KP's biggest move?

[Fez Hammersticks]

To date, the biggest move since the firing of John Nash has been the acquisition of Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge.

The guys on 1080 touched on this a few weeks ago that this move was just as much Steve Patterson as it was KP, if not more. The credit for the maneuvers to dodge Houston and a few other teams have been given to KP, and only KP.

Steve Patterson and KP made the move for LaMarcus Aldridge as the Bobcats, who were sitting at #3, had a deal with another team that would have snagged LMA.

Outside of this draft, the best draft-day move has been stealing Nicolas Batum at #25. The jury is still out on the 2007 draft but it's looking more and more like a giant blunder.

So my question, is Kevin Pritchard overrated?

 

[RoyToy]

When KP was first hired the guys on 1080 said it was because of KP's moves made during the 2006 draft.

I personally think KP was mostly behind the 2006 draft. Lots of trades, got high character guys, drafted Freeland. That's KP's style.

KP is the man.

 

[MARIS61]

Yep, Joel Freeland was definitely his high point.

Where would we be without JF's many contributions that don't show up in the stat sheet?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Actually I heard from a good source that it was former Magic GM John Gabriel who was the most influential during the Roy/LMA draft. KP wanted Roy & LMA but it was Gabriel who figured out how to make it work.

Steve Patterson was a "Draft the Stache'r"

Look at the resumes of the people in the Blazer draft room. Look at the aggressive maneuvering that it took to get Roy. It's pretty obvious that it wasn't KP or Patterson.

KP deserves the credit for figuring out who the best two players in that draft were.

Gabriel deserves the credit for actually making the moves that got us those two players.

 

[Cake]

Yep, Joel Freeland was definitely his high point.

Where would we be without JF's many contributions that don't show up in the stat sheet?

At the risk of speaking for RoyToy, I think he was just using Joel Freeland as evidence that that was Pritchard's draft, not that drafting Freeland was a genius move.

 

[Eastoff]

KP also tried to get them to pick up Chris Paul instead of Webbster in 2005, but the hirer-ups wouldn't listen to a non-GM.

 

[jlprk]

Actually I heard from a good source that it was former Magic GM John Gabriel who was the most influential during the Roy/LMA draft. KP wanted Roy & LMA but it was Gabriel who figured out how to make it work...Look at the resumes of the people in the Blazer draft room. Look at the aggressive maneuvering that it took to get Roy. It's pretty obvious that it wasn't KP or Patterson...Gabriel deserves the credit for actually making the moves that got us those two players.

I read this at the time and posted the link on my board at the time. I thought of it sometimes since then but was doubting my own memory, since I long since forgot where I read it. Finally someone corroborated it. Thanks. Are you willing to give hints on your source?

Pritchard was a babe in the woods and was offered a trade by the other GM. He simply agreed to it with minimal tweaking. He wasn't a creative GM who thought up inventive trades. Also, Gabriel, a former GM of both Orlando and New York, was it? was on the Blazer scouting staff, and had made many trades while Pritchard was a neophyte. Also, besides Pritchard wanting Chris Paul, so did Warkentien. So did everyone besides Nash, yet Prtichard's history as imparted to Quick is that Pritchard possessed some special knowledge and was the lone holdout.

 

[hasoos]

Stashing Euros is fine if you have a stacked club and no roster spots available. But if your roster is not stacked, and is questionable at several positions, not so smart.

 

[LittleAlex]

Roy and LMA are the biggest moves he has made for the team.

The next biggest was a case where it is better to be lucky then good, IE signing Miller instead of Hedo.

KP's biggest mistake by far was over selling the value of RLEC. He raised expectations pretty damn high with regards to the moves he would make with that contract. When he didn't do anything with it (at the time) it was a huge let down and tarnished his image amongst some fans (myself included).

Drafting Claver instead of Blair is number two. Watching Blair do for the Spurs exactly what Portland needed a guy to do made me feel sick. This might change if A.) Claver actually plays in the NBA and B.) doesn't suck. The likelihood of these two things being true isn't all that great.

Other then those two things I think he has done a good job. I don't think the team will fall to pieces if he is fired and I don't think KP staying guarantees any level of success.

In that regard I would say that KP is over rated. Some guy actually wrote the team and said he wouldn't renew his season tickets if KP was fired. That's pretty stupid if you ask me and it giving way too much credit to KP with regards to team performance.

 

[jlprk]

Roy and LMA are the biggest moves he has made for the team.

Credit for the Roy and Aldridge trades should go to Gabriel, not Pritchard, as described above. Gabriel, who as Magic GM had already been awarded Executive of the Year (best GM), was under the inexperienced Pritchard, but made the trade mechanics happen. If Allen cans Pritchard, maybe he should inquire about Gabriel, who now runs the Knick scouting system.

Gabriel was EOY in 2000, Warkentien in 2009. We need that front office talent back to recover some ability to make trades.

 

[Idog1976]

Credit for the Roy and Aldridge trades should go to Gabriel, not Pritchard, as described above. Gabriel, who as Magic GM had already been awarded Executive of the Year (best GM), was under the inexperienced Pritchard, but made the trade mechanics happen. If Allen cans Pritchard, maybe he should inquire about Gabriel, who now runs the Knick scouting system.

Gabriel was EOY in 2000, Warkentien in 2009. We need that front office talent back to recover some ability to make trades.

If that is true about Gabriel, I would go for that switch. It's just like Nate, not many better available. The one guy I really like is pretty hated among Portland fans and would take balls to hire. Bill Laimbeer as coach, that would be crazy and I think brilliant.

 

[jlprk]

I don't know why Portland hates him. He did his damage to Eastern teams. And he was just doing what Chuck Daley told him. Same for Rodman and Isiah Thomas. Man, Laimbeer would sure make us tough and dirty.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I could get on board with a Laimbeer hiring ... it just feels like one of those 'unmitigated disaster' or 'stroke of genius' kinds of moves with no middle ground -- I love that kind of stuff.

 

[Drttimmy]

KP's biggest mistake by far was over selling the value of RLEC. He raised expectations pretty damn high with regards to the moves he would make with that contract. When he didn't do anything with it (at the time) it was a huge let down and tarnished his image amongst some fans (myself included).

I think Danny Ainge's best move as a GM was insisting Rondo not be included in the Garnett deal. So, maybe sometimes the best move is the deal a GM doesnt make. Just to play devils advocate. Not including Batum in those speculated RLEC deals involving Jefferson or Carter may prove to be his best GM decision. Especially if Miller can make our young pillars better players.

 

[RoyToy]

Roy and LMA are the biggest moves he has made for the team.

Agreed. Set up the franchise for the next decade.

The next biggest was a case where it is better to be lucky then good, IE signing Miller instead of Hedo.

Overall it turned out to be a good move. Was a big Miller guy before I saw how he fit in with the Blazers. Sometimes Miller/Roy just look bad together.

KP's biggest mistake by far was over selling the value of RLEC. He raised expectations pretty damn high with regards to the moves he would make with that contract. When he didn't do anything with it (at the time) it was a huge let down and tarnished his image amongst some fans (myself included).

Teams were lining up to trade all-stars, they just wanted more back in return(Bobcats wanted Batum for Wallace). I think this is a case where KP not making a move was the best move given the trades he was offered. I don't see what's so bad about hyping up RLEC. It's almost expected.

Drafting Claver instead of Blair is number two. Watching Blair do for the Spurs exactly what Portland needed a guy to do made me feel sick. This might change if A.) Claver actually plays in the NBA and B.) doesn't suck. The likelihood of these two things being true isn't all that great.

Claver was looked at as a potential lottery pick in the next couple of years and looks to be very skilled, but I won't argue too much with someone who had preferred Blair. I'm not sure it's a big deal, though.

Other then those two things I think he has done a good job. I don't think the team will fall to pieces if he is fired and I don't think KP staying guarantees any level of success.

In that regard I would say that KP is over rated. Some guy actually wrote the team and said he wouldn't renew his season tickets if KP was fired. That's pretty stupid if you ask me and it giving way too much credit to KP with regards to team performance.

Idk, I think KP has done a great job, and has totally turned around the franchise, on and off the court. He's exactly who Portland needs imo.

 

[LittleAlex]

Credit for the Roy and Aldridge trades should go to Gabriel, not Pritchard, as described above. Gabriel, who as Magic GM had already been awarded Executive of the Year (best GM), was under the inexperienced Pritchard, but made the trade mechanics happen. If Allen cans Pritchard, maybe he should inquire about Gabriel, who now runs the Knick scouting system.

Gabriel was EOY in 2000, Warkentien in 2009. We need that front office talent back to recover some ability to make trades.

Where did you hear that Gabriel was the main person responsible?

It's not that I find the idea unbelievable but I would like to read the original source for this believe.

 

[LittleAlex]

Teams were lining up to trade all-stars, they just wanted more back in return(Bobcats wanted Batum for Wallace). I think this is a case where KP not making a move was the best move given the trades he was offered. I don't see what's so bad about hyping up RLEC. It's almost expected.

The mistake was in how he sold RLEC not, not how it was used. That cap space eventually turned into Miler which wasn't a bad use by any stretch.

However, after his constant pimping of that cap space his inactivity was very disappointing.

He should have tempered expectations with that one.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The mistake was in how he sold RLEC not, not how it was used. That cap space eventually turned into Miler which wasn't a bad use by any stretch.

However, after his constant pimping of that cap space his inactivity was very disappointing.

He should have tempered expectations with that one.

This exactly.

The one thing I've learned about KP over the years is that he's the consummate PR guy, a salesman in the true sense of the word when it comes to crafting public perception and for the most part people lapped it up (myself included). But it was during the lead-up to the trade deadline in February of 2009 that I started wonder if he was getting cold feet and might not be capable of making a bold move (and even a little painful) when the moment was upon him ... or maybe he had the desire, but just couldn't figure out how to work a deal with another team where he wasn't attempting to rob them blind; like he was doing them a big solid by dumping a totally unproductive player with a large contract for an all-star, something that another team would have a very hard time selling to their fan base.

My gut feeling with KP is that he's still a pretty solid talent evaluator and does a good job of being the public face of a franchise, but isn't nearly as aggressive as he liked to claim or maybe doesn't possess the skill-set of a negotiator or the tact to deal with other executives without coming across as arrogant and entitled. I'm sure Some people will say that personality doesn't matter in business, but I strongly disagree; conducting business is largely built on the ability to foster relationships with people and to work deals where both parties can walk away feeling like they got what they wanted or at least walk away with something that they can sell to their fan base (even if one party does get the better of the other).

KP took a baby step this season when he showed a willingness to part with "Blakey" and Travis at the deadline, but I'm still not 100% convinced he's over being too emotionally attached to the player's he's drafted. If he's retained, the way he manages the team's involvement in the trade market during the draft and over the summer will be telling IMO.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm pretty sure that any thought of using RLEC ended in January of last season when Memphis signed Miles to a 10 day contract to screw the Blazers out of their cap space. Miles' contract went back on the books for both last season and this season and pushed the Blazers into luxury tax for last year. Had they used RLEC to sign another close-to-max player, they would have been into luxury tax for this year as well. I think the decision was made that there wasn't anybody available by last year's deadline that would have been enough of an impact player to be worth doing that and giving up having any cap space for last summer.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm pretty sure that any thought of using RLEC ended in January of last season when Memphis signed Miles to a 10 day contract to screw the Blazers out of their cap space. Miles' contract went back on the books for both last season and this season and pushed the Blazers into luxury tax for last year. Had they used RLEC to sign another close-to-max player, they would have been into luxury tax for this year as well. I think the decision was made that there wasn't anybody available by last year's deadline that would have been enough of an impact player to be worth doing that and giving up having any cap space for last summer.

You're confusing the soft cap with the luxury tax line. The team was never in any danger of exceeding the luxury tax line.

 

[RoyToy]

The mistake was in how he sold RLEC not, not how it was used. That cap space eventually turned into Miler which wasn't a bad use by any stretch.

However, after his constant pimping of that cap space his inactivity was very disappointing.

He should have tempered expectations with that one.

He was hyping an asset, that's not uncommon. There's nothing wrong with that, and I think you're just mad because KP couldn't make a miracle trade happen that everyone wanted. It sounds like it's more on you than it is on him.

Holding that against him is ridiculous imo, especially when he probably made the best move which was no trade at all. I trust that KP will never allow himself to get hosed, which is just one of many reasons why he's a good GM.

 

[RagingBull04]

I don't know if he is but his talent is overhyped.

 

[e_blazer]

No, I'm not confusing them, but I am extrapolating a bit as to what KP and his staff may have been looking at when they decided not to make a move using RLEC. The luxury tax threshold was just under $70M this year. The Blazers are at $59M with their salary right now. If they had used RLEC for a max-level player, say at around $12M, they wouldn't have had any cap space to use to get Miller, so that would have put them at around $64M, under the threshold for this season but totally screwed luxury tax-wise for the coming years after Roy's and Aldridge's raises kick in next year and even worse when Oden gets a new deal the following year.

 

[Nikolokolus]

No, I'm not confusing them, but I am extrapolating a bit as to what KP and his staff may have been looking at when they decided not to make a move using RLEC. The luxury tax threshold was just under $70M this year. The Blazers are at $59M with their salary right now. If they had used RLEC for a max-level player, say at around $12M, they wouldn't have had any cap space to use to get Miller, so that would have put them at around $64M, under the threshold for this season but totally screwed luxury tax-wise for the coming years after Roy's and Aldridge's raises kick in next year and even worse when Oden gets a new deal the following year.

Your words, not mine:

Miles' contract went back on the books for both last season and this season and pushed the Blazers into luxury tax for last year. Had they used RLEC to sign another close-to-max player, they would have been into luxury tax for this year as well

 

[e_blazer]

I left one other piece out. I assumed that if the Blazers didn't get Miller with cap space, they would still have needed to get another PG and probably would have used the MLE to do it, which would have put them right around the luxury tax threshold. Still, what I should have said in my original post was that the larger issue with using RLEC was luxury tax issues starting next season. The Blazers did have to pay luxury tax last season after Miles' contract went back on their books.

 

[jlprk]

Where did you hear that Gabriel was the main person responsible? It's not that I find the idea unbelievable but I would like to read the original source for this believe.

See Post numbers 4 and 7.

 

[jlprk]

You say that Pritchard had his choice of good players

Teams were lining up to trade all-stars...I don't see what's so bad about hyping up RLEC. It's almost expected.

Then you say it would have taken a miracle to get one.

He was hyping an asset, that's not uncommon. There's nothing wrong with that, and I think you're just mad because KP couldn't make a miracle trade happen that everyone wanted. It sounds like it's more on you than it is on him.

As for the hype defense, all I read at the time was that NBA experts agreed that the asset was true gold, not just Pritchard's hype. NBA GMs were quoted as saying they expected Portland's trade to be the big one of the midseason deadline. Not one hint that it was fake or overrated, as revisionist history now claims. RLEC wasn't just hype, it was gold. Insurance would have paid the salary. Since the remaining salary was more than $3M, the effect was the same as if Pritchard could break the NBA rule and include more than $3M cash.

I'm pretty sure that any thought of using RLEC ended in January of last season when Memphis signed Miles to a 10 day contract to screw the Blazers out of their cap space.

Then why did he try up to the last minute to make a trade. Quick reported he was exhausted on the February deadline day afternoon and shocked that no one had caved in to his demands of a giveaway.

I think you're just mad because KP couldn't make a MIRACLE trade happen that everyone wanted.

No, he couldn't make an EASY trade happen. He blew it.

I think you're just mad because KP couldn't make a miracle trade happen that everyone wanted. It sounds like it's more on you than it is on him. Holding that against him is ridiculous imo, especially when he probably made the best move which was no trade at all. I trust that KP will never allow himself to get hosed, which is just one of many reasons why he's a good GM.

If the best move is doing nothing, he sure is good at that. After failing to negotiate successfully with motivated seller GMs at the midseason deadline (he makes enemies when he tries), he went through 2 more summer failures (in which he avoided negotiating with GMs by just throwing big money at players, and was still outmaneuvered by GMs) before being forced to sign Andre Miller. (Only Allen's generosity made him feel "forced"--any other GM would have been "forced" by his owner NOT to spend every penny available, and would have wound up with nothing). Miller was at the bottom of the list of the so-called expert talent evaluator, the backup backup backup choice. You somehow construe Pritchard's random, stumbling arrival at a decent player as praise for him as if he planned it that way. As his fans say, KP is a genius!

 

[LittleAlex]

See Post numbers 4 and 7.

I hope you don't get offended but a posting on this board is not proof of anything. I was asking for the original news source so I could decide if the idea had merit.

For example, if it came from another message board then it has no merit. If it came from espn, then it has some merit.

If it was hoopsworld or realgm, see message boards.

 

[MARIS61]

At the risk of speaking for RoyToy, I think he was just using Joel Freeland as evidence that that was Pritchard's draft, not that drafting Freeland was a genius move.

You're saying it WASN'T a genius move?

 

[MARIS61]

In the final analysis, without Nate McMillan's stubborn insistence nobody in Blazer's management would have strongly considered going after Brandon Roy.

It was Nate who first pushed for getting Roy, and I remember reading before that draft several articles which quoted Nate speaking about his personal knowledge of Brandon's game and of his character and leadership abilities.