KP Worst GM in Blazer history?

[Natebishop3]

And, before you proclaim Pritchard the worst GM in Blazer history, you need a little history lesson.

In 1972, Stu Inman selected LaRue Martin over Bob McAdoo and Julius Erving. In 1984, Inman selected Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley and John Stockton. In 1976, Inman selected Wally Walker over Adrian Dantley and Robert Parish. He also made several other bad draft choices and bad trades.

BNM

/Thread

 

[44Thrilla]

Good drafting is mostly luck.

 

[jlprk]

Here is the difference between the drafting philosophies of Bob Whitsitt and Kevin Pritchard. Both looked for bargains in the draft.

Whitsitt took chances on players who fell in the draft due to possible future personality conflicts.

Pritchard took chances on players who fell in the draft due to possible future injuries.

You can accuse Pritchard of knowing in advance about a tendency toward injuries (just as you can criticize Whitsitt for taking a chance on Shawn Kemp, who used cocaine), but each GM was following his own gambling strategy. Each strategy produced a few "finds" who later reverted to the tendency that had made them drop to us, so they became busts (as Roy will be known, shortly).

For a GM to beat the competition, he needs a gimmick (= a gambling strategy about what he's willing to sacrifice that other GMs value more than he does). So a heady discussion on Pritchard should be a discussion on his strategies/gimmicks (for example, he took chances in the draft on injuries). (His #2 gimmick was to not play Lafrentz and Miles, who both could have played a little, in order to cash in on rarely-used medical rules in the CBA.) (Another of his gimmicks was to fill the roster with youth, which he could do because he had a coach specializing in youth. McMillan doesn't look so good when the roster already knows discipline and needs actual coaching.) (Also, the common gimmick of all Paul Allen GMs is to get better players than they give, by taking on big contracts or throwing in $3M. Then we give credit to the GM, but Allen deserves it.)

I just listed 4 Pritchard strategies in the preceding paragraph. A real discussion about him would be about his strategies.

 

[Natebishop3]

Here is the difference between the drafting philosophies of Bob Whitsitt and Kevin Pritchard. Both looked for bargains in the draft.

Whitsitt took chances on players who fell in the draft due to possible future personality conflicts.

Pritchard took chances on players who fell in the draft due to possible future injuries.

You can accuse Pritchard of knowing in advance about a tendency toward injuries (just as you can criticize Whitsitt for taking a chance on Shawn Kemp, who used cocaine), but each GM was following his own gambling strategy. Each strategy produced a few "finds" who later reverted to the tendency that had made them drop to us, so they became busts (as Roy will be known, shortly).

For a GM to beat the competition, he needs a gimmick (= a gambling strategy about what he's willing to sacrifice that other GMs value more than he does). So a heady discussion on Pritchard should be a discussion on his strategies/gimmicks (for example, he took chances in the draft on injuries). (His #2 gimmick was to not play Lafrentz and Miles, who both could have played a little, in order to cash in on rarely-used medical rules in the CBA.) (Another of his gimmicks was to fill the roster with youth, which he could do because he had a coach specializing in youth. McMillan doesn't look so good when the roster already knows discipline and needs actual coaching.) (Also, the common gimmick of all Paul Allen GMs is to get better players than they give, by taking on big contracts or throwing in $3M. Then we give credit to the GM, but Allen deserves it.)

I just listed 4 Pritchard strategies in the preceding paragraph. A real discussion about him would be about his strategies.

How can you be a bust when you're a three-time All-Star?

 

[jlprk]

(as Roy will be known, shortly).

I KNEW those 6 words would garner all attention to the detriment of the rest of my post. <kicking myself> Why bother writing a nice long argument if you include 6 words that make the reader forget the rest of the post. I don't know, I just did it.

So anyway, did I miss any of Pritchard's main strategies, gimmicks, methods, whatever you want to call them, in his quest to evaluate and acquire talent?

I'm just saying, these major injuries result from that strategy. Without it, we'd have fewer injuries, but also worse players. (Although I think by now we'd have the same quality of players, because over time, a couple extra trades would have been made.)

Camby and Batum are the currently uninjured players who have a high tendency to get injured. I expect their time will come, too. Hopefully not this season.

 

[Minstrel]

Here is the difference between the drafting philosophies of Bob Whitsitt and Kevin Pritchard. Both looked for bargains in the draft.

Whitsitt took chances on players who fell in the draft due to possible future personality conflicts.

Pritchard took chances on players who fell in the draft due to possible future injuries.

You can accuse Pritchard of knowing in advance about a tendency toward injuries (just as you can criticize Whitsitt for taking a chance on Shawn Kemp, who used cocaine), but each GM was following his own gambling strategy. Each strategy produced a few "finds" who later reverted to the tendency that had made them drop to us, so they became busts (as Roy will be known, shortly).

For a GM to beat the competition, he needs a gimmick (= a gambling strategy about what he's willing to sacrifice that other GMs value more than he does). So a heady discussion on Pritchard should be a discussion on his strategies/gimmicks (for example, he took chances in the draft on injuries). (His #2 gimmick was to not play Lafrentz and Miles, who both could have played a little, in order to cash in on rarely-used medical rules in the CBA.) (Another of his gimmicks was to fill the roster with youth, which he could do because he had a coach specializing in youth. McMillan doesn't look so good when the roster already knows discipline and needs actual coaching.) (Also, the common gimmick of all Paul Allen GMs is to get better players than they give, by taking on big contracts or throwing in $3M. Then we give credit to the GM, but Allen deserves it.)

I just listed 4 Pritchard strategies in the preceding paragraph. A real discussion about him would be about his strategies.

A surprisingly sane post from you. And actually insightful. Kudos!

 

[jlprk]

Examples? It's obvious to me when I'm being humorous. If it's not obvious to you, then you need to raise your humor IQ.

I'd estimate that my posts are about 67% humorous, 25% serious basketball just like I wrote in this thread, and 8% political on the off-topic board (of which probably 60% are humorous themselves).

So should I lower myself to your muddy level or should you little people raise yourselves to my level?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Nash/KP came in with the mindset that we had to put a huge emphasis on character when drafting players, they learned from the mistakes of Bob Whitsitt.

Cho has to have the mindset that he has to put a HUGE emphasis on the health of the guys we bring in. You can't ignore the red flags from the pre-draft physicals.

 

[Natebishop3]

Nash/KP came in with the mindset that we had to put a huge emphasis on character when drafting players, they learned from the mistakes of Bob Whitsitt.

Cho has to have the mindset that he has to put a HUGE emphasis on the health of the guys we bring in. You can't ignore the red flags from the pre-draft physicals.

Do you think there was a single GM who would have passed on Oden for Durant at the time?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Do you think there was a single GM who would have passed on Oden for Durant at the time?

Not one.

 

[Natebishop3]

Not one.

It's so easy to have revisionist history.

 

[barfo]

Not one.

Good answer, very ambiguous... are you saying that there was not one GM who would have passed on Oden, or that that there were multiple GMs who would have passed?

barfo

 

[jlprk]

Good answer, very ambiguous... are you saying that there was not one GM who would have passed on Oden, or that that there were multiple GMs who would have passed?

How come when I twist logic like that, and I'm sitting here laughing at my accomplishment, the morons think it's crazy?

It takes HARD WORK to sound crazy. We didn't have video games. We had to walk in the snow talking to ourselves, warming our hands by rubbing our chest hair. Young chicks like Minstrel don't appreciate the value of my manly work. Walk a mile in my shoes and rub your chest hair, because then you'll have to buy me new shoes. And get me one of those tight little red miniskirts too.

 

[Natebishop3]

How come when I twist logic like that, and I'm sitting here laughing at my accomplishment, the morons think it's crazy?

It takes HARD WORK to sound crazy. We didn't have video games. We had to walk in the snow talking to ourselves, warming our hands by rubbing our chest hair. Young chicks like Minstrel don't appreciate the value of my manly work. Walk a mile in my shoes and rub your chest hair, because then you'll have to buy me new shoes. And get me one of those tight little red miniskirts too.

A different breed, you are.

 

[jlprk]

Why thank you. I'll bury a rock in your honor at dawn.

 

[Natebishop3]

Why thank you. I'll bury a rock in your honor at dawn.

A big rock or a little rock?

 

[maxiep]

Where to start? Shit the When Oden has played says it all.

M'kay. There's a difference between not being able to play at the NBA level and not being able to play because of injury. Who predicted before he was drafted the litany of injuries he's suffered. There were some red flags (broken hip as a youngster, one leg shorter than the other), but none of them have impacted him. They've been other injuries.

My guess is you were still trying to wash off your Sharpie moustache in June, 2006.

 

[Natebishop3]

M'kay. There's a difference between not being able to play at the NBA level and not being able to play because of injury. Who predicted before he was drafted the litany of injuries he's suffered. There were some red flags (broken hip as a youngster, one leg shorter than the other), but none of them have impacted him. They've been other injuries.

My guess is you were still trying to wash off your Sharpie moustache in June, 2006.

What does this MEAN?

 

[maxiep]

What does this MEAN?

Draft the 'Stache!

 

[Natebishop3]

Draft the 'Stache!

Hahaha ok. That makes sense.

 

[Sug]

M'kay. There's a difference between not being able to play at the NBA level and not being able to play because of injury. Who predicted before he was drafted the litany of injuries he's suffered. There were some red flags (broken hip as a youngster, one leg shorter than the other), but none of them have impacted him. They've been other injuries.

My guess is you were still trying to wash off your Sharpie moustache in June, 2006.

I did not want Morrison, but I did want Oden badly. I was wrong, so was KP. The difference is that I am a fan and KP was paid well to make the actual choice. Hindsight says it was wrong, it was wrong. We can talk about if it is fair or not on how we judge it, but in the end it has not been a positive for the Blazers or the fan base. That is a problem when you are in the professional basketball business with a focus on entertainment. I know you understand the issue, and I am not looking for a fight. KP was a nice guy, charismatic and interesting for us to observe for sure. I wish it was a different story, I really do because I love the organization and I invest part of my income into season tickets.

Watching Durant the other night just pushed me over the line in terms of where we stand, and where we could be standing. It is really frustrating to see the injuries pile up and the choices that put us in this situation. Much like the injuries, the judgement is not fair but it is there. I will never give up on the Blazers, shit I was one of the few that still went to games when the Rosey was half empty. So it is not about my loyalty or love of the team, it is about my frustration and desire to feel proud of the current state and direction.

 

[Natebishop3]

I did not want Morrison, but I did want Oden badly. I was wrong, so was KP. The difference is that I am a fan and KP was paid well to make the actual choice. Hindsight says it was wrong, it was wrong. We can talk about if it is fair or not on how we judge it, but in the end it has not been a positive for the Blazers or the fan base. That is a problem when you are in the professional basketball business with a focus on entertainment. I know you understand the issue, and I am not looking for a fight. KP was a nice guy, charismatic and interesting for us to observe for sure. I wish it was a different story, I really do because I love the organization and I invest part of my income into season tickets.

Watching Durant the other night just pushed me over the line in terms of where we stand, and where we could be standing. It is really frustrating to see the injuries pile up and the choices that put us in this situation. Much like the injuries, the judgement is not fair but it is there. I will never give up on the Blazers, shit I was one of the few that still went to games when the Rosey was half empty. So it is not about my loyalty or love of the team, it is about my frustration and desire to feel proud of the current state and direction.

You're just flat out wrong to blame KP for the Oden pick. This isn't Webster over Paul or Williams. Martell Webster was a reach, and everyone knew it at that time. He had no business going in the top ten. Period. Nash was a moron for taking Webster over Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Kevin Pritchard did what every other GM in the NBA would have done. He picked the dominant center over the scoring wing. That's just simple logic. We can lament the mistake, but we can't hold it against him.

 

[Wheels]

I'm still proud of my team

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm still proud of my team

Which team?

 

[Wheels]

Which team?

haha every single one of them. Even down to the Timbers who lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. And my Broncos who have taken Tebow in the 1st round, and got demolished by the raiders in the span of like 7 months

 

[Idog1976]

This shit again? Look, I'm not exactly the biggest KP fan (I think he was good at some parts of the job and not so good at a few others) but let this shit go.

This coming from the man who's signature was Oden in a wheel chair with his 2007 SLAM cover for most of the summer.

What the fuck ever hypocrite.

You've been one of the biggest Oden bashers for ages now and then you go and protect the man who chose him? Give me a fucking break.

 

[BGrantFan]

This coming from the man who's signature was Oden in a wheel chair with his 2007 SLAM cover for most of the summer.

What the fuck ever hypocrite.

You've been one of the biggest Oden bashers for ages now and then you go and protect the man who chose him? Give me a fucking break.

LOL

Don't hold back!

 

[Idog1976]

You're just flat out wrong to blame KP for the Oden pick. This isn't Webster over Paul or Williams. Martell Webster was a reach, and everyone knew it at that time. He had no business going in the top ten. Period. Nash was a moron for taking Webster over Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Kevin Pritchard did what every other GM in the NBA would have done. He picked the dominant center over the scoring wing. That's just simple logic. We can lament the mistake, but we can't hold it against him.

I agree with you here. However, the Oden bashers need to put the blame where it belongs on KP and PA. Other than that I completely agree with your post. So to sum up, if you're pissed about Oden then KP/PA are your targets. If there is something to get over around here it's that we HAVE Oden. So lets try and support the guy. Of course considering some of the glitterati in this forum are already turning on Roy...well I guess that speaks for itself. Just some incredibly lame fans to attack the players who are hurt.

 

[LittleAlex]

What happens if Oden actually returns from injury and is a dominate inside force?

Does KP automagically go from incompetent asshat to certified genius?


In another history lesson, Portland HAS had a center that had massive injury problems for a couple of years before having a healthy/successful season.
Walton was injured pretty much constantly for two seasons before 1977.
And he was pretty much constantly injured for every season after that.

But that one year he was healthy and awesome.
That's my hope for Oden.
Just a year or two of relative health for Portland to make some real noise.


Oh, and sometimes there isn't anyone to blame.
Sometimes it really isn't anyones fault.
Random bad shit just happens.

Though it does seem to happen more to Portland then seems reasonable.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

What happens if Oden actually returns from injury and is a dominate inside force?

Does KP automagically go from incompetent asshat to certified genius?

No. KP's mistake was not Oden over Durant. Every GM would have made that same pick.

His mistake was the Imaginary Cap Space fiasco and falling too much in love with his own players/friends and not trading for the best balance, basketball wise.