KP on Sports Sunday tonight

[The_Lillard_King]

I still don't understand how Pritchard being a "cocky guy" has anything to do with how Miller and the Vulcans handled the Darius Miles "fiasco".

A lot of posters here dislike Memphis and tend to group the GM, owner and front office together when talking about the organization. Actions of an organization can stick to individual people if they are seen as the face of the franchise.


I do think KP has developed a bit of a reputation . . . I don't think it will stop other GMs from dealing with him.

 

[LittleAlex]

Which chance was that? The one where he backed up Sergio when Blake was hurt? If that is the one you are referring to Bayless looked like this in those 14 games compared to Blake's season numbers

Bayless 9.6 ppg
Blake 11.0 ppg

Bayless 2.8 apg
Blake 5.0 apg

Bayless 2.0 rpg
Blake 2.5 rpg

Bayless 48% field
Bake 43% field

Bayless 85% line
Blake 84% line

Bayless 38% 3pt
Blake 43% 3pt

Bayless 3.9 FTA per game
Blake 1.1 FTA per game


So in summary, Blake, in about 10 minutes more per game, scored 1.4 more points per game, had 2.2 more assists per game, had .5 rebounds more per game, was a worse shooter from botht he field and the line, was a better shooter from 3 pt range, and in 10 more minutes per game shot 2.8 less FT's per game.

How exactly did our rookie fail? When given playing time he held his own, and in several categories was better than Blake......a 7 year veteran


If someone could post Per 36 or 32 minute numbers for the period of time Bayless new he was going to play that would be great.


Per 36 minutes for the entire year for both players, so these numbers are much lower for Bayless than they would be for the games in which he actually played a real role in look like this

Bayless 12.5 ppg
Blake 12.5 ppg

Bayless 4.3 apg
Blake 5.7 apg

Bayless 3.1 rpg
Blake 2.8 rpg

I would argue that Blake's assists are an illusion. He gets a ton of them moving the ball around the perimeter to the open guy in the corner. He doesn't get many at all from driving and kicking or pushing the ball up the court. If you got rid of all of the incidental assists, Blake might get a couple a game.

This is also my theory as to why his assist to turnover ratio is so high. In short, his assists come from passes nearly any player on the team could make, which makes them extremely low risk.

As to that, I say low risk = low reward.

 

[PapaG]

A lot of posters here dislike Memphis and tend to group the GM, owner and front office together when talking about the organization. Actions of an organization does can stick to individual people if they are seen as the face of the franchise.


I do think KP has developed a bit of a reputation . . . I don't think it will stop other GMs from dealing with him.

I agree and will add that perception at times supercedes reality in terms of forming opinions, but this still doesn't change the reality and speaks more about the bias of the perceiver than it does the perceivee.

 

[Ed O]

I don't know if Pritchard is arrogant or not, but I think that the team giving away Sergio is an example that the Blazers under KP are not infallible.

Teams that target specific players, and pass on superior players or use draft picks that are too early for the targeted players, do fine as long as they don't target the wrong players. Looking at Portland's track record of getting Roy and Aldridge and Rudy, it's been easy to believe they simply are better than other teams at targeting the right guys.

Sergio, though? A $3m check to the Suns that bought a chance for a player to pan out... which he did not. If he had been our target (like Claver) he would have been a bust, rather than a good try.

If Portland REALLY targeted Claver, Pendergraph and Cunningham, and it seems like they did based on how early they selected each of them, then we'll have to wait and see whether they targeted the right guys. Especially in the case of the two second round four-year power forwards? I doubt they did.

Ed O.

 

[THE HCP]

I don't think they necessarily gave Sergio away. They acquired around 2 million in cap space. I think it was a smart move.

 

[hasoos]

I don't think they necessarily gave Sergio away. They acquired around 2 million in cap space. I think it was a smart move.

I heard they got a box of pretty stale Sacramento Kings popcorn. That is a pretty good deal IMO. Probably get 2 more wins this season because Sergio is gone.

 

[Ed O]

I don't think they necessarily gave Sergio away. They acquired around 2 million in cap space. I think it was a smart move.

They didn't acquire any cap space above and beyond what they were paying Rodriguez.

If they had moved Sergio AND dead contract weight (which we fortunately do not have), then I would say they didn't give Sergio away.

If anything, moving up 7 spots in the second round is SOME value for Sergio... just not a lot. That we got out from under his contract isn't really evidence, to me, that we didn't just give him away.

Ed O.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I don't think they necessarily gave Sergio away. They acquired around 2 million in cap space. I think it was a smart move.

They acquired 1.6 in cap space. They could just as easily renounced Freeland and Koponen.....two players that have never played a second in the NBA.....instead and saved the same ammount of cap space.

They gave Sergio away.

 

[andalusian]

They gave Sergio away.

You all say it as if it was a bad thing...

 

[Mediocre Man]

You all say it as if it was a bad thing...

Him going wasn't a bad thing. I think they could have either gotten more, or given up less though.

 

[Ed O]

You all say it as if it was a bad thing...

I'm not critical of the move, just pointing out that Sergio is the first draft pick under KP that is a definite bust-like pick. I'm not ready to give up on Freeland or Koponen just yet, but it's hard to argue that the Sergio pick was a success.

Ed O.

 

[andalusian]

Him going wasn't a bad thing. I think they could have either gotten more, or given up less though.

I think that this assumption is pretty wrong - and shows that some of you over-value our past players...

Sergio is a border-line backup PG in the league. These guys are not worth much. It's as simple as that.

For all intents and purposes - Sergio was a long-shot to make it in the NBA - as his low pick (for a player ready to come into the league and play, unlike Rudy and hopefully Claver) showed. These guys are more likely to fail than succeed in the NBA - and that's about what we can expect from these low picks. The hit rate there is not high.

KP hit the jackpot with Rudy and his Nicolas pick also seems pretty astute. That's 2 out of 3 for the low first round picks that actually played in the NBA - which is a lot higher than most...

 

[oldmangrouch]

KP has spent 6 first round picks on European players. 2 have been successful.

It might be time for him to try a different approach.

 

[PapaG]

I think that this assumption is pretty wrong - and shows that some of you over-value our past players...

Sergio is a border-line backup PG in the league. These guys are not worth much. It's as simple as that.

For all intents and purposes - Sergio was a long-shot to make it in the NBA - as his low pick (for a player ready to come into the league and play, unlike Rudy and hopefully Claver) showed. These guys are more likely to fail than succeed in the NBA - and that's about what we can expect from these low picks. The hit rate there is not high.

KP hit the jackpot with Rudy and his Nicolas pick also seems pretty astute. That's 2 out of 3 for the low first round picks that actually played in the NBA - which is a lot higher than most...

Sergio wasn't even a back-up PG in the playoffs. He didn't even get off of the bench in the second half after Game 1 and didn't even play in Game 3. I'm actually surprised that the Blazers received anything for him, although being traded for 7 second-round slots in the draft while your team gives money to your new team has to be a bit of an ego-crusher.

 

[RickyRubio]

I heard they got a box of pretty stale Sacramento Kings popcorn. That is a pretty good deal IMO. Probably get 2 more wins this season because Sergio is gone.

And 2 more wins in the West is HUGE!

Him going wasn't a bad thing. I think they could have either gotten more, or given up less though.

Addition by subtraction. I agree with you though. It is not a bad thing and we could have done better. But we didn't do terrible.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think that this assumption is pretty wrong - and shows that some of you over-value our past players...

Sergio is a border-line backup PG in the league. These guys are not worth much. It's as simple as that.

For all intents and purposes - Sergio was a long-shot to make it in the NBA - as his low pick (for a player ready to come into the league and play, unlike Rudy and hopefully Claver) showed. These guys are more likely to fail than succeed in the NBA - and that's about what we can expect from these low picks. The hit rate there is not high.

KP hit the jackpot with Rudy and his Nicolas pick also seems pretty astute. That's 2 out of 3 for the low first round picks that actually played in the NBA - which is a lot higher than most...

I agree. Portland traded a back up PG, a pick slightly below where they were picking already and cash for a second round pick. I am not saying we should have demanded a 1st rounder, but we basically paid Sacramento to take him.

 

[RickyRubio]

KP has spent 6 first round picks on European players. 2 have been successful.

It might be time for him to try a different approach.

What, this list?

Sergio
Kaponen
Freeland
Rudy
Batum
Claver

Is that your list of 6? How can you say only 2 have been successful? 3 of them have never even spent a day in the NBA lol. 1 was not terrible, just didn't work out. I say he is doing fine. Your a grouch!!!!!!!!1 lol

 

[Tince]

KP has spent 6 first round picks on European players. 2 have been successful.

It might be time for him to try a different approach.

Not only is it too early to determine success on a few of the players, you failed to mention that all of these players were taken in the mid to late 20's. I seriously doubt that 1/3 of picks in the late 20's result in starting quality players, yet Batum and Rudy have proven to be just that, in their first year.

If you expect more than half of late first round picks to be major successes, your expectations are way too high.

 

[crandc]

Sergio was a low risk pick. The Blazers gave up no players and no picks, just some cash. Same as with Rudy. If they work out, it's great, if not, there is really no loss (except to Paul Allen's bank balance). One of two definitely has worked out, so I'd say the batting average is pretty decent.

I don't think it's so much Sergio was a bust as that there is no place for him. He's a back up guard and the decision was made that Bayless will apprentice as back up for a year or two and then be the starter. That leaves an odd man out.

 

[Blaze01]

in essence they gave away Zach as well, but they also opened up minutes for LA, which IMO turned out to be the right decision. Dealing Sergio opens up room for Bayless, which could benefit POR now and down the road.

I understand wanting to get max value for a player, but sometimes the wait for that right deal becomes an even bigger negative.

 

[STOMP]

Let me guess. You want to put KP on the hotseat now too.

I know, being a Blazer fan for a good 20 years now, how most of you are. But I some of you never cease to amaze me with the bullshit you say.

your timeline says you joined our site last month... yet you know how most of us are??? And whats with attributing a view to another poster they never came close to expressing and then throwing out the crazy smiley?

it's like you're channeling your inner Skip Bayless...

STOMP

 

[oldmangrouch]

What, this list?

Sergio
Kaponen
Freeland
Rudy
Batum
Claver

Is that your list of 6? How can you say only 2 have been successful? 3 of them have never even spent a day in the NBA lol. 1 was not terrible, just didn't work out. I say he is doing fine. Your a grouch!!!!!!!!1 lol

I can say only 2 have been successful, because it is true.

Sergio flopped.

Kopponen isn't even good enough to hold Sergio's old job as a back-up.

Freeland is supposedly good enough, and we need a 4th big man....and where is he? Staying in Europe like Rubio, Vazquez, and Splitter. (In fairness, all of those guys are making a much better living in Spain)

That leaves Claver. Since his injury, he has not worked out or had a physical by a single NBA team. He skipped both the NBA Combine and the Reebock Eurocamp. I may be a grouch, but I am also a cynic! What is Claver hiding???

 

[oldmangrouch]

Not only is it too early to determine success on a few of the players, you failed to mention that all of these players were taken in the mid to late 20's. I seriously doubt that 1/3 of picks in the late 20's result in starting quality players, yet Batum and Rudy have proven to be just that, in their first year.

If you expect more than half of late first round picks to be major successes, your expectations are way too high.

That's a fair point. They were taken late enough to somewhat mitigate the risks.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not critical of the move, just pointing out that Sergio is the first draft pick under KP that is a definite bust-like pick.

No one is infallible, but I think Rodriguez was a pretty good selection and decision at the time. Without the benefit of hindsight, he took a late first round gamble on a high-upside, exciting point guard and it only cost the team $3 million. Sergio didn't work out and Pritchard cut bait on him relatively quickly (three seasons is enough to evaluate that he was making no progress but not so long that valuable time was wasted).

My point, I guess, is that Sergio, to me, is an example of good process even if it was a bad result. That's really what I look for, good process. If you have a good process, the results will tend to be good/great over time even if any specific decision may go poorly.

I think Claver was, similarly, an example of good process. The team is young and deep and picking late in the first round...instead of selecting another young player who likely won't be talented enough to even crack the rotation, select a guy who has high upside down the line.

So, I wouldn't use Sergio as an example of Pritchard being "fallible," because it's a bit trivial to say that no one has 100% hit rate on selections. Sergio was an example of Pritchard doing things the right way, IMO.

 

[BlazersBlood]

Not only is it too early to determine success on a few of the players, you failed to mention that all of these players were taken in the mid to late 20's. I seriously doubt that 1/3 of picks in the late 20's result in starting quality players, yet Batum and Rudy have proven to be just that, in their first year.

If you expect more than half of late first round picks to be major successes, your expectations are way too high.

+1

Was about to say the same thing. That late in the draft the odds of finding a strong rotational player is pretty slim. Getting a Euro with upside while letting them develop overseas is a great way to draft in the late 1st and 2nd round. The risk vs. reward is much better than trying to gamble on a guy like Steve Novak, Maurice Ager, or Aaron Afflalo. Sure you could end up with a guy like Milsap or Sessions, but why not gamble on a Euro that was projected to be a lotto pick in a later draft like Rudy?

 

[LittleAlex]

KP has spent 6 first round picks on European players. 2 have been successful.

It might be time for him to try a different approach.

I though both Sergio and Rudy were drafted by Phoenix, then sold their rights to Portland.

I agree in principle, though. The draft is a real crap shoot and the time for those types of gambles is over for the near term in Portland.

 

[PapaG]

I though both Sergio and Rudy were drafted by Phoenix, then sold their rights to Portland.

I agree in principle, though. The draft is a real crap shoot and the time for those types of gambles is over for the near term in Portland.

That's true, but it's true only because the trades were not officially approved at the time of the draft. To be technical, LMA and Roy were not officially drafted by Portland either, but only because trades had to be approved. Those players were drafted FOR Portland, however, as deals were agreed to prior to the picks.

 

[Eastoff]

But if they know that Pritchard usually comes out well ahead in his dealings, why risk it, especially if they have to listen to him gloat afterward?

I would resent him too if I constantly got my ass kicked by him! Wouldn't you? Or do you like bullies? Just be happy he is OUR bully!

the thing you are both not considering, is that these GMs are aggressive people. when they get beat, they don't avoid confrontation the next time. they want to get revenge! so they are going to go trade again and think "HA i'll get that KP this time for SURE!"

 

[handiman]

the thing you are both not considering, is that these GMs are aggressive people. when they get beat, they don't avoid confrontation the next time. they want to get revenge! so they are going to go trade again and think "HA i'll get that KP this time for SURE!"

Hmm, is it that we're not considering it or that you're simply assuming it to be true with no supporting evidence?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm not critical of the move, just pointing out that Sergio is the first draft pick under KP that is a definite bust-like pick. I'm not ready to give up on Freeland or Koponen just yet, but it's hard to argue that the Sergio pick was a success.

I disagree. For one thing, Sergio had a lot of value after his rookie year. We could have cashed him in then, probably for a higher first round pick in ensuing years. For another, what player picked after Sergio was obviously better?

27. Phoenix             Sergio Rodriguez
28. Dallas              Maurice Ager
29. New York            Mardy Collins
30. Portland            Joel Freeland

31. Portland            James White
32. Houston             Steve Novak
33. Atlanta             Solomon Jones	
34. LA Clippers         Paul Davis
35. Toronto             P.J. Tucker
36. Minnesota           Craig Smith
37. Minnesota           Bobby Jones
38. Golden State        Kosta Perovic
39. Milwaukee           David Noel
40. Seattle             Denham Brown
41. Orlando             James Augustine
42. Cleveland           Daniel GIbson
43. New Orleans         Marcus Vinicius
44. Orlando             Lior Elyahu
45. Indiana             Alexander Johnson
46. Utah                Dee Brown
47. Utah                Paul Milsap
48. Washington          Valdimir Veremeenko
49. Denver              Leon Powe
50. CHarlotte           Ryan Hollins
51. LA Lakers           Cheick Samb
52. LA Clippers         Guillermo Diaz
53. Seattle             Yotam Halperin
54. New Jersey          Hassan Adams
55. Cleveland           Ejke Ugbosja
56. Toronto             Edin Bavcic
57. Minnesota           Loukas Mavrokefaldis
58. Dallas              J.R. Pinnock
59. San Antonio         Damir Markota
60. Detroit             Wil Blalock

Okay, obviously Millsap, and possibly Smith and Powe. But
1. We had Zach and had just drafted LaMarcus, whereas we'd just traded our starting PG for the #7 pick.
2. NOBODY thought those guys would be any more than journeymen, and you don't use first rounders on journeymen. In fact low first rounders SHOULD be used on Euros, because Americans you're stuck with for 3 years minimum, but Euros you might NEVER have to bring over.