Just for shits & giggles....

[blgridesagain]

...can someone decipher this gibberish ^^^?


...and explain to me why Hank Aaron is being compared to Russell fucking Martin?


...spin it however you want, but Martin is not an "exceptional" offensive catcher...and Granderson sux.

______________________________________

Spin this.....I totally demolished your claim that the Yankee's catching offense has been a problem "including this year" as you conveniently SPUN my response in post#19 when I said:
the Yankees' catching this year is tied for 2nd place in RBI, tied for 6th in OPS and is ranked 5th in SLG%. by comparing them to MLB and critisizing A.L. catchers...looks like you want it both ways when it suits you...lmao....

NEWSFLASH---> the Yankees are competing with the AMERICAN LEAGUE for 1st place, playoffs, the Pennant.
Talk about spinning.......lmao.....stop it...my side is hurting.

Now go dry off....you're all washed up.

 

[yankeesince59]

...ya know, somehow I believe you really see it that way.

 

[blgridesagain]

Ricky Ricky Ricky...have you caught the '59 disease?
I never said Martin was a GREAT offensive catcher as you said in your post #27.
( I want blg to show where Martin is a great offensive catcher.)
Now please stop...you're better than that.

Tell you what- Include this years stats for Martin, then list how many other catchers have been better overall across the board offensively over the same approx period he's played.
I'm not saying there aren't better catchers offensively...but he's been better than the large majority.....and that makes him GOOD, and/or exceptional. YOUR MOVE.

 

[blgridesagain]

...oh, yeah, that's much better...now you're comparing Russell Martin to Ernie Banks instead of Hank Aaron.

(rolls eyes)

_____________________

'59, quit while you're only losing by alot! lmao

You said RBI is a team stat - which insults every hitter who ever drove in a run.
I used Ernie Banks as an example of a hitter who CAN BE CAPABLE of driving in a lot of runs and hitting alot of Homers ON A BAD TEAM.....I said BAD TEAM...

So explain how a hitter can drive in so many runs on a bad team if RBI is a team stat.
Tell you what, the next time the Yankees leave the tying run on 2nd base in the 9th inning- think of me. lmao
Or maybe you'll be waiting for 3 walks (OBP) to eventually tie the game...lmao


Go dry off...you're washed up in this thread.

 

[yankeesince59]

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...off&q=why+rbis+are+a+bad+stat&revid=961021751

 

[yankeesince59]

I never said Martin was a GREAT offensive catcher

...right, you said he is "an EXCEPTIONAL offensive catcher"...yeah, that's different.

 

[blgridesagain]

...right, you said he is "an EXCEPTIONAL offensive catcher"...yeah, that's different.

_____________________________

Go read #33 again. And I can see you're somehow trying to use "exceptional" as some sort of hammer on me... Go right ahead.....he is a GOOD offensive catcher.

I wonder how many other catchers measure up to Martin over the similiar span of his career....I think you just might see him as being "exceptional" ...

 

[yankeesince59]

...lmao...I don't have to go back and read, I know exactly what happened...only after being called out for claiming he was "an exceptional offensive catcher"(post #7), you then back peddled and amended your claim to him being merely "good".
...actually, it appears you are using your own "hammer" on yourself...not my fault you chose the wrong term.
...maybe you should go back and read...I already acknowledged that "Yes, Martin is a "good" offensive catcher, but that's a long way from being "exceptional". Buster Posey is exceptional (Career .308 .374 .488 .861)... Martin (Career .258 .354 .397 .751) is good." (post # 22)

 

[totus44]

There's enough straw man stats to repair the Scarescrow after being assaulted by flying blue monkeys....several times over.

When discussing offensive stats for catchers, how exactly does Aaron and Banks enter the argument? Just saying....

 

[yankeesince59]

...lol ^^^, evidently Aaron and Banks were interjected into the discussion as a desperate attempt to somehow disprove the fact that using RBIs is a poor way to gauge hitters...it's akin to pointing to Wins and Losses as an accurate way to gauge pitchers.

 

[blgridesagain]

...lol ^^^, evidently Aaron and Banks were interjected into the discussion as a desperate attempt to somehow disprove the fact that using RBIs is a poor way to gauge hitters...it's akin to pointing to Wins and Losses as an accurate way to gauge pitchers.

_______________________
So guys like Aaron, Musial,ect... Spahn, Maddux (WINS-LOSES debate)_ ect... wouldn't eventually be recognized as being all time greats at their craft if they played on bad teams their whole careers?

Why don't you just give it up and admit you blew it when you tried to downplay the CURRENT Yankees cathers' position being 2nd in the LEAGUE in RBI, tied for 6th in OPS and 6th in TB= (Total Bases after saying the Yankees' catcher's position as being a "problem" this year. You can't seem to handle the Yankee's catchers being 2ND in the league (as we spoke) so you attacked the RBI stat as being a "team stat"...thus...I had to bring up some examples of players who were GREAT ...and would've also been great And ARE recognized as GREAT, regardless of the type of teams they played on --- ERNIE BANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good RBI guys are good RBI guys--- live with it Sparky. You got whipped in this thread by ME. The Yankee catchers' spot has been definately holding it's own after you said it was a PROBLEM THIS YEAR.

Now once again.....please go dry off and stop embarrassing yourself any further on this subject because you're all washed up in this thread. Totus...are you reading?

 

[totus44]

Reading, yes...and reading for comprehension. The simple fact is that your argument structure is flawed. Your just can't go cherry pick stats from anywhere to fit your premise. I see validity in both parties, but at this stage you have weakened your side by failing to be structured and consistent in presenting your case. 59 has maintained his consistency and leveraged his advantage by your self weakening approach. Now scrub the references to Aaron and Banks and refocus your discussion and carry on.

Step one to winning an argument is staying on point and topic. By straying to give your opponent the opportunity to focus on your error and not the validity of your content. Step two is to avoid dumb ass blanket statements you can't support with facts.

 

[yankeesince59]

_______________________
So guys like Aaron, Musial,ect... Spahn, Maddux (WINS-LOSES debate)_ ect... wouldn't eventually be recognized as being all time greats at their craft if they played on bad teams their whole careers?

Why don't you just give it up and admit you blew it when you tried to downplay the CURRENT Yankees cathers' position being 2nd in the LEAGUE in RBI, tied for 6th in OPS and 6th in TB= (Total Bases after saying the Yankees' catcher's position as being a "problem" this year. You can't seem to handle the Yankee's catchers being 2ND in the league (as we spoke) so you attacked the RBI stat as being a "team stat"...thus...I had to bring up some examples of players who were GREAT ...and would've also been great And ARE recognized as GREAT, regardless of the type of teams they played on --- ERNIE BANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good RBI guys are good RBI guys--- live with it Sparky. You got whipped in this thread by ME. The Yankee catchers' spot has been definately holding it's own after you said it was a PROBLEM THIS YEAR.

Now once again.....please go dry off and stop embarrassing yourself any further on this subject because you're all washed up in this thread. Totus...are you reading?

...first off, I've not embarrassed myself in the least.

...secondly, I didn't "blow" anything. I clearly cited the poor ranking of Yankees catchers' BA and OBP in ALL of MLB...you countered by cherry-picking AL catchers ONLY and pointed to OPS, which as I pointed out at the time as "hilarious" because OPS is actually partially derived from the same stat I used. (OBP)...you also used RBIs as a gauge which I also said was "hilarious", and it is...because again, RBIs are a poor way to gauge the true value of a batter.
...as I clearly pointed out, the offensive production from the Yanx' catching position was a "problem" in 2012 and 2013. So the Yanx went out and spent millions on McCann to remedy that "problem". Do you seriously think McCann performed anywhere near the level of what management and the fans were expecting?...of course he didn't, which by default means the position was STILL a problem this year.


...thirdly, again, RBIs and W/L% are a terrible way to gauge hitters and pitchers...the irrelevant players you mentioned (Aaron, Bank, Spahn, Maddux would all have been greats regardless of their RBIs and W/L%. But what you cannot grasp is that we have not been talking about anyone one the scale of those 4 HOF members you pulled out of your ass. We were discussing Russell fucking Martin because you claimed he was "and exceptional offensive catcher"...and he's not. You then went off on a tangent of changing the subject and context of the argument by bringing up irrelevant players.

...let me dummy this down to a level than even you and your "3 brain cells" might be able to grasp;

1. Would you consider a pitcher with a W/L record of 13-12 as being great?...No?...say hello to Felix Hernandez (2010 CYA winner)

2. Would you consider a hitter who didn't finish in the top 10 in MLB in RBIs for 3 straight years as being great?...No?...say hello to Barry Bonds. (2002, 2003, 2004 MVP) In fact, Bonds has only lead his own league in RBIs ONE time. (1993)



...simply saying you've proven anything here and that I'm "washed up" doesn't make it so. You remind me of something I recently read; Discussing Baseball with you is "like playing chess with a pigeon. You knock over all the pieces strutting around the board, then you shit all over it, and then you declare victory".

 

[blgridesagain]

1. Would you consider a pitcher with a W/L record of 13-12 as being great?...No?...say hello to Felix Hernandez (2010 CYA winner)

2. Would you consider a hitter who didn't finish in the top 10 in MLB in RBIs for 3 straight years as being great?...No?...say hello to Barry Bonds. (2002, 2003, 2004 MVP) In fact, Bonds has only lead his own league in RBIs ONE time. (1993)



...simply saying you've proven anything here and that I'm "washed up" doesn't make it so. You remind me of something I recently read; Discussing Baseball with you is "like playing chess with a pigeon. You knock over all the pieces strutting around the board, then you shit all over it, and then you declare victory".

____________________________________

Umm.....oops, excuse me, there goes a rook....ooh, two pawns.......

Anyway, for what it's worth (good song)......looking at the rest of their stats, I actually would've answered YES to both of your questions.
I never said WINS & Loses and RBIs were the be all end all stat.

And for the last time....please,
I don't have three brain cells, there HAS TO BE at least 4 marbles rolling around up there.

peck peck peck peck.....there, no more knights on the board.




It's fun mixing it up with you. I do believe you know your "stuff".
Keep the flag flying!

 

[yankeesince59]

I never said .... RBIs were the be all end all stat.

...no, but you did use RBIs to support your misguided stance, which is tantamount to the same thing.

 

[blgridesagain]

...no, but you did use RBIs to support your misguided stance, which is tantamount to the same thing.

______________________________

Oh sh/t, here we go again. What the heck is so misguided about TRYING (on deaf ears?) to point out how the Yankees' catching hasn't been a problem IN GENERAL this year-- of course I realize the Yanks expect more out of McCann than what he's provided - but whether the Yanks like it or not - the Yankees' catchers have done quite OKAY as a group offensively and I still DO NOT think their overall offense has been a problem for the Yanks - that is to say, I don't think it's a big reason why this team has been struggling offensively throughout the season - the examples I used, RBI (yes especially RBI) as well as OPS are as legitimate as your OBP and BA examples. Lets not forget, OPS ALSO includes SLG% ..

I cherry-picked? Totus? Well excuuuuse me for pointing out a couple of SOLID well accepted baseball STATS.

And yes, you agreed with me that Russell Martin is a good offensive catcher....you seem to be having a problem with the word exceptional - like I said in another post, Martin is, and has been better (imo) as compared to the big majority of catchers from his first year up until now....and I'm afraid, some just may call that exceptional.

By the way Totus, you don't prescribe to sticking to the BIG LIE as a way of winning a debate/discussion - do you? lmao

 

[yankeesince59]

...no dumbass, it hasn't fallen on "deaf ears" by any stretch of the imagination...in case you haven't noticed, no one has agreed with your drivel, no one.

...and like I have said 3 times now, there's a big difference between "good" and "exceptional" ...and again for the 3rd time, Posey for example, is "exceptional" while Martin is merely "good"....find one person other than your dumb ass, who thinks Martin is "an exceptional offensive catcher".

...if you cannot grasp the difference between "good" and "exceptional" that's your problem.


...and oh, btw;

 

[Mattingly23NY]

I'd have to say Catcher's Offensive production or a lack thereof, is an indictment in general of all Catcher's in MLB, of this era. Perhaps less Yadier Molina. - (or- you might add a couple others who have had one or two good years in their entire careers)...

No doubt Mar-tan is a decent catcher. For one, I made a bold enough statement when he 1st came to the Yanks, he was capable of hitting 30 HR's, and that never transpired. I got grilled for as much a statement on the Old BSPN boards....I followed Mar-tan here in L.A. and oft wondered why they let him go. Had you been here watching every single Bums games, you'd know he's not bad, yet he's by far not the best. In better era's Mar-tan would be considered merely mediocre.....I can't put down a fellow Canuck, that would be blasphemous to my forefathers, and self too.....LOL...

Yet- Mar-tan, is not a Yadier Molina. On top of all this, the indictment of Catcher's Offense, is in decline....overall in general...

Gone are the days of Pudge Rodriguez, Munson, Bench, Howard, Berra, Dickey, et al., ..... now those were some exceptional catchers in every single aspect of being a back-stop, both defensively and offensively....

As much Mar-tan should not even be mentioned in the same breathe as Banks, and Aaron, and other HOF'ers... nope not at all.....that's merely begging for an argument, regardless of one's approach for debate.....end of story...!
Utilizing those HOF greats, in this debate is plain ridiculous, to try to make any point...beside the fact neither were back-stops.....!

If you wan't to compare, use the above noted exceptional back-stops...

 

[Mattingly23NY]

...no dumbass, it hasn't fallen on "deaf ears" by any stretch of the imagination...in case you haven't noticed, no one has agreed with your drivel, no one.

...and like I have said 3 times now, there's a big difference between "good" and "exceptional" ...and again for the 3rd time, Posey for example, is "exceptional" while Martin is merely "good"....find one person other than your dumb ass, who thinks Martin is "an exceptional offensive catcher".

...if you cannot grasp the difference between "good" and "exceptional" that's your problem.


...and oh, btw;

Damn, you come up with some of the most unique pics.....

 

[blgridesagain]

RE: post

Just as I thought - you're trying to save face after I've demolished your claim that the Yankees' catchers' offense has been a problem including THIS YEAR by trying to use the word exceptional (my word) to undermine my credibility when I said Russell Martin (imo) is, and has been a good offensive catcher throughout his career - of course he's had a couple of down years (injuries, whatever)...but for his career offensive numbers - I will go out on a slim limb and challenge you, AND THOSE MAKE BELIEVE PEOPLE who you said don't agree with me to list all the catchers in MLB who have had better career offensive numbers than Martin from his first year2006, until the present, 21014 .


Do you always use special effects and Jesus to try and prove YOUR POINT?





I'll be waiting to see this list of catchers who have been better than Martin offensively. Time for you to SHOW US ALL how many catchers have been better OFFENSIVELY...and don't forget to include the # of AT BATS .


And we'll see what the board thinks.


YOUR MOVE BIG SHOT!

 

[Mattingly23NY]

RE: post

Just as I thought - you're trying to save face after I've demolished your claim that the Yankees' catchers' offense has been a problem including THIS YEAR by trying to use the word exceptional (my word) to undermine my credibility when I said Russell Martin (imo) is, and has been a good offensive catcher throughout his career - of course he's had a couple of down years (injuries, whatever)...but for his career offensive numbers - I will go out on a slim limb and challenge you, AND THOSE MAKE BELIEVE PEOPLE who you said don't agree with me to list all the catchers in MLB who have had better career offensive numbers than Martin from his first year2006, until the present, 21014 .


Do you always use special effects and Jesus to try and prove YOUR POINT?





I'll be waiting to see this list of catchers who have been better than Martin offensively. Time for you to SHOW US ALL how many catchers have been better OFFENSIVELY...and don't forget to include the # of AT BATS .


And we'll see what the board thinks.


YOUR MOVE BIG SHOT!

Brides, with all due respect, you really don't think someone else should do your homework for you, do you? The Teacher wouldn't like that.....

Check Mate....

 

[yankeesince59]

RE: post

Just as I thought - you're trying to save face after I've demolished your claim that the Yankees' catchers' offense has been a problem including THIS YEAR by trying to use the word exceptional (my word) to undermine my credibility when I said Russell Martin (imo) is, and has been a good offensive catcher throughout his career - of course he's had a couple of down years (injuries, whatever)...but for his career offensive numbers - I will go out on a slim limb and challenge you, AND THOSE MAKE BELIEVE PEOPLE who you said don't agree with me to list all the catchers in MLB who have had better career offensive numbers than Martin from his first year2006, until the present, 21014 .


Do you always use special effects and Jesus to try and prove YOUR POINT?





I'll be waiting to see this list of catchers who have been better than Martin offensively. Time for you to SHOW US ALL how many catchers have been better OFFENSIVELY...and don't forget to include the # of AT BATS .


And we'll see what the board thinks.


YOUR MOVE BIG SHOT!

...lmao...it seems the "board has spoken" already, you're just too dense to realize it.

 

[blgridesagain]

Brides, with all due respect, you really don't think someone else should do your homework for you, do you? The Teacher wouldn't like that.....

Check Mate....

_______________________________

Okay, then we'll use Buster Posey, '59s only answer- a catcher who looks like he's on the path to a Hall of Fame career as being the only catcher besides Martin as being the only other "exceptional" offensive catcher from 2006 until 2014.

And that's that!

'59 bit off more than he can chew. He's trying to muddy the waters with semantics - I say RUSSELL MARTIN could be called an exceptional offensive catcher - this year, and career-wise... and certainly a GOOD offensive catcher. You're not going to put up a big Jesus billboard saying nasty things about me are you?

rotfl

Are you one of those many who disagree with me when I say the Yankees' catchers haven't been a problem for the Yanks (as compared to the rest of the team) THIS YEAR <--- '59s words, not mine.

incidentally, McCann is having a pretty good game tonight.....'59, where art thou?


Go hold '59s hand...I think he needs some reassurance.

 

[yankeesince59]

 

[Rick2583]

Not taking sides but off the top of my head I can think of a few catchers around the league that IMO I'd take over Martin.

Don't know the numbers off hand but aside from Posey, I'd say the Kid in Atlanta I think his name is Gattis. Mesoraco of the Reds, Molina of the Cards, Lucroy of the Brewers, Gomes of the Indians & though he's hurt even Wieters of the Orioles. But like I said, JMO.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

_______________________________

Okay, then we'll use Buster Posey, '59s only answer- a catcher who looks like he's on the path to a Hall of Fame career as being the only catcher besides Martin as being the only other "exceptional" offensive catcher from 2006 until 2014.

And that's that!

'59 bit off more than he can chew. He's trying to muddy the waters with semantics - I say RUSSELL MARTIN could be called an exceptional offensive catcher - this year, and career-wise... and certainly a GOOD offensive catcher. You're not going to put up a big Jesus billboard saying nasty things about me are you?

rotfl

Are you one of those many who disagree with me when I say the Yankees' catchers haven't been a problem for the Yanks (as compared to the rest of the team) THIS YEAR <--- '59s words, not mine.

incidentally, McCann is having a pretty good game tonight.....'59, where art thou?


Go hold '59s hand...I think he needs some reassurance.

Nope, its: neither either..... it takes a Team to win and lose. Last I checked a Team consists of 9 players, all who have not played decent enough to our high standards, of past Yankee Lore....

 

[blgridesagain]

Nope, its: neither either..... it takes a Team to win and lose. Last I checked a Team consists of 9 players, all who have not played decent enough to our high standards, of past Yankee Lore....

____________________


Fine with me....but, Ellsbury has had a very decent season.

 

[Rick2583]

____________________


Fine with me....but, Ellsbury has had a very decent season.

So what do you think of the players I gave you in post #55?

 

[totus44]

___________________________________

Martin is a good all-around catcher, exceptional offensive catcher - but the catcher's spot hasn't been a big problem for the Yanks - McCann's numbers aren't all that bad for a 6th-7th place hitter(where he should be batting) and Cervelli certainly doesn't embarrass himself with the stick.
Beltran, Tex and 3b have been very weak in the power/run producing department. I kinda wish the Yanks' would've kept Grandy. If anyone has a swing made for the Stadium, it's Grandy. And he was very comfortable here.

Bold for emphasis. First error was using the term "exceptional". Second error is that the structure of your phrase implies that that catcher spot wasn't an issue in reference to Martin. You further made that point by stating after the hyphen that McCann isn't bad (sic) either.

Three pages of posts later and you still cling to being called on these over reaches. I tried to give you an out here and you doubled down on a bigger shovel. There isn't a guy here banging on you that hasn't had to admit the mistake and move on. I'm not even gonna get into the Grandy thing...

 

[totus44]

Last exceptional offensive Yankee catcher was Jorge Posada, in 2003 & 2007.