Knicks nix Rudy trade

[Minstrel]

Yes, a better team. When you jettison unhappy or problem players or players that can't make those around them better you may not always get "equal value", but you can add players that make the team better. Basketball is a team sport. The better the team is, the better your chances of winning. It's a sports thing, ya know.

Is winning relevant in this "team sport" you talk about? Because the wins dropped off sharply when players like Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells were jettisoned for pennies on the dollar. Was the team "better" despite losing more?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Is winning relevant in this "team sport" you talk about? Because the wins dropped off sharply when players like Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells were jettisoned for pennies on the dollar. Was the team "better" despite losing more?

Precisely my point. I mean I get it that some people find it as or more important for the team to be likable and for the players to be wholesome, palatable and innocuous, but for my money I'll take the wins.

 

[hasoos]

Is winning relevant in this "team sport" you talk about? Because the wins dropped off sharply when players like Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells were jettisoned for pennies on the dollar. Was the team "better" despite losing more?

Nice cherry picking of your choices of players to represent. Now what happened when Zbo hit the road? The record has gone nowhere but up.

I am sure anybody can find players being ditched and what happened afterwards to the teams record to support whatever argument they want to support. That is why general blanket statements are useless.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Nice cherry picking of your choices of players to represent. Now what happened when Zbo hit the road? The record has gone nowhere but up.

I am sure anybody can find players being ditched and what happened afterwards to the teams record to support whatever argument they want to support. That is why general blanket statements are useless.

Was Zach's replacement -- Channing -- more or less responsible for wins? We ate Steve Francis' contract and rented Chan-man for two years and in the meantime we've been desperate for interior scoring. I get why Zach was traded and I wasn't dead set against moving him, but I would hardly call unloading him for pennies on the dollar a notch in the win column as far as trades are concerned.

 

[Minstrel]

Nice cherry picking of your choices of players to represent. Now what happened when Zbo hit the road? The record has gone nowhere but up.

I wasn't cherry-picking, I was using the "era" of the team when good players were being dumped for the purpose of culture change. The on-court results were not good. If anything, you're cherry-picking by selecting a player who was jettisoned just as Roy and Aldridge were leading an upswing for the team.

The point is that there has yet to be any compelling evidence shown that teams are made better by getting rid of controversial players for little or nothing in return.

 

[Rhal]

Why are people in such a "Rush" to have Rudy traded for a middle/late first round Pick. We get that pick and what happens... that player will sit on our bench doing nothing, or maybe it'll be used as a throw in in a trade. If we can't find a good deal for Rudy hold onto him and trade him to a team that wants him with Pryz expiring for a better deal then just giving him away when we can just sit him on the bench and wait tell the trade deadline when teams looking for a good playoff birth or maybe making sure they enter the playoffs will be wiling to give up more for a sharpshooter then what they are willing to give up now.

 

[Minstrel]

Rudy for a mid-to-late first round pick seems about equivalent value to me. Thus, it wouldn't be any big deal to me whether such a deal were made or not.

Rudy for a lottery pick or for a young player like Randolph would be a big win for Portland.

Thus, I'm perfectly fine with Portland hanging onto Rudy if the offered deals are mid-to-kate first round pick or worse. If he raises his value sometime this season, maybe Portland can get a better deal (as they'll still have a minutes crunch even if he proves to be better than his showing last year). If he doesn't, it's not like they passed on a lot of value in return.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Is winning relevant in this "team sport" you talk about? Because the wins dropped off sharply when players like Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells were jettisoned for pennies on the dollar. Was the team "better" despite losing more?

Like I said. There are times a team (or a person in life) has to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. Getting rid of players like Wallace and Zach allowed us the freedom to rebuild quicker and more effectively.

 

[espn_hall_of_famer]

Like I said. There are times a team (or a person in life) has to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. Getting rid of players like Wallace and Zach allowed us the freedom to rebuild quicker and more effectively.

Still the inherent flaw is Rudy's being there vs. not being there doesn't impact the remaining 14 players even 0.1%. So there. He doesn't bring any baggage or negatives to the "team". Just an agent talking with management behind closed door and a guy that doesn't speak English either being there or not. So it's one step backwards for the same step back forward.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Still the inherent flaw is Rudy's being there vs. not being there doesn't impact the remaining 14 players even 0.1%.

I disagree. Here is how it may impact the team:

1) We didn't grossly overpay Matthews to ride the bench. He's going to get playing time and he's a pure SG. So is Rudy. So it's going to effect Nate's rotation by either playing one or both of them out of position (where players do not play as well as when they play their natural position), or try somehow and split the minutes. But when Nate does that he tends to get very inconsistent and that bodes poorly for all concerned- and hence the team. Not necessarily that it will cost us games, but the potential is very real with players playing both inconsistently and out of position.

2) If Rudy plays less (which is pretty much guaranteed with Matthews here) and if he cannot fulfill his wish of being more of a playmaker (another given), then he's clearly going to be more unhappy with his role on the team. Now maybe he'll be a good soldier about it all and maybe he won't. But I think it safe to say his agent will be causing waves and that can have a negative effect on a team.

3) Freeing up a roster spot could be a good thing in the event of injury... to add a player who might be able to contribute some minutes here and there.

On the other hand, Rudy Fernandez is not a major cog on this team. If he sits and sulks, then fine. But I fail to see the positives in it all.

 

[THE HCP]

If Nic goes down, you will be glad that we have Rudy. Keep him, he isn't a distraction in the locker room (he doesn't really talk to anybody anyway).

 

[gatorpops]

If Nic goes down, you will be glad that we have Rudy. Keep him, he isn't a distraction in the locker room (he doesn't really talk to anybody anyway).

I agree!

The only way I would trade Rudy to accommodate his desire to play more, is to, as with any player. upgrade the team.

Some have said that his play in FIBA has somehow diminished his value. His only real detraction's are his lack of strong man-on-man defense and his turn overs that Nate hates so much.

Look at his stats for these last five games. Good shooting % and very good rebounding for a guard. His shooting is much better than Nico's for the same period.

 

[hasoos]

Was Zach's replacement -- Channing -- more or less responsible for wins? We ate Steve Francis' contract and rented Chan-man for two years and in the meantime we've been desperate for interior scoring. I get why Zach was traded and I wasn't dead set against moving him, but I would hardly call unloading him for pennies on the dollar a notch in the win column as far as trades are concerned.

My point is you can make any situation say what you want if you only include what you want for information and cherry pick that information. Basketball is a team game, and the bodies coming to join a team mean a lot more. For instance, you talk about Channing Frye and what some other players who came in brought to the team. But then I can point out that was Brandon Roy's first year where he was the focus instead of Zbo. It was a combination of Zbo being moved and Roy becoming the focus that was important for the team improving. The NBA has a history of teams improving when the main guys on a team are replaced with better main guys. That is just the way it works. Out with the old, in with the new. It's a pattern repeated yearly.

It's also interesting how as time passes so many people on this board forget exactly how bad Zbo was for this team and city. It wasn't all about his play folks. It was about speeding down Broadway in a hummer with some guy smoking weed. It was about being brought to trial for tying up a hooker in a downtown Portland motel and not letting her leave. It was about lying and saying he felt ill and then going to the strip club and getting caught when he should have been with the team. Time makes bad memories fade. But they are still there if you bother to think back and dredge them up.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Nic goes down, you will be glad that we have Rudy. Keep him, he isn't a distraction in the locker room (he doesn't really talk to anybody anyway).

Except he isn't contributing. The guy did zero in the playoffs. He didn't shoot, he didn't drive, he didn't play defense.... he was just.... there. The whole reason we went out and signed Wes Matthews was because Rudy couldn't be counted on to contribute. Period.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

I think Rudy is past the point of no return on increasing his trade value. He is not gonna get any time over Matthews now. Bringing him back to rot on the bench is pointless and could actually worsen his trade value.

I'm surprised Rudy didn't wait til after the Worlds to demand a trade, because it would have been his best chance to increase his trade value and get this ass traded out of town.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Well, that's one way to piss off the NYK media and fan base. Way to go, Cho!

 

[illmatic99]

@JohnCanzanoBFT

Blazers still looking for a middle-first round pick for Rudy Fernandez. No rush to trade him... something tells me Rudy wants an NBA career about 1 hour ago via web

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

@JohnCanzanoBFT

This cancels out the teams rumored to be after him as the drafts picks of their own are all likely late first rounders.

 

[Blazer_Mullet_Man]

"on a team with no shooters"

Huh? Granted, shooting isn't exactly a strength of our at PG, but isn't it safe to say that Roy, Batum and LA are legit shooting threats from just about everywhere on the floor?

 

[Mr. J]

Terrible trade for us. Do people still think Isiah runs thing around here?

 

[illmatic99]

The Bulls have not given up hope of acquiring Rudy Fernandez from the Trail Blazers by trade.

Chicago and Portland have discussed a deal that would swap a first-round pick for Fernandez but the Blazers continue to hold out for more compensation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5530266&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

 

[RR7]

Seems the latest report about the Knicks offers was 2 second round picks for Rudy. Yeah, Cho sure is asking for too much, not accepting that. What a jack ass.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Seems the latest report about the Knicks offers was 2 second round picks for Rudy. Yeah, Cho sure is asking for too much, not accepting that. What a jack ass.

I'm livid. I mean I'm standing beside myself with apoplectic rage ... well not standing per se ... and I guess not enraged either ... but I'm definitely sitting, and mildly "harrumphing."

 

[illmatic99]

Pritchard and Walsh spoke in June, before the NBA Draft, about a swap of two second round picks for Fernandez, but Pritchard declined. There were rumors that Walsh offered Wilson Chander for Fernandez, but now we're hearing that Chandler wasn't offered. What's more accurate is that Chandler was mentioned as a player the Knicks believed they could move to get a first round pick if they wanted to.

Here's the catch: word is, via backchannels, that the Blazers want a high first round pick, meaning they don't want one that is lottery protected. That's an extremely high price to demand for a player whom everyone knows at this point is quite unhappy in Portland and clearly wants out.

Here's the catch, however: don't expect the Knicks to raise their offer. Two seconds, take it or leave it.

...Multiple sources tell me he hasn't talked to the Knicks. The most logical reason, as we've been told, is that the Blazers have little reason to send Fernandez where he wants to go, which is to New York, and will instead solicit better offers elsewhere.

Take this with a grain of salt, because this is the same dude who has been spreading all the rumors that he is now claiming as false.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baske...n-will-soon-reach-a-boil-1.2264853?print=true

 

[Nikolokolus]

Alan Hahn and Frank Isola are some of the biggest bullshitters out there. You can take this with a bag of salt.

 

[BGrantFan]

No wonder New York turned that down. Indiana gets a very nice deal, Portland gets a solid deal and New York gets shafted. I'm surprised it was structured as a three-way deal...I'd rather just have Randolph, so I don't know why Indiana needed to be involved. I'd reduce Cunningham to mop-up minutes and, in competitive games, play an 8-man rotation: Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Batum, Miller, Randolph, Camby, Bayless. Other players are there in case of injury or garbage time.

I wonder how close New York felt a Randolph-for-Rudy swap (as it would have been for them) is. I wouldn't mind adding in more to turn Rudy into Randolph.

I'm not sure I like Randolph for Portland, but his production and contract IMO make him a nice addition to the Joel/Millier deadline deal next February that brings back Chris Paul.

 

[BGrantFan]

I'm livid. I mean I'm standing beside myself with apoplectic rage ... well not standing per se ... and I guess not enraged either ... but I'm definitely sitting, and mildly "harrumphing."

Cho made Pritchard turn down two second-round picks? How does that work?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm not sure I like Randolph for Portland, but his production and contract IMO make him a nice addition to the Joel/Millier deadline deal next February that brings back Chris Paul.

What exactly is it that you don't like about Randolph? Is it that he butted heads with Don "ALANON" Nelson, or that he blocks 1.5 shots per game (in 22 minutes) and has Marcus Camby like potential and is only 20 years old?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Cho made Pritchard turn down two second-round picks? How does that work?

Well supposedly the two second round picks are still on the table, hence the "take it or leave it" quote in the story.

 

[BGrantFan]

What exactly is it that you don't like about Randolph? Is it that he butted heads with Don "ALANON" Nelson, or that he blocks 1.5 shots per game (in 22 minutes) and has Marcus Camby like potential and is only 20 years old?

He's limited offensively, he's not efficient on offense, and someone will overpay for him in two years. I didn't say he didn't have value, just not what Portland needs at this point, IMO. Plus, saying he has the potential of Camby is a reach, IMO.