Knicks suck balls

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Bridges, Anunoby and Towns are trash. Doubtful you can win a championship with them as a supporting cast for Brunson
 
Have to give the Knicks credit for their resilient gritty performance tonight. I thought it was going to be a blowout tonight, and down 20 it appeared to be heading in that direction, but the Knicks kept battling and got a huge win. Nothing but credit and kudos to the team, and Tibs, tonight, they deserve it.

I will say two things though to keep us grounded and focused as fans:

1. Tonight is a perfect example of why I don't think Tibs is the right coach. What worked tonight, even if it was out of necessity, he played the bench. 9 players played over 10 minutes, both Wright and Shamet gave them some solid minutes. This is what needs to happen every game, Tibs needs to play some of the bench guys a few minutes here and there. His absolute utter refusal to do so is one of his biggest short comings as a coach (and his team's lack of creativity on O). I saw someone get asked a question after the game about how Shamet and Wright stepped up for some solid minutes, and what was the difference with them, my answer to that question is super simple, Tibs actually gave them a chance. He needs to play the bench a bit going forward, if he doesn't and instead goes back to BAU, the Knicks will suffer as a result.

2. Great win, great fight, great battle back, great resiliency, saved their season for another game, all 100% true and cannot take one thing away from them. With that said, it means jack if they don't win game 4. That's just the reality of the hole the Knicks dug for themselves. If they lose game 4 and go down 3-1, the series is over, just like it would have been if they fell down 3-0. So, all is great tonight, awesome win, need to win game 4 to really make it matter, otherwise it's window dressing on a 5 or 6 game series loss.

As for game 4, I have no feel. I felt tonight was going to be a bad night, they came back and proved me wrong. I can see the Knicks winning game 4, and I can see the Pacers bouncing back with energy and passion at home and winning game 4, to me it's a game that can truly go either way and I wouldn't be surprised. After the game 1 epic collapse, maybe tonight's win gives the Knicks their mental mojo back though, which is a very good thing, and hopefully something they carry into game 4. Combine that with Tibs hopefully trusting/playing the bench again, and the hope/expectation that OG, Bridges, and Brunson all should play better (it would also be nice if the Knicks can stay out of foul trouble), and I think game 4 is wide open in another absolute must win for the Knicks.
 
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Great win and response from Towns in the 4th after the refs put Brunson in foul trouble early because that's what the fans want to see.
 
Tibs is 22-21 postseason as Knicks coach. I don't think he's been as bad as some have written, pro basketball players are the hardest to coach. The fact that the Knicks have come back from 3 20+ point deficits this year shows me that Tibs can keep the team motivated, pretty much the only job an NBA coach has. Suggesting that the Pacers coaching staff was responsible for hitting all those wild 3 pointers in the first game would be a conclusion that only the occasional Knicks viewer like Dump would come to, that was pure playground ball and impressive shooting. I don't see another coach coming in and transforming guys who have been marginal defenders their whole lives into stoppers.
 
This is Tibs 13th season as an NBA head coach. During that time his teams have reached the Conference Finals twice, with Chicago in his very first year as coach in 2010-2011, and now this season. His teams have never reached an NBA Finals. That's a solid record, and to me Tibs is a solid coach. I think he's built for teams that maybe aren't as talented, and he gets a lot out of them. BUT I don't think he is built for taking more talented teams all the way, and his career shows that IMO, two CF's in 13 years, 0 NBA Finals.

The way Tibs absolutely utterly refuses to play a bench is a humongous knock on him as a coach, and it's been that way his whole entire career. His teams are not great offensively either and really struggle with creativity and flow. He is so inflexible, and again it really hurts him as a coach. He has one way of doing things, and he isn't changing or tweaking that for anything.

I think game 4 is going to be a great test for Tibs. Will he stick with playing 9 guys 10 + minutes each, will he give Wright some time as a good defender, will he play Shamet again. These are all things I will be watching closely. If he goes back to a tight 7, playing McBride less than 20 minutes, I will not be happy, and once again will show who inflexible Tibs really is. I'm really going to be interested in seeing what Tibs does with the rotation in game 4, and beyond.

With all that said, make no mistake about it, Tibs is a good solid coach, borderline a very good coach, won't take that away from him. I don't think he's a great coach due to his inflexibility, and I question his ability to take a team all the way. He's also not Carlisle who has taken his teams to the Conference Finals 5 times, including this season, and won an NBA title as a coach with Dallas. It doesn't mean Carlisle is an all-time great coach or some mastermind, but his overall body of work is better than Tibs, and I think he's a very good coach, to Tibs who is a good solid coach.
 
No, my conclusion was you’re a pussy blaming the officials for the loss. lol. Dipshit Brunson had 5 fouls again last game. Maybe it’s not the officials.
 
What I'll be keeping an eye on tonight:

1. Stay close early. You figure the crowd will be pumped and the Pacers will come out with emotion. Don't get blown off the court in the first 10 minutes. Stay within range and it could bode well for the Knicks.
2. The Pacers were 5-25, 20%, from 3P range in game 3. You have to think they'll shoot a much better 3P% than that in game 4. Can the Knicks keep them somewhat in check to keep the game tight.
3. How does Tibs utilize the bench, he must give the starters some rest, and the bench some minutes. Going with # 2, I'd like to see Wright get 10 minutes +/- again since he is very solid on D. I think the Knicks will need some of his defensive tenacity in this game.

You have to give the Pacers a little edge going into the game you'd think, but if the Knicks can keep it tight, especially early, they can win it late. It's a winnable game if the Knicks play the right way, and Tibs coaches the right way, using his bench again. This is the game that very well may decide the series (must win for the Knicks).
 
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Yeah, Knicks D was non-existent tonight. The real killer were the turnovers though; you cannot have 17 TO's on the road in a must win game.

If you go number by number, the only big difference was TO's, 17 for the Knicks to 11 by the Pacers. Despite the Knicks out rebounding the Pacers 44 to 33, the Pacers still attempted 6 more shots than the Knicks, that's the difference right there and why the Knicks lost. There is almost no way to argue the Knicks lost this game due to sloppiness and mistakes (signs of a poorly coached team IMO).

When you look back at this series, the difference was the epic all-time collapse in game 1, if that doesn't happen, we are looking at a 2-2 series that either team can win. The way the Knicks lost game 1 was essentially the end of the series, as I unfortunately thought was the case at the time.

Looking forward, it's going to take every ounce of foresight and courage for Rose to fire Tibs off an ECF trip, but it really does have to happen. Can anyone say the Knicks as a team play up to their individual talent level, I think that's a huge NO. My best guess is Tibs does not get fired because most Pres/GM's don't fire coaches after Conference Finals trips, but if Rose is brave, and sees big picture, he will absolutely fire Tibs (which I said he should have done after last season). This team has gone as far as it can go with this coach, and his career track record tells you that as well. Please Rose don't be afraid to make the bold move needed at coach.

The other issue as I see it is Bridges; it really is the one big mistake Rose has made putting this team together. He traded FIVE first round picks for Bridges, FIVE. Can you imagine if the Knicks had those picks now, you could put Giannis in a Knicks uniform now and not even waste time waiting until July. BUT, dealing all those picks for a good to very good player in Bridges really puts the Knicks in a tough spot. They lack assets to improve, but they need another very good player to be a legit title contender. Not sure how Rose pulls a rabbit out of his hat here, but he needs to otherwise the Knicks are stuck in limbo of being a very good team, but not a championship team, and they have no picks to improve, the worst place to be. A new coach will help the team improve, but not enough to win a title, they need another very good player added to do that. I fear the Bridges trade will go down as the move that torpedoed the chances for this version of the Knicks to win a title. Turned out to be a very poor trade, good to very good Bridges, who is not even a great player let alone a star player, is not worth the star package Rose traded for him.

Anyway, it will be a very interesting 6 weeks +/- for the Knicks and Rangers. Rose and Drury are both in a position where big bold moves are needed, the Knicks at coach and adding another very good player, and the Rangers need major core changes. We'll see what these guys can do for either team to improve to legit title contenders next season.
 
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If that rose guy traded five picks for Bridges then he is a fucking moron who should never be trusted again to make a trade. lol If they knicks actually knew how to build through the draft then they would at least build a deeper team.
 
No wonder MSG teams have 1 championship combined in 50 years. God forbid, they would build the team the right way through the DRAFT.
 
It's not an if, it's a fact. Rose had been extremely patient building this team from the ground up, but he got antsy and lost his patience last summer, so he pulled the trigger on the Bridges trade, and it has turned out to be a really crushing mistake. If Rose didn't panic and make the Bridges trade, sure the Knicks wouldn't have made the ECF this season, but they would have those picks right now to trade for Giannis, who wants to play in NY, but the Knicks have no assets to trade for him. It really is not an ideal situation unfortunately.

I agree, common threads of these NY teams are lack of patience, go after big names, never build their teams the right way. It's a shame really. The Rangers started to do it and then jumped ship a year or two early. And unfortunately, Rose ran out of patience one year too early for the Knicks.
 
They could take Bridges, but my guess is the Bucks will want a future looking package with a lot of first round picks, that's sort of the way the NBA works now. BUT that's why I say unless Rose can pull a rabbit out of his hat. Maybe Rose can convince the Bucks to take everyone not named Brunson in a package OR maybe Rose can move Bridges or OG or even Towns for a boatload of picks then flip those to Milwaukee for Giannis OR maybe Rose can somehow get Durant or another very good player here while keeping the main core intact, Brunson, Towns, and OG (my guess is Bridges will have to go to add another very good player).

Not sure what he can do, but I will say I have WAY WAY WAY more confidence in Rose to get things done than I do Drury, so there's that. From there we'll see.
 
This is what decided the game (20-9 scoring edge off turnovers):

The Pacers had a huge 22-9 advantage in fast break points. They also converted the Knicks’ 17 turnovers into 20 points. Indiana only committed 11 turnovers, and the Knicks had just nine points off them.

Meanwhile, Haliburton had 15 assists and 0 turnovers.

Overall, in the series Brunson is a -26 and Bridges is a whopping -33, by far the two worst on the team. Just awful.
 
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Here are the details of the picks Rose traded to the Nets for Bridges. Five first round picks AND a pick swap in 2028. Clearly a star package for a good to very good player, not good value:
  • unprotected 1st-round pick in 2025
  • unprotected 1st-round pick in 2027
  • unprotected 1st-round pick in 2029
  • unprotected 1st-round pick in 2031
  • unprotected pick swap in 2028
  • top four protected 2025 1st-round pick via Bucks
  • 2nd round pick in 2025
I understand the mindset of eventually you have to shoot your shot; I also understand the clock was ticking on the team, and on the picks (two of the first-round picks are in the upcoming 2025 draft). So, Rose was in a tight spot, and I do get his overall thinking, it was just the wrong player who is not truly worthy of the star package return. Being patient and waiting for a better player was the smarter play rather than forcing a trade for a good to very good player, which is what Bridges is.
 
Theory is those picks are all going to be at the tail end of the first round...Milwaukee isn't going to want that
 
If I was Milwaukee, I would want Townes and Bridges plus Kolek. Giannis is going to dictate where he wants to go and he’s not gonna wanna go to Brooklyn. He wants to come to the Garden from what they’re saying. The Bucks are gonna try to put out a competitive team next year and with Bridges and Townes they can do that. I like Kolek a lot but the coach was a moron and didn’t even try to play him this year. They then have the option of trading those players later at the draft this year or next year and know exactly what pick they’re getting.
 
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When teams trade for a boatload of first round picks, they usually are in theory late in the first round, but in theory doesn't always work out that way. Not only could a team struggle when not expected to, see the Sixers this season, it also gives the team acquiring all those first round picks incredible assets to make a trade for a star player when they are ready/one is available. I think history is on my side here as you have seen MANY trades of top players for a boatload of picks the past few years, that's the current path for the worst teams in the league to bottom out and ultimately get better.

With that said, Milwaukee may not be in that position, they may want a semi-basketball trade like the Wolves did with Towns. Maybe a package of a boatload of first round picks isn't enticing to Milwaukee. I also agree that Giannis will have a HUGE say in where he goes, if he says he wants the Knicks, there is still a chance he could end up here. Not sure he will force Milwaukee's hand like that though and say Knicks or bust, Giannis doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to hold the organization over a barrel.

If Giannis does try and force their hand/the Bucks want a basketball trade, the Knicks do have assets starting with Bridges and Towns, and they could do some pick swaps as well. Where Giannis ends up you would think will be driven by a collaboration between the Bucks and Giannis. It's an interesting watch the next 6-8 weeks.

If not Giannis, Rose needs to focus on adding another very good player. I think Durant could be a fit at this stage in his career. He can be had for less than Giannis, and he is someone I can see forcing the Suns to trade him somewhere specific. Not sure if it will be NY, but I think it will be somewhere out of Phoenix.

Regardless of who it is, Rose needs to add another very good player (or a star greater than Towns to pair with Brunson if you have to move a Bridges and Towns for a Giannis), and I say fire Tibs. If he can pull off those two things, the Knicks could be a legit title contender next season, especially in what should be a totally wide-open East.
 
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Unless Towns is out OR mentally the Knicks have packed it in and accepted their fate, you'd think they'd win tonight at home. With that said, for those of us who want Tibs fired, it may be better if they lose tonight. Going out in a very weak 5 games to the Pacers might be the push Rose needs to fire Tibs. Plus, they would have gone 0-3 at home in the ECF, and 3-6 overall at home in these playoffs. Maybe the last straw for Rose to make the move.

Even if they do win tonight, they'll get rolled and run off the court in game 6 in Indiana, but at least they would salvage some respect. Losing in 5 and getting beaten at home again would be a really bad somewhat embarrassing look for the Knicks. It could be for a bigger greater good moving forward if they lose game 5 though as mentioned. I expect a Knicks win IF they have any battle remaining.
 
Giannis is 30. He's not a young man. He's had some injuries of late. I think they will try to make the playoffs next year if they trade him. Then rebuild the year after.
 
A+ effort tonight. Hopefully they can bring the same energy and intensity on D Saturday.
 
Good job by the Knicks showing up with pride tonight to at least force a game 6. You have to figure the pressure will be on Indiana in game 6, they really don't want to be back in NY for a game 7. Pretty strong chance the winner of game 6 wins the series.

As for game 6, I don't see the Knicks winning. I think there's a better chance the Pacers win big than the Knicks win. If you look the past couple of seasons, just about every time the Pacers lay an egg they come back really strong the next game. In order for the game to be close the Knicks have to play smarter and value the ball, even tonight they had 15 turnovers, way too many. You also know the Pacers will shoot much better from 3P range and overall, they'll score more than 100 points, and just about all their top guys will play much better in game 6.

In order for the Knicks to stay close, let alone win the game, they're going to need a herculean effort, better than anything we have seen in this series, and all playoffs outside of maybe game 6 against Boston. OG (OG needs to play with much more energy and passion in game 6 - we'll need him badly I think), Bridges, and Hart all have to show up with A+ efforts, and of course the two big guys, Towns and Brunson, need to be huge.

I thought the Knicks would win tonight as I said this morning, I just don't see them winning game 6, and I don't think it will be particularly close. I will say the first 7-10 minutes will be HUGE for the Knicks, they have to withstand the early barrage and energy from Indiana, cannot get blown out early. Stay in the game early, and then let the chips fall where they may.

At least we have a game 6 to watch, the only one of the Conference Finals in the NBA or NHL.
 
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I don't think the Knicks will win tonight, and I'd be surprised if it's a very close game. I see the Pacers raising their level bigtime from game 5, and the way they lost game 5 I think will actually be a benefit to the Pacers, better than if they lost a close hard-fought game. I can see a bunch of Pacers players bouncing back after very down performances in game 5, especially Haliburton.

If the Knicks want to have a shot at getting a win, I see these 5 things as the keys:

1. They have to value the ball and limit the turnovers; they are the lifeblood of the Pacers fast-paced transition scoring that has really hurt the Knicks in this series. Plus, it builds their confidence, it allows them to play their preferred style of fast-paced play, and it gets the crowd fired up. Ideally, they need to keep the turnovers around 12 +/-, and if they commit 15 or more, I think they'll have zero chance to win game 6 on the road.

2. They have to play with high energy and intensity, especially on D. The Pacers will be much more aggressive and attacking, and the Knicks need to match that and play in your face D. D up Haliburton full court.

3. Towns has to stay out of foul trouble. This is a big ask as he gets in foul trouble every game, but he has to raise his basketball IQ and be smarter, the Knicks need him on the court in this game especially.

4. They have to make their FT's at a high %, say 80% +, maybe even 85% +.

5. Tibs needs to keep playing the bench, going 9 strong with double digit minutes.

That's how I see game 6, let's see what the Knicks do. Getting off to a good start is super important IMO.
 
looks like Knicks will lose in 6 or win in 7. If they win tonight I don't see them losing game 7 at the garden. Although even if they win I have a hard time seeing them beating OKC 4 out of 7
 
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