Kiki to draft Nikoloz Tskitishvili AGAIN!

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ahhh so its possible! hey isnt brand from NY? so playin in NJ wouldnt be that far from home
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 17 2008, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 17 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If an American player had done the same thing...ANY of them...this board would be declaring him a hero.

If Russell Westbrook had done it, or Joe Alexander had done it, everyone would be thrilled. But because he's EUROPEAN, he is suspect. His motives are suspect, his game is suspect, his toughness is suspect.

He is trying to manipulate the draft so he can play for the NETS...one of the top players in the draft and the top young player in Europe wants to play for the NETS. Oh, but wait, he's not one of US.

I don't give a damn if the Nets take him or not. I like him, but if it came down to him and Brook Lopez, I would take Lopez. but goddamnit, show some respect to someone who wants to play for your team. (Not to mention that so many of the kids above him are no where near his level of accomplishment...some of them have played one year in a shitty conference and are being rated on potential...)

Tiresome.</div>
Again, we're a pathetic franchise but I'm not going to bend over backwards just because some likes us. Even ugly girls should have standards.

If Westbrook or Alexander would have done it, it wouldn't look the same, because they have plus athleticism -- which he doesn't.
</div>

This is pathetic...not the franchise. Bend over backwards? What the hell does that mean? We're not going to accept a player who is and has been viewed as a top draft choice for the entire year? The Nets didn't work him out against anyone else. So what? Vandeweghe flew to Europe TWICE to see him play. Their international scout, Rob Meurs, has scouted him for years. THEY LIKE HIM.

Yet you make this incredibly arrogant and simply silly point that "WE" are not going to bend. We? Bend? There is a personal agenda here and you damn well know it.

Screw athleticism. More guys have been busts because of their great "upside potential" than any other reason. Alexander can't shoot. Less than 30% from the college three point line? He isn't a great ball-handler either.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 17 2008, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 17 2008, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 17 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If an American player had done the same thing...ANY of them...this board would be declaring him a hero.

If Russell Westbrook had done it, or Joe Alexander had done it, everyone would be thrilled. But because he's EUROPEAN, he is suspect. His motives are suspect, his game is suspect, his toughness is suspect.

He is trying to manipulate the draft so he can play for the NETS...one of the top players in the draft and the top young player in Europe wants to play for the NETS. Oh, but wait, he's not one of US.

I don't give a damn if the Nets take him or not. I like him, but if it came down to him and Brook Lopez, I would take Lopez. but goddamnit, show some respect to someone who wants to play for your team. (Not to mention that so many of the kids above him are no where near his level of accomplishment...some of them have played one year in a shitty conference and are being rated on potential...)

Tiresome.</div>
Again, we're a pathetic franchise but I'm not going to bend over backwards just because some likes us. Even ugly girls should have standards.

If Westbrook or Alexander would have done it, it wouldn't look the same, because they have plus athleticism -- which he doesn't.
</div>

This is pathetic...not the franchise. Bend over backwards? What the hell does that mean? We're not going to accept a player who is and has been viewed as a top draft choice for the entire year? The Nets didn't work him out against anyone else. So what? Vandeweghe flew to Europe TWICE to see him play. Their international scout, Rob Meurs, has scouted him for years. THEY LIKE HIM.

Yet you make this incredibly arrogant and simply silly point that "WE" are not going to bend. We? Bend? There is a personal agenda here and you damn well know it.

Screw athleticism. More guys have been busts because of their great "upside potential" than any other reason. Alexander can't shoot. Less than 30% from the college three point line? He isn't a great ball-handler either.
</div>
Bend over backwards = not criticize him because he LIKES us. OMG, he likes us??!?! Let's overlook flaws because he wants to play with a second-rate franchise!

Kiki saw him play against inferior defenders. How well will he be able to score against good NBA defenders? There's a world of difference. I think he can play in this league, but he won't be a primary scorer.. there's better options at 10.

Yes, I'm incredibly arrogant, but you aren't. That's just high comedy right there.

Where did I say I liked Alexander? LOL man, you are really reaching now.

I absolutely love that well-founded criticism based on what he's shown me is "pathetic" and is obviously due to me being racist. I love it. Keep it coming, please.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danxcr @ Jun 17 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ahhh so its possible! hey isnt brand from NY? so playin in NJ wouldnt be that far from home
</div>

Yeah, he's from Peekskill, not too far from NJ at all.
 
The more I watch Boston dismantle the Lakers the more I want the Nets to draft a solid defender (or 2). I hope Westbrook drops and the Nets take him.

I agree with Dumpy's comment about Gallinari being a lot like Boki.

Let's get an identity and stop all this best player available shit. Everyone is in agreement that the players available from #8 or 9 down to about 20 aren't drastically far apart talentwise. So let's get some guys that will A) fit together B) fill team needs and C) make the whole better than the parts.

This patchwork bullshit of selecting mismatching parts because they are the "best player available" or "best free agent we can get without paying the luxury tax" is getting tiresome. You could get away with when you had Kidd here (and he cared) because he was that good a player, but even then we weren't winning anything.

The Nets Finals teams, the Spurs, Pistons, Boston all have two things in common: 1) played great defense and 2) they had players that complimented one anothers' skills.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 17 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The more I watch Boston dismantle the Lakers the more I want the Nets to draft a solid defender (or 2). I hope Westbrook drops and the Nets take him.

I agree with Dumpy's comment about Gallinari being a lot like Boki.

Let's get an identity and stop all this best player available shit. Everyone is in agreement that the players available from #8 or 9 down to about 20 aren't drastically far apart talentwise. So let's get some guys that will A) fit together B) fill team needs and C) make the whole better than the parts.

This patchwork bullshit of selecting mismatching parts because they are the "best player available" or "best free agent we can get without paying the luxury tax" is getting tiresome. You could get away with when you had Kidd here (and he cared) because he was that good a player, but even then we weren't winning anything.

The Nets Finals teams, the Spurs, Pistons, Boston all have two things in common: 1) played great defense and 2) they had players that complimented one anothers' skills.</div>Heh, I agree. No matter how much I actually like Gallinari, it may take him a few years to become a decent defender -- if ever.
Almost every great franchise or a championship team had a good, versatile defender at the 3 spot. NJ should do all they can to get Elton Brand, then draft a solid defensive wing.
 
westbrook would be a dream come tru... but danilo wouldnt be that bad... at 6-9 he would be an oversized SF really... and if he should get open shots with being teammates with harris and vc, question is... what are our chances of actually gettin brand...

BRAND should be our #1 priority this off season :/ we need a low post threat, and brand can give us that and MORE ( leadership and good personality in the locker room)
 
What's with people popping boners over athleticism?

The most athletic player in the draft 2006, James White....remember him? The guy who can jump from the free throw line, and do windmills and through the legs. Remember what happened to him? Got drafted at 31, got a couple chances with teams...but is now out of the league.

So what the hell is so great about that athleticism?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What's with people popping boners over athleticism?

The most athletic player in the draft 2006, James White....remember him? The guy who can jump from the free throw line, and do windmills and through the legs. Remember what happened to him? Got drafted at 31, got a couple chances with teams...but is now out of the league.

So what the hell is so great about that athleticism?</div>
Kobe Bryant is also athletic -- the truth lies somewhere in between.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What's with people popping boners over athleticism?

The most athletic player in the draft 2006, James White....remember him? The guy who can jump from the free throw line, and do windmills and through the legs. Remember what happened to him? Got drafted at 31, got a couple chances with teams...but is now out of the league.

So what the hell is so great about that athleticism?</div>
Kobe Bryant is also athletic -- the truth lies somewhere in between.
</div>

Athleticism doesn't make you a star player. It's a good trait to have in basketball, that's all.
Non-athleticism doesn't make you a bust. It's a disadvantage but not a major one by any means, if you have the skills to make up for it.
 
this guy is just another nachbar. where does he fit on this team???

i would draft him and package him along with some other peices and try and make a serious move.

that video showed me nothing special at all!!!!! terrible defense being played and his play wasnt that great or aggressive.

he actually reminded me of kvh early years.

i am wary of kiki's draft choices though. he loves euros! remember he wanted darko instead of carmelo!!!
 
I love how people always rag on the competition that European prospects play against ("Oh that's just against Italian defenders, he'll never be able to do that in the NBA!"). Where does that criticism go when we evaluate college prospects? The fact is that, this is a risk you take with every single player you draft: can they translate their skills to the NBA level? If anything, most of these European prospects have a better chance because they play against much tougher competition.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 18 2008, 08:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love how people always rag on the competition that European prospects play against ("Oh that's just against Italian defenders, he'll never be able to do that in the NBA!"). Where does that criticism go when we evaluate college prospects? The fact is that, this is a risk you take with every single player you draft: can they translate their skills to the NBA level? If anything, most of these European prospects have a better chance because they play against much tougher competition.</div>
Some college teams rely heavily on defense because they all don't have the star athletes. A lot of college coaches know defense wins games so I wouldn't necessarily say the Europeans play against better competition just because they get paid as "professioinals".

Not knocking all Euro players or teams, just stating that because they are paid it doesn't meant they must face better competition.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Jun 18 2008, 06:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What's with people popping boners over athleticism?

The most athletic player in the draft 2006, James White....remember him? The guy who can jump from the free throw line, and do windmills and through the legs. Remember what happened to him? Got drafted at 31, got a couple chances with teams...but is now out of the league.

So what the hell is so great about that athleticism?</div>
Kobe Bryant is also athletic -- the truth lies somewhere in between.
</div>

Athleticism doesn't make you a star player. It's a good trait to have in basketball, that's all.
Non-athleticism doesn't make you a bust. It's a disadvantage but not a major one by any means, if you have the skills to make up for it.
</div>Athleticism is a tool like anything else. Not having it limits your upside. I think Gallinari can play in this league but not as a top player, so I’d rather go elsewhere at 10.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Jun 18 2008, 06:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What's with people popping boners over athleticism?

The most athletic player in the draft 2006, James White....remember him? The guy who can jump from the free throw line, and do windmills and through the legs. Remember what happened to him? Got drafted at 31, got a couple chances with teams...but is now out of the league.

So what the hell is so great about that athleticism?</div>
Kobe Bryant is also athletic -- the truth lies somewhere in between.
</div>

Athleticism doesn't make you a star player. It's a good trait to have in basketball, that's all.
Non-athleticism doesn't make you a bust. It's a disadvantage but not a major one by any means, if you have the skills to make up for it.
</div>Athleticism is a tool like anything else. Not having it limits your upside. I think Gallinari can play in this league but not as a top player, so I’d rather go elsewhere at 10.
</div>
Maybe that's where a lot of our opinions differ.

You're looking for that next star. In my opinion getting a star has a lot more to do with luck than skill. I would be perfectly content if Gallinari turned into a solid career backup SF who can play well for 20 mins. My expectations are lower. I just don't want to get a bust.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 18 2008, 09:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 18 2008, 08:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love how people always rag on the competition that European prospects play against ("Oh that's just against Italian defenders, he'll never be able to do that in the NBA!"). Where does that criticism go when we evaluate college prospects? The fact is that, this is a risk you take with every single player you draft: can they translate their skills to the NBA level? If anything, most of these European prospects have a better chance because they play against much tougher competition.</div>
Some college teams rely heavily on defense because they all don't have the star athletes. A lot of college coaches know defense wins games so I wouldn't necessarily say the Europeans play against better competition just because they get paid as "professioinals".

Not knocking all Euro players or teams, just stating that because they are paid it doesn't meant they must face better competition.
</div>
Well the talent level is usually much better in the Euroleagues than in the NCAA. When prospects are able to play well in that setting, I find it to be more impressive than some player racking up stats against players that mostly have no basketball future. I mean, aside from the true stars that'll be in the NBA, the rest of the really good college players will find themselves playing in Europe anyways. That's basically what I was referring to. There seems to be this notion that the accomplishments of European prospects are less significant because they play against shitty Europeans.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Jun 18 2008, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I guess no one wants to draft Deandre Jordan because he's black.</div>

I love black people! Especially your mom, she's so cool.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 18 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well the talent level is usually much better in the Euroleagues than in the NCAA. When prospects are able to play well in that setting, I find it to be more impressive than some player racking up stats against players that mostly have no basketball future. I mean, aside from the true stars that'll be in the NBA, the rest of the really good college players will find themselves playing in Europe anyways. That's basically what I was referring to. There seems to be this notion that the accomplishments of European prospects are less significant because they play against shitty Europeans.</div>


I agree. Young Euros usually have to face older, smarter, better, and pretty much more experienced competition than in the NCAA. You find a young Euro who can thrive with those conditions....he's at least got a chance in the NBA of making some noise.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Jun 18 2008, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I guess no one wants to draft Deandre Jordan because he's black.</div>

I love black people! Especially your mom, she's so cool.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 18 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well the talent level is usually much better in the Euroleagues than in the NCAA. When prospects are able to play well in that setting, I find it to be more impressive than some player racking up stats against players that mostly have no basketball future. I mean, aside from the true stars that'll be in the NBA, the rest of the really good college players will find themselves playing in Europe anyways. That's basically what I was referring to. There seems to be this notion that the accomplishments of European prospects are less significant because they play against shitty Europeans.</div>


I agree. Young Euros usually have to face older, smarter, better, and pretty much more experienced competition than in the NCAA. You find a young Euro who can thrive with those conditions....he's at least got a chance in the NBA of making some noise.
</div>but not better defenders.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree. Young Euros usually have to face older, smarter, better, and pretty much more experienced competition than in the NCAA. You find a young Euro who can thrive with those conditions....he's at least got a chance in the NBA of making some noise.</div>
Have you ever watched any euroleague games? Even highlights? I haven't watched a ton of games, but i've seen some. There's a lot of bad defense being played over there. It's just not something that the coaches emphasize. Look at D'Antoni as an example.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 18 2008, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree. Young Euros usually have to face older, smarter, better, and pretty much more experienced competition than in the NCAA. You find a young Euro who can thrive with those conditions....he's at least got a chance in the NBA of making some noise.</div>
Have you ever watched any euroleague games? Even highlights? I haven't watched a ton of games, but i've seen some. There's a lot of bad defense being played over there. It's just not something that the coaches emphasize. Look at D'Antoni as an example.
</div>
Yep, by the same token, if someone is lauded as a good defender in Europe, I would be more likely to believe their defensive skills would translate to the NBA.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 18 2008, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree. Young Euros usually have to face older, smarter, better, and pretty much more experienced competition than in the NCAA. You find a young Euro who can thrive with those conditions....he's at least got a chance in the NBA of making some noise.</div>
Have you ever watched any euroleague games? Even highlights? I haven't watched a ton of games, but i've seen some. There's a lot of bad defense being played over there. It's just not something that the coaches emphasize. Look at D'Antoni as an example.
</div>

There's a lot of bad defense being played in the US, too.

You're underrating European teams. They play very good team defense. Just because everyone on the team doesn't play top-notch Bruce Bowen defense, doesn't mean they don't know how to stop a team from scoring.
 
I think eventually you have to realize that not every player in the NCAA plays NBA-caliber defense...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 18 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think eventually you have to realize that not every player in the NCAA plays NBA-caliber defense...</div>
No one said that. Italian defense is inferior, though. And he will not be able to pull of those weak moves in the league.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 18 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think eventually you have to realize that not every player in the NCAA plays NBA-caliber defense...</div>
No one said that. Italian defense is inferior, though. And he will not be able to pull of those weak moves in the league.
</div>

Neither one is comparable to the NBA, so personally I think it's a moot point.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 18 2008, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 18 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think eventually you have to realize that not every player in the NCAA plays NBA-caliber defense...</div>
No one said that. Italian defense is inferior, though. And he will not be able to pull of those weak moves in the league.
</div>

Neither one is comparable to the NBA, so personally I think it's a moot point.
</div>
NCAA > Italian by far
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 18 2008, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 18 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think eventually you have to realize that not every player in the NCAA plays NBA-caliber defense...</div>
No one said that. Italian defense is inferior, though. And he will not be able to pull of those weak moves in the league.
</div>

Neither one is comparable to the NBA, so personally I think it's a moot point.
</div>
NCAA > Italian by far
</div>
o rly?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meltz1 @ Jun 18 2008, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 18 2008, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrooklynBound @ Jun 18 2008, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 18 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think eventually you have to realize that not every player in the NCAA plays NBA-caliber defense...</div>
No one said that. Italian defense is inferior, though. And he will not be able to pull of those weak moves in the league.
</div>

Neither one is comparable to the NBA, so personally I think it's a moot point.
</div>
NCAA > Italian by far
</div>
o rly?
</div>
Ok, you're right. Italian defense is superior. Sure.
 
Italian leagues aren't all Italian players. There's probably quite a few names that you'd recognize as college stars a couple years back.
 
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