Kaman Decision (2 Viewers)

[Orion Bailey]

I actually agree with you on everything, but if you have the chance to improve your team you take it. The likes bugged me because it showed fans were against improving the talent level of this team.

Okay, I lied, one more comment, only because you seem to be coming around. At first you argued most of what I said that Riverman reiterated.
What I don't get is just because someone liked the post, which never said to NOT improve the team, you think that we don't want to improve?
Like I said, that Riverman backed up and you now agree with,
KAMAN has value on this team, more than any other team, because of what he has already proven.
AGAIN, if there is a trade to bring in someone better to improve the team, I think we can find another way around to make the trade happen, rather than letting Kaman go. Maybe I am wrong, maybe not. But all of this was said already, and you keep dodging the statements but arguing the topic.

 

[BonesJones]

If we're so focused on developing a guy who will play 15 minutes a game that we pass up on increasing our talent level, then we'll never contend. That's my point. If we don't have the chance to improve by getting rid of Kaman then of course you keep him.

 

[blue9]

If I disagree with your opinion I'm wrong? Haha.

It's not an opinion. Meyers has credited Kaman with his development.

 

[BonesJones]

Okay, I lied, one more comment, only because you seem to be coming around. At first you argued most of what I said that Riverman reiterated.
What I don't get is just because someone liked the post, which never said to NOT improve the team, you think that we don't want to improve?
Like I said, that Riverman backed up and you now agree with,
KAMAN has value on this team, more than any other team, because of what he has already proven.
AGAIN, if there is a trade to bring in someone better to improve the team, I think we can find another way around to make the trade happen, rather than letting Kaman go. Maybe I am wrong, maybe not. But all of this was said already, and you keep dodging the statements but arguing the topic.

when did I ever said Kaman had no value?! All I said is I don't think he had as MUCH of an impact on Meyers as you guys think. And that if getting rid of Kaman improves the team then you do it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

If we're so focused on developing a guy who will play 15 minutes a game that we pass up on increasing our talent level, then we'll never contend. That's my point. If we don't have the chance to improve by getting rid of Kaman then of course you keep him.

I think most people around here see enough potential in Meyers to be much more than this. Who ever said that we want him to be a 15 minute a night guy? But then again you love to twist things around for your own... benefit?
Obviously we don't keep Kaman around to mentor if that's all we think Meyers will be come. I think the PURPOSE of mentoring, is so he can become more than that???

 

[BonesJones]

It's not an opinion. Meyers has credited Kaman with his development.

but to say he won't improve at the same rate without Kaman is an opinion

 

[BonesJones]

I think most people around here see enough potential in Meyers to be much more than this. Who ever said that we want him to be a 15 minute a night guy? But then again you love to twist things around for your own... benefit?
Obviously we don't keep Kaman around to mentor if that's all we think Meyers will be come. I think the PURPOSE of mentoring, is so he can become more than that???

I don't think he's a 5, and we have Aldridge. Soooo

 

[Orion Bailey]

when did I ever said Kaman had no value?! All I said is I don't think he had as MUCH of an impact on Meyers as you guys think. And that if getting rid of Kaman improves the team then you do it.

You didn't. Im just trying to play the same game your playing.

 

[BonesJones]

And I'm thinking about how we could contend in the next couple years not developing one guy for years from now

 

[BonesJones]

You didn't. Im just trying to play the same game your playing.

no you don't understand the point in trying to make. There's no "games" being played.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't think he's a 5, and we have Aldridge. Soooo

He can do a bit of both and he is much younger than Lamarsha, who we are NOT guaranteed to have next year.

This is it. My opinion and you can chew it up and spit it out. You keep Kaman another year for end of bench security and mentoring. If LMA stays, then Kaman is gone after next year and Meyers is a decent backup. If LMA goes, then why wouldn't we want to put more into Meyers?
We don't know if LMA will be here or not by the time the decision on Kaman is completed, so we have to take a chance. I would rather take a chance on Kaman who is proven, than an xfactor...OBVIOUSLY unless we can package him for someone who is virtually guaranteed to improve us. But I laugh at that. Enough threads around pointing out that what we need and what is REALISTICALLY available, wont require Kaman as an integral part of the trade.

 

[BonesJones]

He can do a bit of both and he is much younger than Lamarsha, who we are NOT guaranteed to have next year.

This is it. My opinion and you can chew it up and spit it out. You keep Kaman another year for end of bench security and mentoring. If LMA stays, then Kaman is gone after next year and Meyers is a decent backup. If LMA goes, then why wouldn't we want to put more into Meyers?
We don't know if LMA will be here or not by the time the decision on Kaman is completed, so we have to take a chance. I would rather take a chance on Kaman who is proven, than an xfactor...OBVIOUSLY unless we can package him for someone who is virtually guaranteed to improve us. But I laugh at that. Enough threads around pointing out that what we need and what is REALISTICALLY available, wont require Kaman as an integral part of the trade.

if LA leaves then you certainly keep Kaman because you're rebuilding anyways and then itd make sense to develop Meyers for down the road. I'm just thinking about how to contend in the next couple years. Obviously it'd be tricky to upgrade Kaman, I just disagreed with people who said they would say no to a better backup center because of Meyers

 

[magnifier661]

We'd get moderate improvement (hopefully!) at the C position and take a HUGE step backwards at the SF position.
To go along with that, the only player that gets our C involved in the offense on a consistent basis is Nic. So while Hibbert might provide better defense than Rolo, we'll lose ~6 points that Rolo gets off of good set-ups from Nic.

What if we have Rolo and Hibbert?

 

[BonesJones]

What if we have Rolo and Hibbert?

personally I'd rather have contrasting styles at center and a more efficient big to put next to LMA

 

[blue9]

What if we have Rolo and Hibbert?

What if? They can't play together. We're already pretty stacked at C with Lopez, Meyers, Kaman, and LMA all able to play the position. I don't think it makes ANY sense to moderately improve at C while going from a Top 5ish SF to a barely serviceable SF.
The only way I want Hibbert is if we get rid of LMA and get Monroe. And we wouldn't (necessarily) need to trade Nic to make that happen.

 

[magnifier661]

If I disagree with your opinion I'm wrong? Haha.

Seems like everyone that disagrees with you is wrong. You wear that argumentative hat quite well. Will say it rubs off as very douche and pompous btw.

 

[BonesJones]

Seems like everyone that disagrees with you is wrong. You wear that argumentative hat quite well. Will say it rubs off as very douche and pompous btw.

if it rubs off that way, then fine. I was boldly stating my opinion. Even if I think the other person is wrong, an opinion is still an opinion and you're not wrong just because you have a different one then me.

 

[magnifier661]

if it rubs off that way, then fine. I was boldly stating my opinion. Even if I think the other person is wrong, an opinion is still an opinion and you're not wrong just because you have a different one then me.

It's not "boldly stating your opinion". It's how you shoot down anything who disagrees with you like they don't know shit. If you think that's fine then I don't know what to say.

 

[Orion Bailey]

if it rubs off that way, then fine. I was boldly stating my opinion. Even if I think the other person is wrong, an opinion is still an opinion and you're not wrong just because you have a different one then me.

Herein lies the problem. Meyers HIMSELF said that Kaman was a big help to him, so doesn't that make it a fact that Meyers improvement can be at least partially attributed to Kaman? Meyers is saying its a fact and your arguing its an opinion. I think Meyers knows more about what has helped him than you.
These BOLD opinions you have are arguing FACTS that players have stated and that's what makes you sound pompous and makes it seem like you don't really read anyone's post in this thread, other than what you WANT to argue with.

This is my opinion, not a fact.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

he progressed so much this past year if he "progressed" at the same rate for the next 3 years he'd be an MVP candidate. Do you guys actually think thatll happen? I don't think you guys give Meyers enough credit for his development. He works his ass off

Meyers was the one giving credit to Kaman though...

Not us...

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

If we're so focused on developing a guy who will play 15 minutes a game that we pass up on increasing our talent level, then we'll never contend. That's my point. If we don't have the chance to improve by getting rid of Kaman then of course you keep him.

This is great because in another thread you didn't like my Meyers trade idea because you said he has double double written all over him..

Pick one...

So, should we focus on developing him so he can reach that potential, and become that player that increases our overall talent level while retaining a pretty good backup in Kaman or should we cast him aside, as well as Kaman, to get that extra talent?

It seems that your confused on what kind of player you think Meyers will be, as it appears you want to let Kaman go for another back up big (brand an wright previous example) but doesn't that further hinder Meyers and his PT, and that potential you were so adamant about? I believe you said 16 and 10.

(REFER TO THE GET RID OF BATUM THREAD FOR YOUR OWN WORDS ON MEYERS)

 

[RR7]

this thread went all O-Live. damn

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Guys, while kaman has been great for Leonard's development, you guys are acting like Leonard is a five year old that can't find his own way.

I've had two amazing mentors in my life. Unexpectedly, they both left around a Years period of time. I still communicate with them, one of them even moved out of state. My career has continued to chug along, even just got a new better job.

Leonard will be fine with or without kaman. Hes ready to take that next step.

How did dame do last year without mo will?

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Keep kaman if it makes sense. If a deal is on the table that provides an upgrade to the starting lineup, and the team wants kaman for immediate salary relief, You do it!!!!! youdon't say Damn, that player would fit great here, but we have to keep a guy making five million to coach a young player that will likely improve on his own.

If nothing like that happens, you keep him.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I actually agree with you on everything, but if you have the chance to improve your team you take it. The likes bugged me because it showed fans were against improving the talent level of this team.

This is the key that is getting so many people to comment on this I think.

How on earth do you get that no one wants to improve the team because they liked the post? That is grabbing at straws and you have been since you posted that statement.

Me as a Blazer fan was a bit put off, honestly. Lets be serious for a moment. do you REALLY think that any Blazer fan doesn't want to improve the team?
Your opinions are yours and I respect that, but when you make statements like that, you better believe Blazer fans are gonna come back at ya.

Ill give it a rest, because I honestly think we are all probably closer to being on the same page than any of this reads. Its just that you dissected my post and picked on things without referencing other portions of the post that offset what you were trying to dissect.

I got respect for ya Bones, your a Blazer fan and you want the best for the team. Cant knock that, but wasn't it someone famous that said sometimes opinions are better left unsaid?

 

[e_blazer]

How did dame do last year without mo will?

Hmm...now that you mention it, not as well as the year before...at least the second half of the season. Maybe you're on to something here.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Hmm...now that you mention it, not as well as the year before...at least the second half of the season. Maybe you're on to something here.

My point is he still made the all star game and kept chugging along. He didn't crawl into a shell and act like a five year old. Give Leonard some credit, he is a man finding his way. He doesn't need a daddy to hold his hand

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

My point is he still made the all star game and kept chugging along. He didn't crawl into a shell and act like a five year old. Give Leonard some credit, he is a man finding his way. He doesn't need a daddy to hold his hand

I don't think anyone has said Meyers will regress or needs his hand held. Just that by his own admission, Kaman has helped him and will keep helping him, so in order to just save 5 mill salary for no reason, it wouldn't make sense to just let him go.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I don't think anyone has said Meyers will regress or needs his hand held. Just that by his own admission, Kaman has helped him and will keep helping him, so in order to just save 5 mill salary for no reason, it wouldn't make sense to just let him go.

You can't definitely say it's for no reason. You don't know what Olshey wants to do. He might have plans with cap space this offseason.

I agree that a five million expiring deal is fine if you can't use it now to upgrade, but you're forgetting he needs to make Aldridge happy. Will lma be happy with the same team? Or does he want Olshey swinging for the fences again where Olshey needs more flexibility this offseason

 

[BonesJones]

Herein lies the problem. Meyers HIMSELF said that Kaman was a big help to him, so doesn't that make it a fact that Meyers improvement can be at least partially attributed to Kaman? Meyers is saying its a fact and your arguing its an opinion. I think Meyers knows more about what has helped him than you.
These BOLD opinions you have are arguing FACTS that players have stated and that's what makes you sound pompous and makes it seem like you don't really read anyone's post in this thread, other than what you WANT to argue with.

This is my opinion, not a fact.

this year he did help a lot. Problem is going forward I'm not sure how much more Kaman can help. The jumps Meyers made this year were basic fundamentals and confidence. Two things a vet can teach well.