Religion Korean cars

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Yay or nay?

Was thinking should I get Kia in the future vs a Honda?


Little sportier, the big SUVs seem pretty dope (Telluride or Palisade) with lots of Tech. Little big for my needs but they will probably make some nice midsize or compact SUVs


Even the Optima, I rented over the summer and it was very solid and smartly put together. I got some ads and they are like 20k which seems like a good deal.

I do worry about random repairs and maintenance costs. They do have a good warranty, but after that?

 

[donkiez]

My sister got a Telluride and it's pretty awesome. She is a soccer mom tho so it really fits her need of haulling kids around all day. Good luck finding one, they pretty much sell out as soon as they arrive. KIAs used to be joke but they are legit these days.

 

[stampedehero]

Test drive both. Don't get duped by their financial departments as they up sell you and make sure one of them gives your free oil changes and car washes like my Honda dealer. Hyandai's do not include a spare donut tire!! BUY USED CERTIFIED!!!!!!

 

[andalusian]

The Tesla 3 was not available when my wife's lease on an e-Golf was finished - so she wanted to get something cheap to tide her over until there are more interesting electric cars (and the e-Golf became very expensive and was proven to be questionably made) - so she leased a Kia Soul EV (because they practically gave them away).

Calling this thing a Soul is misleading because it is about as soul-less a vehicle as one can get, but it is well built with no real issues. In 18+ months so far the only fault is that the USB for Android Auto sometimes goes crazy and does not connect (when she has the time, she will bring it in to be fixed). Nothing else happened and it does exactly what it needs to do in a competent manner (wish we could have said the same about the e-Golf which was tons of fun to drive but had many faults).

I heard nothing but good things about the Nero EV and the Stinger as well.

So, I would not be worried about getting one of these (or the Hyundai equivalent) if you like it. I do not think there is really any quality gap between the Korean cars of today and the equivalent Japanese ones at this point.

 

[jonnyboy]

I’ve heard Kia has stepped their game up and their reputation has improved. It wasn’t long ago they were THE example of a car that wouldn’t go 100k miles, so good on them for getting their shit together if they truly have. I’ve never heard anything too good or bad about a Hyundai, my brother had one that seemed pretty decent.
When it comes to daily drivers though, I only fuck with Toyota. If I lived in a warmer climate, Honda would be on the table as well, but I gotta have 4x4.

Here’s what crazy Scotty Kilmer has to say about Kia and Hyundai:



I don’t know if anyone remembers Car Talk on NPR, it was this guy and his brother. The dude is nuts but he knows his shit.

 

[Lanny]

Yay or nay?

Was thinking should I get Kia in the future vs a Honda?


Little sportier, the big SUVs seem pretty dope (Telluride or Palisade) with lots of Tech. Little big for my needs but they will probably make some nice midsize or compact SUVs


Even the Optima, I rented over the summer and it was very solid and smartly put together. I got some ads and they are like 20k which seems like a good deal.

I do worry about random repairs and maintenance costs. They do have a good warranty, but after that?

My wife is Korean and her nephew-in-law is an automotive engineer working for Hundai/Kia who worked a couple years in Alabama building Hundais and Kias. So. I'd say a good Kia is a good car.
We've got a Toyota and both the car and the service have been excellent.
Hondas are also good cars.
You couldn't go wrong with any of the three.
Our next car? It'll probably be a top of the line Volvo. I've only owned Volvos all my life and find them to be superb. Gonna have to go with an XC90 and the T8 gas/electric engines because of the electric feature and the ability to be modified to accept a power wheel chair. We had a bad accident in a Volvo I bought for my wife about 30 years ago and had the accident 15 years ago and the only reason we weren't badly hurt was because it's a Volvo.
By the way, this from the web:
"Tesla's Model 3 has been named the safest car ever made. The Model 3 achieved a perfect 5-star rating in every category on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's crash tests."

 

[jonnyboy]

I do not think there is really any quality gap between the Korean cars of today and the equivalent Japanese ones at this point.

I don’t know if I’d go that far. Comparing Hyundais and Kias to Hondas and Toyotas would be considered blasphemous to some, lol. Kia and Hyundai May be improving, as they desperately need to, but they aren’t even on the same planet as some of the Japanese manufacturers. There are Hondas and Toyotas still driving down the road today that we’re built 20+ years before the first Kias were sold in the US. You would be hard up to see one of those early Kias still running today. Japanese auto design is unparalleled IMO.

 

[THE HCP]

You know my answer FAMS.

 

[andalusian]

I don’t know if I’d go that far. Comparing Hyundais and Kias to Hondas and Toyotas would be considered blasphemous to some, lol. Kia and Hyundai May be improving, as they desperately need to, but they aren’t even on the same planet as some of the Japanese manufacturers. There are Hondas and Toyotas still driving down the road today that we’re built 20+ years before the first Kias were sold in the US. You would be hard up to see one of those early Kias still running today. Japanese auto design is unparalleled IMO.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/jd-power-2018-us-vehicle-dependability-study

The dependability record is based on 3 years data, Kia #5, Hyundai #7, Toyota #9, Honda #12. Recent data shows that these guys are pretty much equivalent (slightly better).

We own an old Lexus (not our first one) - and our own experience with it (as well as the previous one we owned) matches the JD Power statistics (where it consistently has been top 2). The Kia ownership so far also matches our experience. We had 4 Subarus and despite their reputation for excellence - we had many issues with 2 of the 4 - matching the less than great results shown in this survey. The reality is that quality perception usually lags 10 - 20 years behind the real hard data, that was the same for the Japanese in the 70s (where it was not until the mid-late 80s that people understood how good their cars are) and in the opposite direction for Mercedes and VW where their stellar reputation stayed with them despite the fact that the by the mid-90s they were making questionable cars (before recovering somewhat in Mercedes case, a little less so in VW's case).

I have many friends in the global automotive design community (there are several large company design centers around here) and we hear the gossip from within the industry - Kia and Hyundai started going on a global talent raid 5 or so years ago and this in combination with their operational stuff is starting to bear fruit. Honestly, it is hard to buy a bad car these days (Fiat is trying to keep things interesting, however) - and the Koreans make great cars today. These are not the days of the Hyundai Excel with it's flimsy construction anymore.

As for Japanese design being unparalleled - I would argue that Nissan makes mostly built to a price cheap stuff nowadays (I would buy Korean over Nissan 10 out 10 times if I had to choose), Toyota / Lexus is still good, Honda is still good (but unlike Toyota with Lexus, still can't crack the luxury market with Acura). Subaru has finally started to fix their headgasket issues from the EJ engines with the move to the new engine architecture, Mazda is making fantastic vehicles - so yes, the Japanese are making great cars, but so do the Koreans these days.

 

[julius]

I don’t know if anyone remembers Car Talk on NPR, it was this guy and his brother. The dude is nuts but he knows his shit.

Who told you that? Because that is not even remotely close to being accurate. The Car Talk brothers lived in Mass, this guy is from Texas. Car talk was hosted by Tom and Ray Magliozzi. This guys last name is Kilmer.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

You know my answer FAMS.

You like paying $1200 for an oil change?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/jd-power-2018-us-vehicle-dependability-study

The dependability record is based on 3 years data, Kia #5, Hyundai #7, Toyota #9, Honda #12. Recent data shows that these guys are pretty much equivalent (slightly better).

We own an old Lexus (not our first one) - and our own experience with it (as well as the previous one we owned) matches the JD Power statistics (where it consistently has been top 2). The Kia ownership so far also matches our experience. We had 4 Subarus and despite their reputation for excellence - we had many issues with 2 of the 4 - matching the less than great results shown in this survey. The reality is that quality perception usually lags 10 - 20 years behind the real hard data, that was the same for the Japanese in the 70s (where it was not until the mid-late 80s that people understood how good their cars are) and in the opposite direction for Mercedes and VW where their stellar reputation stayed with them despite the fact that the by the mid-90s they were making questionable cars (before recovering somewhat in Mercedes case, a little less so in VW's case).

I have many friends in the global automotive design community (there are several large company design centers around here) and we hear the gossip from within the industry - Kia and Hyundai started going on a global talent raid 5 or so years ago and this in combination with their operational stuff is starting to bear fruit. Honestly, it is hard to buy a bad car these days (Fiat is trying to keep things interesting, however) - and the Koreans make great cars today. These are not the days of the Hyundai Excel with it's flimsy construction anymore.

As for Japanese design being unparalleled - I would argue that Nissan makes mostly built to a price cheap stuff nowadays (I would buy Korean over Nissan 10 out 10 times if I had to choose), Toyota / Lexus is still good, Honda is still good (but unlike Toyota with Lexus, still can't crack the luxury market with Acura). Subaru has finally started to fix their headgasket issues from the EJ engines with the move to the new engine architecture, Mazda is making fantastic vehicles - so yes, the Japanese are making great cars, but so do the Koreans these days.

How are Lexus repair costs? I know for Toyotas and Hondas, if something goes wrong, usually its not TOO bad. Luxury and sports cars usually have expensive ass repair bills, which is one of the things I really hate.

What about for the Kia?

I was looking at the Genesis line too, the G70 looks pretty sweet. I'll probably be driving back and forth between Vegas and LA pretty frequently in the near future and wanted something I can drive up and down the mountains with pretty well, get decent gas mileage and will last with little maintenance. I think for those purposes, something like an Accord would be best, but wondering if the Optima or G70 would work out as well.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

My sister got a Telluride and it's pretty awesome. She is a soccer mom tho so it really fits her need of haulling kids around all day. Good luck finding one, they pretty much sell out as soon as they arrive. KIAs used to be joke but they are legit these days.

The Stinger looks pretty badass, I thought it was a Porsche Panamera when I first saw it.

 

[riverman]

Toyota or Nissan all the way....better engineered and the motors last twice as long as the Kia or Honda....parts everywhere...anybody can work on them

 

[andalusian]

How are Lexus repair costs? I know for Toyotas and Hondas, if something goes wrong, usually its not TOO bad. Luxury and sports cars usually have expensive ass repair bills, which is one of the things I really hate.

What about for the Kia?

I was looking at the Genesis line too, the G70 looks pretty sweet. I'll probably be driving back and forth between Vegas and LA pretty frequently in the near future and wanted something I can drive up and down the mountains with pretty well, get decent gas mileage and will last with little maintenance. I think for those purposes, something like an Accord would be best, but wondering if the Optima or G70 would work out as well.

The Lexus is somewhat more expensive than 'regular' cars - but it is not as bad as BMWs that we had in the past. For example, a new catalytic converter for my IS300 was about twice as expensive as one for my Mazda Miata, but oil changes are the same. Our GX470 has air suspension (at 120K miles) - so when I replaced the rear suspension - it was not cheap - but normal stuff is very reasonable. Remember that Lexus vehicles are usually Toyota vehicles with some upgrades. For example, the IS300 is a Toyota Altezza, the GX470 is a Land Cruiser Prado with leather interior and a V8 (which is shared with the Tundra, but with VVTi for more performance) and air suspension.

As I said, the Kia so far required nothing - we will find out what the issue with the USB port is - I am not even sure if this is something we need to pay for at all, will find out once my wife has time to take it in. In comparison, after the same amount of time the VW e-Golf has lost 20% of it's battery, had stained seats from water (???), the trim around the 'gear shift' cracked and had to be covered in band aid so it would not nick my wife, the GPS integration has only worked when the radio was on - which means you had to figure out the directions over the noise of the music etc...

 

[jonnyboy]

Who told you that? Because that is not even remotely close to being accurate. The Car Talk brothers lived in Mass, this guy is from Texas. Car talk was hosted by Tom and Ray Magliozzi. This guys last name is Kilmer.

Apparently he’s had the same titled podcast or radio show in the past. My mistake. People online were saying he was a contributor to the NPR syndicated version.

 

[andalusian]

The Stinger looks pretty badass, I thought it was a Porsche Panamera when I first saw it.

The Stinger is a pretty good idea of the talent raid I mentioned before. It was designed by Peter Schreyer (of the Audi TT fame) and the head engineer was Albert Biermann which before was the head of BMW's M division (When they used to make fantastic sport sedans unlike the fluffy luxury cars they make now).

 

[jonnyboy]

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/jd-power-2018-us-vehicle-dependability-study

The dependability record is based on 3 years data, Kia #5, Hyundai #7, Toyota #9, Honda #12. Recent data shows that these guys are pretty much equivalent (slightly better).

We own an old Lexus (not our first one) - and our own experience with it (as well as the previous one we owned) matches the JD Power statistics (where it consistently has been top 2). The Kia ownership so far also matches our experience. We had 4 Subarus and despite their reputation for excellence - we had many issues with 2 of the 4 - matching the less than great results shown in this survey. The reality is that quality perception usually lags 10 - 20 years behind the real hard data, that was the same for the Japanese in the 70s (where it was not until the mid-late 80s that people understood how good their cars are) and in the opposite direction for Mercedes and VW where their stellar reputation stayed with them despite the fact that the by the mid-90s they were making questionable cars (before recovering somewhat in Mercedes case, a little less so in VW's case).

I have many friends in the global automotive design community (there are several large company design centers around here) and we hear the gossip from within the industry - Kia and Hyundai started going on a global talent raid 5 or so years ago and this in combination with their operational stuff is starting to bear fruit. Honestly, it is hard to buy a bad car these days (Fiat is trying to keep things interesting, however) - and the Koreans make great cars today. These are not the days of the Hyundai Excel with it's flimsy construction anymore.

As for Japanese design being unparalleled - I would argue that Nissan makes mostly built to a price cheap stuff nowadays (I would buy Korean over Nissan 10 out 10 times if I had to choose), Toyota / Lexus is still good, Honda is still good (but unlike Toyota with Lexus, still can't crack the luxury market with Acura). Subaru has finally started to fix their headgasket issues from the EJ engines with the move to the new engine architecture, Mazda is making fantastic vehicles - so yes, the Japanese are making great cars, but so do the Koreans these days.

Great post. As for the quality perception lagging 10-20 years, that is precisely how my personal experience is based. Most of my vehicles have been used, roughly 10 years old at the time of purchase. A lot of that lag time is simply the amount of time it takes to put high enough miles on the vehicles to make a determination on their reliability. I don’t buy new cars. Value depreciation in the thousands simply from driving off the lot is not my idea of a good deal, especially if things don’t pan out mechanically. I prefer to let others make that gamble on reliability and when there’s a good consensus, I’ll buy used.

 

[andalusian]

Great post. As for the quality perception lagging 10-20 years, that is precisely where my personal experience is based. Most of my vehicles have been used, roughly 10 years old at the time of purchase. A lot of that lag time is simply the amount of time it takes to put high miles on the vehicles to make a determination on their reliability. I don’t buy new cars. Value depreciation in driving off the lot is not my cup o tea. I prefer to let others make that gamble on reliability and when there’s a good consensus, I’ll buy used.

I have to admit that the survey I gave you is based on 3 years and not 10+ years - and there is a chance that some stuff goes bad after longer time. My experience however (and it is anecdotal based on my own cars or people I know) shows that the Koreans nowadays make very good cars (my next door neighbor is a repeat Hyundai customer and swears that he had no issues with any for the last 10 years of ownership).

As for buying used, I pretty much do that too for my own cars (hack, my daily driver is a '93 Miata that I bought over 20 years ago), but my wife is an EV fan (and I understand why) - so we are pretty much limited to leasing at this point as they are all new and we wanted to be sure we can get out of one if the technology did not pan out. That was a smart decision with the e-Golf which was a great fun to drive, but I am glad I did not own it.

Buying / leasing new cars for my wife gives me the time to work on my fleet of antique vehicles (I also own a couple of 50+ years old Alfa Romeos).

 

[jonnyboy]

I have to admit that the survey I gave you is based on 3 years and not 10+ years - and there is a chance that some stuff goes bad after longer time. My experience however (and it is anecdotal based on my own cars or people I know) shows that the Koreans nowadays make very good cars (my next door neighbor is a repeat Hyundai customer and swears that he had no issues with any for the last 10 years of ownership).

As for buying used, I pretty much do that too for my own cars (hack, my daily driver is a '93 Miata that I bought over 20 years ago), but my wife is an EV fan (and I understand why) - so we are pretty much limited to leasing at this point as they are all new and we wanted to be sure we can get out of one if the technology did not pan out. That was a smart decision with the e-Golf which was a great fun to drive, but I am glad I did not own it.

Buying / leasing new cars for my wife gives me the time to work on my fleet of antique vehicles (I also own a couple of 50+ years old Alfa Romeos).

Leasing is a great idea for testing the waters without the liability. I can’t blame anyone for checking out the new stuff, I am a total car nerd and love to check out new gadgets. I simply enjoy machines that were built on the idea that driving is an experience, not just a utility. I am quite often found asking people to pop hoods and laying underneath their vehicles just to get a closer look.
And props on the Alfa’s, I love the stylings of those older European sports cars. Driving a naturally aspirated vehicle with manual transmission and no power steering can really be a beautiful experience, and I mean that with zero sarcasm. You can really feel the road and be present and in control.

 

[MarAzul]

usually its not TOO bad.

And there in lies the answer.
It might not make a difference where you are, but if you are out and about. Occasionally you need something fixed. Probably no sweat for any model in LA. But in small town America, much different.
Like my little area, no Kia dealers, nearest is 140 miles away. Chevys, Fords, Toyota, and Honda are everywhere in small town America.

 

[MarAzul]

Leasing is a great idea for testing the waters without the liability. I can’t blame anyone for checking out the new stuff, I am a total car nerd and love to check out new gadgets. I simply enjoy machines that were built on the idea that driving is an experience, not just a utility. I am quite often found asking people to pop hoods and laying underneath their vehicles just to get a closer look.
And props on the Alfa’s, I love the stylings of those older European sports cars. Driving a naturally aspirated vehicle with manual transmission and no power steering can really be a beautiful experience, and I mean that with zero sarcasm. You can really feel the road and be present and in control.

Ha! Some of those old Euro's were a pain in the backside too! I rode to work daily back in the 60s with a guy that had a Jag. Six cylinder with three, mechanical linkage up draft carbs. That sucker needed adjustment going for cold to warm, and a little different daily. But he liked it!

 

[THE HCP]

You like paying $1200 for an oil change?

I like driving my ride thru wine country and cruising along the Oregon coast like my wife just did this weekend and it feeling like a dream. That smell of handcrafted leather, steering and handling created by German engineers that know their shit FAMS.
Some things are worth paying for in my opinion. You like fancy shoes and fine dining.....THE HCP loves to drive.

 

[Lanny]

Great post. As for the quality perception lagging 10-20 years, that is precisely how my personal experience is based. Most of my vehicles have been used, roughly 10 years old at the time of purchase. A lot of that lag time is simply the amount of time it takes to put high enough miles on the vehicles to make a determination on their reliability. I don’t buy new cars. Value depreciation in the thousands simply from driving off the lot is not my idea of a good deal, especially if things don’t pan out mechanically. I prefer to let others make that gamble on reliability and when there’s a good consensus, I’ll buy used.

I buy a new car and keep it for 15 or 20 years. We've had our present car for 14 years and now we need one that can accept a power wheel chair. My wife is just too old and too small to be lifting a wheel chair in and out of the trunk of our current Camry. Got to give her a break.
This next car may well be our last so gonna go for all the bells and whistles.

 

[riverman]

THE HCP loves to drive.

When you get that first riding mower you'll never go back! You can't....you quit walking and then the inevitable happens....next will be the electric shopping cart!

 

[e_blazer]

I buy a new car and keep it for 15 or 20 years. We've had our present car for 14 years and now we need one that can accept a power wheel chair. My wife is just too old and too small to be lifting a wheel chair in and out of the trunk of our current Camry. Got to give her a break.
This next car may well be our last so gonna go for all the bells and whistles.

Where does the wheelchair go?

 

[MarAzul]

gonna go for all the bells and whistles.

Careful with this!
My last Suburban had all that stuff. So damn complicated, I never did get the hang of it. Hit the wrong button and a seat would fold up and lay down. Then you have to figure out how to get it back up! The second time I did it, I wondered what would happen if someone were in the seat? Screw it, I have simple a Toyota now.

 

[Lanny]

Where does the wheelchair go?

That's it! That's my last car. I sold it to my brother who always coveted it. I see he hasn't changed a thing.

 

[jonnyboy]

That smell of handcrafted leather

That’s burning antifreeze fams.

 

[MarAzul]

That’s burning antifreeze fams.

Now when you get that clue, you have got real bad shit happening. Not a good sign.