Knicks suck balls (1 Viewer)

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It will be hard to win if Brunson continues playing like shit. At least, they're keeping it close. Someone above said, it won't be even a very close game. lol
 
This game played out almost exactly as I feared/expected it would. I am literally begging now, Rose please fire Tibs. I said it last season, and was brushed off, now I am begging for Tibs to be gone.

How many times did the Knicks get run out of the building to start the 2nd half, it happened numerous times. To me that is coaching adjustments at the half, one coach makes them, the other coach is Tibs.

Put some pressure on the Knicks, and they are even more lost on O than they are usually. It's like they have no plan at all to deal with it. It's dribble in circles and almost turn the ball over 3 times for 20 seconds, then toss up a low % flailing shot. Again, that is coaching.

Look at his career, Tibs has made the ECF twice in 13 seasons, and he's never made the Finals. He is a decent coach at best and can help a lesser team to win some games...why...because he has his teams play every game 1-82 like its game 7 of the NBA Finals. Then once every team plays that way in the playoffs, his teams collapse again and again. And when his team has more talent, they don't win anything because he wears them down and pounds them into the ground, refusing to play a bench. When it happens over and over and over again in his career, it's more than a trend, it's reality.

Tibs is the most inflexible coach I have ever seen. He coaches his way, he plays his players crazy minutes, and it doesn't matter what game it is, or what the talent level of his team is, or what their strengths are, he only knows one way to coach. He's stubborn as can be, and it has to end.

As I have stated before, do the Knicks as a whole play up to the individual talent on the roster...HELL NO.

Until they fire Tibs and get a coach in here that can take them all the way, it is pointless watching this team. It is going to be extremely difficult for Rose to have the foresight to fire Tibs off an ECF trip, but he has to. From the epic all-time embarrassing collapse (which essentially ended the series after game 1 as I rightly called out after game 1), to mistake after mistake, to not playing a bench, to sloppy stupid low IQ mistakes, to looking lost on O in general and especially against any sort of pressure, it is time.

I am begging, PLEASE ROSE, FIRE TIBS!!!
 
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NYR_94 said:
I don't think the Knicks will win tonight, and I'd be surprised if it's a very close game. I see the Pacers raising their level bigtime from game 5, and the way they lost game 5 I think will actually be a benefit to the Pacers, better than if they lost a close hard-fought game. I can see a bunch of Pacers players bouncing back after very down performances in game 5, especially Haliburton.

If the Knicks want to have a shot at getting a win, I see these 5 things as the keys:

1. They have to value the ball and limit the turnovers; they are the lifeblood of the Pacers fast-paced transition scoring that has really hurt the Knicks in this series. Plus, it builds their confidence, it allows them to play their preferred style of fast-paced play, and it gets the crowd fired up. Ideally, they need to keep the turnovers around 12 +/-, and if they commit 15 or more, I think they'll have zero chance to win game 6 on the road.

2. They have to play with high energy and intensity, especially on D. The Pacers will be much more aggressive and attacking, and the Knicks need to match that and play in your face D. D up Haliburton full court.

3. Towns has to stay out of foul trouble. This is a big ask as he gets in foul trouble every game, but he has to raise his basketball IQ and be smarter, the Knicks need him on the court in this game especially.

4. They have to make their FT's at a high %, say 80% +, maybe even 85% +.

5. Tibs needs to keep playing the bench, going 9 strong with double digit minutes.

That's how I see game 6, let's see what the Knicks do. Getting off to a good start is super important IMO.
Click to expand...
Let's take a look at my keys:

1. 17 turnovers, mistakes and sloppiness all over the court - I nailed this one unfortunately.
2. Knicks D was invisible. The Pacers outhustled the Knicks to every loose ball, and all game long. The Pacers wanted it WAY more. The Pacers shot 54.1% overall, and 51.5% from 3P range - I nailed this one unfortunately.
3. Towns played 38 minutes, and while he had 4 fouls, it didn't impact him too much. He had good stats but really had almost zero impact - Whatever here I'd say.
4. The Knicks were 17-26, 65.4% from the FT line, and Robinson didn't attempt any FT's so it isn't on him. Towns went 6-10, which is terrible for him - I mailed this one unfortunately.
5. Tibs did play 9 guys double digit minutes, which I'm happy he did, but it didn't matter as no one really came to play.

Overall, I say again Tibs must go. But let's be clear, the players played awful when it counted most in this series. Time and time again they looked lost in the face of pressure. They collapsed in a pathetic way it game 1, which ultimately cost them the series. They didn't show up tonight, and quite frankly the players should be embarrassed by their "effort" and terrible slopingness throughout this whole series really. This is one of the lowest IQ basketball teams with talent I have ever seen. And I am convinced the Knicks have ZERO clue what a pump fake is, I don't think I saw one from them all playoffs.

The fact they lost to Indiana two straight seasons as the favorite with home court, is quite damning of every single player, and the in over his head stubborn as F head coach. And I write that while also acknowledging the Pacers are a very good team, no doubt, but I am stating fact when I write the Knicks lost to them back-to-back seasons as the favorite with home court - NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Rose needs to fire Tibs before the draft (does he has to foresight and courage to fire a coach after an ECF appearance - not easy to do but Rose needs to do it), and he somehow has to pull a rabbit out of his hat and get another very good player in here, otherwise the Knicks will be in the worst place possible, a good team that is not good enough to win a title, but good enough to win 50 games, and make the 2nd round most seasons. The worst place to be IMO.

This is a very interesting offseason for Rose, what will he do at coach, and can he pull the rabbit out of a hat and upgrade the good but not nearly good enough to win a title roster.
 
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And BTW, the Pacers ran ALL GAME LONG, that was their gameplan all season/series, and it worked over and over again. Off turnovers, off made baskets, off misses, over and over again. Multiple uncontested layups off made baskets, which is INEXCUSABLE.

Yes, the lazy as F players have to take responsibility for sure but again COACHING and adjustments and getting the message across to team is nonexistent from Tibs. He HAS to go!!!
 
And good riddance to TNT doing NBA games. It pains me to say it, but them putting Miller on these games was a flat-out disgrace, TNT should be embarrassed by that. I had to watch on mute most of the series. I just hope Miller doesn't end up at NBC or going to ESPN. I think he sucks at his job in addition to being in the tank for the Pacers, right down to the suit he wore to the game tonight and his comments about what time it was. Another disgrace, shame on TNT which I usually am a big fan of.

This article sums it up perfectly:

Reggie Miller's Pacers bias reaches new heights with Game 6 arrival
 
Here's the bottom line. Tom Thibodeau has been a head coach in the NBA for 13 seasons. His teams have made the Conference Finals twice, his first year as a HC in Chicago and this season. His teams have never made the NBA Finals.

Two years ago, the Knicks lost to the Heat in the 2nd round as the favorite with home court.
Last year, the Knicks lost to the Pacers in the 2nd round as the favorite with home court.
This year, the Knicks lost to the Pacers in the ECF as the favorite with home court.
For two straight years in the playoffs, he was badly outcoached by Rick Carlisle.

The guy is ridged, unflexible, unadapting, it's his style, his way, he plays his starters a billion minutes whether it's game 1, game 46, game 82, or game 7 of the ECF. He never utilizes or develops a bench, which hurts his teams a lot because there is no cohesion and confidence from the bench/role players, not to mention it burns out his starters.

Leon Rose needs to have the foresight to see this and understand it. Make the extremely rare, and tough, decision to fire a coach who led his team to the Conference Finals. I appreciate what Thibodeau has done here as coach, helping to turn the Knicks into a respectable franchise, who can maybe feel like there's a chance you can win a title. Leon Rose needs to say, thank you Thibodeau, I greatly appreciate what you have done here, but we must move on to take the next step.

Everything in Thibodeau's coaching career tells you he is not the guy for this next step. Rose needs to bring in a coach who is creative, innovative, flexible, sets up a system and a strategy that plays to his players strengths. It is time to make this move, I hope Rose sees what is very obvious to those paying attention, if he does not there is no point in watching the Knicks moving forward.
 
All good guys, read your one sentence and move on, no issues. Outside of me and maybe a few posts from Step, NO ONE is even posting right now, but let's complain about the one poster who is posting. It's funny actually. Again, all good, you guys do you, come on post nothing and read nothing. That's an awesome lively message board.
 
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90% of what you wrote is the same over and over again...

How about the players be held accountable for their sloppy play. Double digit turnovers, mostly unforced, is not a coaching problem

Missed free throws is not a coaching problem

Defensive lapes in judgement ..maybe a issue on the coach

Guy taking a three and no one thinking of covering back is definitely a coaching problem.

The only coaching problem I saw was how quickly the Pacers got a rebound and had wide open players up court.

KAT not defining the pick and roll better..was that a coaching problem or a player problem, you simply dont know what the coaches want him to do to say who's to blame.
 
Totally agree, the players absolutely need to be held accountable. They were sloppy, and lazy, and soft, and didn't hustle/get back on D, and didn't play with the energy, passion, and intensity needed. As I stated, Rose needs to add another very good player to this roster in order to be championship level.

With that said, it doesn't change who Tibs is, it doesn't change Tibs career record as a coach, and it doesn't change the Knicks losing three straight years as the favorite, with home court, with different players.

Simply put the players have their accountability to own and live with and hopefully grow from, but the coach needs to go if the Knicks want to take the next step to win a title. Look no further than Thibodeau's career as a coach and it becomes very clear that is the case.
 
I also think they need a coaching change. Thibs is a good coach but they might need someone who can instill some sort of a system. Rose might just tweak the roster though. The Knicks are very good team that aren’t excellent at anything in particular. They need to have an identity like the 90s Knick teams.
 
I don’t follow NBA very closely so who can they bring in as a new coach? I have no idea. Lol
 
Former Nuggets coach Mike Malone is available (he led them to the title in 23). Former Lakers and Pacers coach Frank Vogel is available (he led the Lakers to the 20 title - and the Pacers to the ECF twice). There are good assistant coaches looking for their opportunity as well. Even though I think it would be a big mistake, my guess is Rose does not fire Tibs though as it's not likely a coach who makes the Conference Finals gets fired.

I also think it will be difficult to add a very good player this summer due to the Knicks cap situation. I'm sure Rose will tweak, but unfortunately, I don't see anything major happening unless Rose can pull off something shrewd with outside the box thinking.

The Knicks are in a tough spot, and Rose may not be able to do much outside of replace the coach, which again I see as doubtful he pulls the trigger on that.
 
I think Thibs deserves more than one year with this group especially after beating Boston, The problem isn't coaching it's execution by the players, aside from Bridges Thibs has greatly improved the game of most of the Knicks he's coached. When Thibs left Chicago and Minnesota they didn't get better, firing him would be a step backwards.
 
Thibs should absolutely be brought back. However, there needs to be a very seri0us message sent from the top to play his bench a lot more in the regular season and start developing some young players. Kolek is a winner. He can do a lot of things for you. His playing time was a disgrace all season. Achiuwa is 25 and he's a good bench talent. He wasn't used at all in the playoffs. Absurd. Dadiet was 19 and I agree he wasn't ready. However, at 6'8 with his athletic ability, they need to start molding him into a guy that can go against a Siakam and give him a hard time defensively. Rokas Jokubaitis I hope can be brought over here as I hear good things about him. Personally, I think they should trade Bridges who will be a UFA soon. Get back a couple picks and a center that can give you some points, rebounds and good defense for when you get the dumbass Townes who has his head up his ass and needs to be sat down.
 
I think this will all be a moot point as I believe there is almost no shot Rose will fire Thibs, but I will simply state he has been a head coach in the NBA for 13 seasons and never made the Finals and has only made the Conference Finals twice. The past three seasons, WITH DIFFERENT PLAYERS, the Knicks have lost in the playoffs as a higher seeded series favorite, with home court advantage. Tibs has to own that, not the different mix of players each individual team has had.

In addition, he is maybe the most stubborn, inflexible, my way or no way coach I have ever seen. He doesn't play his bench, and never has his whole coaching career, he has no offensive system, and never has his whole career, and he makes very few adjustments to "his way". That's who Tibs has been his whole coaching career.

You say there needs to be a very seri0us message sent from the top to play his bench a lot more in the regular season and start developing some young players. Tibs doesn't do that, and never has, that's exactly the point. Teaching an old dog new tricks doesn't work, especially with a guy like Tibs who is so stubborn and set in his ways after 13 seasons as a head coach and many more seasons as an assistant coach, he isn't changing.

Look, I'd agree he should stay if he suddenly was going to start playing his bench, be more flexible, not treat game 47 of the regular season like game 7 of the NBA Finals, etc., but that will not happen with this guy, history of 13 seasons very clearly tells us that.

I've said my peace, now it is what it is. Again, I very highly doubt Tibs is going anywhere, so it's sort of irrelevant. The focus should very soon shift to what can Rose do to improve the team; they need one more very good player to get over the hump.

If I were Rose, I'd be on the phone with the Bucks GM right now saying I'll trade you everything we have for Giannis outside of Brunson. I read some reports he wants to stay in the East, and is open to going to Toronto, I have to think he'd rather be a Knick than a Raptor, so I'd at least see if we have any shot if I were Rose. If not Giannis, look for another very good player that can be a fit for what we need, toughness, size, rebounding, and D. Robinson has a $13M expiring contract after next season, Bridges also has an expiring contract after next season, so they are both very tradeable commodities. Rose needs to see what he can do to add that one more very good player who fits the team's needs.
 
YES....Rose is my new hero, he fired Thibs, and rightfully so. I didn't think he'd have the guts and foresight to do what absolutely needed to be done, but Rose did it. I think this was so very much the right move, and sets the Knicks up in a much better place to move forward towards winning a title.

This is also why I said I have WAY WAY WAY more faith in Rose than Drury, bold moves like this show Rose gets it. So happy with this move, Thibs has taken the Knicks as far he could under his leadership with no flexibility and playing no bench. I thank him for helping make the Knicks respectable again, now it was time to move on.

Now go hire a very good coach, add another very good player, and the Knicks will be a legit title contender next season. Hopefully Drury grows some balls and has the guts to follow Rose's lead, and he gets bold this summer, which is badly needed by the Rangers.
 
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I love this line - and TOTALLY agree:

The Knicks are singularly focused on their pursuit of a championship and believe a new voice will serve as the focus for the organization's next step, sources said.
 
Anyway...

I am out on an island on this one, just about everyone is up in arms, angry, and surprised over Tibs getting fired. It was unfair, he was made the scapegoat for the players, he led the Knicks to the playoffs 4 of his 5 years as coach, Rose is weak for not holding a presser and answering questions, etc. I stand by my opinion this is the right move for the Knicks moving forward.

The it was unfair comment is crazy to me, welcome to sports, coaches get fired all the time, and sometimes it isn't fair. This has nothing to do with fair or unfair.
The scapegoat for the players/it's the players fault thinking I get. At the end of the day the players didn't get it done, so yeah, they absolutely have major accountability for the way they played, especially against the Pacers. Firing Thibs and putting responsibility on the players can both be true and go together IMO. Both the players and Thibs didn't get it done is how I see it, but you cannot fire all the players.
For making the playoffs 4 of 5 years as Knicks coach, Thibs deserves great credit for that, and for bringing the Knicks back to respectability. I won't take a thing away from him, and I thank him for it.
I totally agree Rose should man up and face the music from the media, that is weak of him to do it behind a curtain.

Now, with all that said, it doesn't change my opinion. I think these are all micro POV's. Macro POV, which is what I take, is what I have stated already. No titles or Finals trips, inflexibility, stubborn, refuses to play a bench, no offensive system, lost as the higher seeded favorite with home court 3 straight years, etc. For all those macro reasons I believe the Knicks have run their course with Thibs and it was time for a change. I said it last year as well, so to me this firing isn't about making Thibs a scapegoat, or "blaming" him for a ECF loss to Indiana, it's for all of the above over a period of time, and when I put it all together I come to the conclusion this is absolutely the right move for the Knicks moving forward. I'll stay on that island by myself, and we'll see if it turns out good or bad, if bad I'll be the first one to say I was wrong.

And BTW, there is work to be done. Rose needs to hire a very good coach, and he needs to improve the roster a bit more. If those things don't happen, Thibs or no Thibs, next season is not going to end well. The pressure is on Rose to get it done and make the right moves to finish it off.
 
Thus move is eerily reminiscent of the JD/Gorton firing by Dolan, I'm sure he was the driving force behind Thibs firing.
 
I don’t know, but it’s not being well received around the media. Thibs doesn’t play his bench and he wouldn’t even if he had one. With the Knicks trading most of their picks away, it’s crucial that they develop the few young players they drafted. Thibs probably won’t do this. Still a huge risk.
 
I agree, it is a risk, but one worth taking. Everyone hates the firing, so that's a plus for Rose/the Knicks as far as I'm concerned. Remember this, it could go poorly, but the alternative is Thibs who has never made an NBA Finals let alone win a title, so let's not act as if they fired this prolific championship coach. I would have made the same move and taken the shot I could bring in a coach to put in an offensive system, be much more flexible, play the darn bench, and take the team all the way. Hopefully Rose hires the right coach, we'll see how it plays out.

Rose also needs to improve the roster, let's not forget that is a big key no matter who the coach is.
 
Firing Thibs if you have a better replacement in mind is fine, maybe Rose is keeping his cards close to the vest on who he wants as a new coach. Most new coaches want to put their fingerprint on their team, will be interesting to see what roster changes come along with the new coach. Even if Thibs beat the Pacers, the Knicks could combine rosters with Indy and still have trouble stopping SGA and OKC.
 
This is why Dolan sucks as an owner, he was clearly behind Thibs firing as a new replacement wasn't hired immediately. Now Rose is out with his tin cup begging teams for permission to hire their coach, what an embarrassment but at least the most successful coach last 25 years in Knicks postseason history is gone . I know a decent coach who's available and has had success in NY - Thibs! Ownership has been shot in the foot by spoiled crybaby players for decades, any time the Knicks develop a semblance of success the team is destroyed by drama
 
I agree in general, but in this case the players loved Thibs, especially Brunson, Hart, and Towns, so unlike the Rangers with prior coaches, this move had nothing to do with the players.

I will say this, no one was a bigger proponent of firing Thibs than I was, but if Rose/the Knicks had no strong plan to hire a good replacement, they should have kept Thibs. But I am also not going to judge it mid process. Let's see who ends up as the Knicks coach, and then I'll offer my opinion on the whole thing.
 
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