? Their brains are fully developed obviously. Time to start treating every 15 year old like an adult
 
He's only 15 years old, obviously no credit cards and already 37 million dollars in debt. He's fucked!
 
BigGameDamian said:
He's only 15 years old, obviously no credit cards and already 37 million dollars in debt. He's fucked!
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Did you see the video of him throwing the firework? He's got an arm! I predict $50mill baseball contract! "Throws fire!"
 
BigGameDamian said:
He's only 15 years old, obviously no credit cards and already 37 million dollars in debt. He's fucked!
Click to expand...

No he's not. Jesus learn to read. He only has to put 25% of his minimum wage, part time earnings toward paying his debt, and then after 10 years of paying a couple thousand dollars a year, the balance will be forgiven.

The $37 million isn't what he will pay, it's the cost of the damage he did. Again, he is NOT the victim here.

He's actually lucky he doesn't have a credit card. If he did, his monthly minimum payment would probably be more than the actual payments he will be making to compensate the people he screwed out of $37 million.

BNM
 
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Cippy91 said:
Never said he was a victim. I’m saying you have to remember he’s 15. At 15 as boys we all were dumb. I just think putting him in debt for 10 years is a little ridiculous. I grew up in the country. I love nature. I went to those falls every year as a child and as I got older I hiked the surrounding trails whether it be angels rest or Oneonta. So trust me, when that fire was going yeah I was upset. I was scared they would never be the same. I am in Damascus which is close to mhcc where they were keeping people. I was sad for these older folks and their worry for their homes and love for the forest. I remember smelling the smoke even with my windows closed while watching the news, seeing it in the air. Kate brown treated the fire like she didn’t care, let’s not forget about that. I’m just saying remember he’s 15. Of course he’s a little asshole. All kids at 15 think they know everything and are entitled, especially boys. By your logic though we should hold every 15 year old accountable and in times where we think they are victims, maybe question that. Because hey they know entirely what they are doing right? Their brains are fully developed obviously. Time to start treating every 15 year old like an adult
Click to expand...

He is not being treated like an adult. If he was, the $37 million he owes would not be forgiven after making monthly minimum payments for 10 years. If he was an adult, he'd also most likely be facing criminal charges for criminal negligence and reckless endangerment.

Yeah, 15 year old kids do stupid shit. How many of then destroy $37 million in property and the livelihoods of hundreds of hard working people? Those people are the victims here, if if little Johnny Asshat has to pay $25 a week, or $50 a week, or even $500 a week for 10 years it's a pittance compared to what he cost those people.

So, he's 15 and stupid, what are we supposed to do, let him off scott free and just say "boy will be boys"? Forget the fact that the damage he did to the forests will never recover in my lifetime, what about all the people he put out of work.

And get over the $37 million amount. It's not real - at least not real to him. It's actually VERY real to the people he fucked. That's the actual impact of the damage he has done, not the amount he will repay. He won't even pay back one half of one percent of that amount.

In the meantime, the tax payers, the small business owners and the employees of those business are out $37 million. Think about that before you shed a tear for this stupid little fuck.

BNM
 
BigGameDamian said:
Might be his only way out. Either that or start throwing the football around.
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Either that or just refuse to work and live off his parents/public assistance for the next 10 years and it won't cost him one damn penny.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Either that or just refuse to work and live off his parents/public assistance for the next 10 years and it won't cost him one damn penny.

BNM
Click to expand...

I do believe the judge can extend that past 10 years.
 
Boob-No-More said:
He is not being treated like an adult. If he was, the $37 million he owes would not be forgiven after making monthly minimum payments for 10 years. If he was an adult, he'd also most likely be facing criminal charges for criminal negligence and reckless endangerment.

Yeah, 15 year old kids do stupid shit. How many of then destroy $37 million in property and the livelihoods of hundreds of hard working people? Those people are the victims here, if if little Johnny Asshat has to pay $25 a week, or $50 a week, or even $500 a week for 10 years it's a pittance compared to what he cost those people.

So, he's 15 and stupid, what are we supposed to do, let him off scott free and just say "boy will be boys"? Forget the fact that the damage he did to the forests will never recover in my lifetime, what about all the people he put out of work.

And get over the $37 million amount. It's not real - at least not real to him. It's actually VERY real to the people he fucked. That's the actual impact of the damage he has done, not the amount he will repay. He won't even pay back one half of one percent of that amount.

In the meantime, the tax payers, the small business owners and the employees of those business are out $37 million. Think about that before you shed a tear for this stupid little fuck.

BNM
Click to expand...
You keep implying I’m defending him when I’m not. You sitting here calling a 15 year old all sorts of names says more about you than me. I’m not saying he’s innocent. I never said he didn’t deserve some form of punishment. Everybody knows who he is so he is automatically hated and he isn’t gonna make shit by the time he’s supposed to be going forward and going to school and living on his own. That 55 dollars a week won’t pay rent or for gas, all that. I would of sent him on his way to a juvenile center for a year.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I do believe the judge can extend that past 10 years.
Click to expand...

Not according to the article:

The judge's order notes that the boy can set up a payment plan, though payments can be halted after 10 years as long as he complies, completes probation and doesn't commit other crimes.

He makes his minimum monthly payments, which are 25% of his earnings, doesn't violate his probation or commit any additional crimes and the remaining ~$36,980,000 is forgiven.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
This thread makes me weep for the future, where reading comprehension and accountability are nothing more than curious relics of an ancient civilization . I won't be around for the worst of it, but my kids will.

BNM
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Sorry this isn’t the America where it’s easy to make a living. Dudes over 50 on this forum want the worst for this kid. That’s fine but you never had to try and balance school and a job in this day and age. I would be more worried for the youth for other reasons, not this. The pull yourself up by your boot straps times are dead just like the traditional nba center. You say somebody like me is defending the kid when I’m not. I’m just saying remember he’s 15. Everybody does ridiculously stupid shit when they are 15. Is it accidentally burning thousands and thousands of acres of a forest down? No but for fucks sake give me a break.
 
Cippy91 said:
Sorry this isn’t the America where it’s easy to make a living. Dudes over 50 on this forum want the worst for this kid. That’s fine but you never had to try and balance school and a job in this day and age. I would be more worried for the youth for other reasons, not this. The pull yourself up by your boot straps times are dead just like the traditional nba center. You say somebody like me is defending the kid when I’m not. I’m just saying remember he’s 15. Everybody does ridiculously stupid shit when they are 15. Is it accidentally burning thousands and thousands of acres of a forest down? No but for fucks sake give me a break.
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Many members of this forum served in the military. I offered it as practical solution to the hole this kid's actions has put him in. He would serve his country, could learn a trade or a profession, and earn money to go to college. That is not wanting the worst for him. You're the one who has shit on that and our military.

If you really believe that it's so hard for you here in this country, that you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps, then leave.
 
Cippy91 said:
You keep implying I’m defending him when I’m not. You sitting here calling a 15 year old all sorts of names says more about you than me. I’m not saying he’s innocent. I never said he didn’t deserve some form of punishment. Everybody knows who he is so he is automatically hated and
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But you are defending him and making excuses for him (he's young and stupid - well so is every other 15-year old, but most don't destroy $37 million in property and the lives of hundreds of innocent, hard working people).

I don't know who he is, and I honestly don't care. His name wasn't released to protect him from backlash.

Cippy91 said:
he isn’t gonna make shit by the time he’s supposed to be going forward and going to school and living on his own.
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.

You don't know this. His parents are completely off the hook financially for his actions. He can live with them as long as he/they want. Any money they have saved up for his college education cannot be touched. He could end up going to college getting an education and a great paying job. He will keep 75% of his earnings from that great paying job until he turns 25, three years after graduating from college, after he gets to keep 100% of all future earnings.

Fir every doom and gloom sob story you invent I can concoct one where this kid comes out smelling like a rose - with minimal long term impact to his future.

What I can't come up with, for the life of me, is one single scenario where the people he put out of work are fairly compensated for his loss. Ok, well there is one. If he wins $148 million playing Powerball and gives 25% of his winnings to the people he fucked they will get back what he took from them. Other than that unlikely event, they are the real losers here.

Cippy91 said:
That 55 dollars a week won’t pay rent or for gas, all that.
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I don't see your point here. That $55 (or whatever it ends up being) will be divided among the hundreds of people he fucked over. How much rent, gas, etc. you think their individual share of that $55/week is going to buy each of them?

Yeah, I'm being hard on him, but I don't think you fully comprehend the damage his carelessnesss did to others. Those are the people I feel sorry for, not him. He CHOSE to do this. The people whose property the fire destroyed and those who lost their jobs because of this didn't have any choice in the matter. He made that choice for them.

And, just in case the kid that did this ever stumbles upon this thread...

Hey kid, you fucked up, you already know that. Don't kill yourself, that isn't going to help anyone. Learn from your mistake, be a better person and do your best to pay back as much as you can. We know you can never pay it all back, not even close, and don't expect you to. Not even the judge expects that. That's why he is willing to forgive your debt after 10 years. Don't fret the $37 million amount. Ot's completely unrealistic and we all (well, most of us) realize that. Just do your best to pay back as much as you can, do your community service and help educate others so they may also learn from your mistake. Ok?

The Gorge has always been my favorite place to hike. I've hiked the Eagle Creek trail over 100 times, in all seasons. It was always the first trail I'd take my visiting friends and relatives on to introduce them to the beauty of my adopted home state. That is gone now. You don't need my forgiveness, but do your best and you will receive it. Sorry of I sounded like an asshole. I'm not (well not a TOTAL asshole). I just feel strongly about this, but what is done is done and can't be undone. Just do your best and it will all be ok in the end.

BNM
 
Cippy91 said:
Dudes over 50 on this forum want the worst for this kid.
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No we don't (at least I don't). Stop being such an ageist. No one here suggested jail time for the kid. I just want what's best for the victims of his negligence. That's not the same as wanting what's worst for him.

In fact, if he goes to college and gets a good paying job, both him and his victims will come out ahead. I see that as a win:win for everyone.

In your opinion, does that make me some angry old asshole that hates everyone under the age of 30?

BNM
 
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