"Kyrie is Dame Lillard, scoring a bunch of points doing nothing."

[Fez Hammersticks]

Dame is looked at in this light from the msm for one reason: his teams have been extremely mediocre. Even when they made the playoffs, those Blazer teams were far from a conference power.

This falls on Neil IMO. It comes down to roster talent.

 

[handiman]

I started watching the NBA more than just casually around '83-84. By then, Kareem was approaching role player status. Put any journeyman 7'er in there in his place and I don't think that team misses a beat.

You're falling for the glitzy Hollywood Showtime provided by Worthy and Magic, so loved by the media. But they won because silent Jabbar did all the dirty work.

Funny you should use the word "motor." Look at all these posters who used the word "engine" for Kareem.

Nov 13, 2009
http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/ot-kareem.149469/page-2#post-2166934

Jun 19, 2013
http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/to...n-magic-and-duncan.238944/page-3#post-3035489

Jun 15, 2014
http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/th...nba-finals-thread.264240/page-11#post-3372690

Feb 6, 2016
http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/20...t-players-in-nba-history.295368/#post-3818626

 

[jlprk]

I started watching the NBA more than just casually around '83-84. By then, Kareem was approaching role player status. Put any journeyman 7'er in there in his place and I don't think that team misses a beat.

That's just what I mean. You and millions of others perceived him that way because the media portrayed him that way.

When he retired in 1989, the Lakers lost their mustard. All Magic style and no depth. I lived there in 1989-91 and watched every game on local TV.

Losing the things that great centers used to contribute are what shallows the modern game. Also, Europeanizing the screens, etc.

 

[Minstrel]

They called him Two Dames James for a reason.

Yeah, the media considered Worthy twice as good as Lillard. Throwing shade at Lillard even before he was born. That's bias!

 

[Minstrel]

Also, Worthy was a tremendous player. A bit overrated as a lot of non-primary stars on historic juggernauts are (pretty much every Celtic from Bill Russell's teams was put into the Hall of Fame) but he would have been a star on any team. He was perfect for the fast pace of Showtime, though.

 

[MarAzul]

The tale of the point guards.
Per game
Damian

Points 22.7. Assists 6.2 TO 2.1

Kyrie

Points 22.0 Assists 5.5 TO 2.7

Chris Paul

Points 18.7 Assists 9.9 TO 2.4

Now add one more piece of metadata, the A/M (assists/shots missed. Otherwise known as, does he pass the fucking ball?)

Chris Paul

Points 18.7 Assists 9.9 TO 2.4 A/M 1.34 <--- very good

Damian

Points 22.7. Assists 6.2 TO 2.1 A/M .62 <--- meh!

Kyrie

Points 22.0 Assists 5.5 TO 2.7 A/M .58 <--- ugly!

Now a great one, not the best of all time but outstanding

Magic Johnson

Points 19.5 assist 11.2 TO 3.9 A/M 1.77 <--- Wow!

KingSpeed put his finger on it!

Irving needs to pass the fucking ball

 

[BrianFromWA]

As we've discussed, though, A/Miss may be a slightly misleading stat. I get that the point of the assist is to "help your teammate get a basket", but it's interesting if you go a step further. First, HOU to POR. I thought for a second "HOU shoots way more an of course there's going to be more assists to go around, so Harden and CP3 can each average 9 or so while still gunning away". Not true. HOU averages 39.2 FG on 85.3FGA per game. POR averages 39.1FG on 86.0FGA (we shoot more per game than HOU?!). Yeah, but they also shoot 25% more FTs a game than we do (25 to 20).

CP3 shoots 2% better than Dame (45.9 to 43.9% overall, and 40.5 to 37.1% 3s) on 4 less shots per game, and can pass to:
A) Perennial MVP candidate James Harden
B) Eric "Gunner" Gordon
C) Ryan "standstill and bomb 3's at 38%" Anderson
D) Clint-and-Roll Capela (who shoots 67% on 9 shots a game)

Now for BOS (37.8 FG out of 84.5, so right there with us and HOU)
Kyrie shoots 4% better (48.2 to 43.9% overall, and 40.1 to 37.1% 3s) on the same amount of shots per game, and could pass to:
A) All-Star Al Horford
B) The #3 pick in the 2016 draft
C) The #3 pick in the 2017 draft

Dame has:
A) Almost-all-star CJ McCollum
B) Nurk?
C) Chief?

 

[MarAzul]

Yes, interesting. Damian has learned to play pick and roll well with ? on the team?
In fact, I can not identify a play where the first option is for Damian to get an assist. Same with Kyrie.

The assist they get are most often from passing when stopped in plan A.


Thus the Savvy coach will plan the defense to take away the most used bail out and press the ball handler into making a difficult plan A.

Every year we see this in action as the competition stiffens until we are eliminated. It only takes a few possessions moved to the miss column to make a ball game. Simply by playing the tendencies.

 

[MarAzul]

Curry is even better with A/M than Kyrie or Damian @ .77. While only a bit better in dishing out assist at 6.8 a game.

He just misses less, even with the green light from anywhere. His shot volume brings his A/M down even though shooting .591 over all and .437 three ball. But he does run enough plays to make the defense think about it. Watched him last night run two nice pick n roll plays.
(forced to succumb to it tied up here with the Santa Ana's whining in the rigging)

 

[SIeepwalker]

Yes, interesting. Damian has learned to play pick and roll well with ? on the team?.

You're trolling right ?

 

[MarAzul]

You're trolling right ?

Name?

 

[MarAzul]

That is the same name I come up with.

 

[dviss1]

Omg here we go...

 

[MarAzul]

Kyrie would be like Damian in that he hasn't lead his team anywhere.

Omg here we go...

Just being of assistance as to why this thread got started. I didn't start it.

 

[riverman]

Tim Frazier had 14 assists last night but he's not a better pt guard than any of the above mentioned...his team shot a high percentage...that's the key to assist numbers....team FG%

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yes, interesting. Damian has learned to play pick and roll well with ? on the team?
In fact, I can not identify a play where the first option is for Damian to get an assist. Same with Kyrie.

The assist they get are most often from passing when stopped in plan A.


Thus the Savvy coach will plan the defense to take away the most used bail out and press the ball handler into making a difficult plan A.

Every year we see this in action as the competition stiffens until we are eliminated. It only takes a few possessions moved to the miss column to make a ball game. Simply by playing the tendencies.

Your eyes are not passing the test or you are not able watch be games then.

Many games now dame has come right out and made an obvious poin to get nurk the ball on a pick n roll
The problem with assists is nurk has to make the shot for the assist to be credited.

 

[MarAzul]

The problem with assists is nurk has to make the shot for the assist to be credited

So it's not working all that well then.

 

[Orion Bailey]

So it's not working all that well then.

Not otvthe fault of dame though...
You are trolling now....have a good day.

 

[dviss1]

Just being of assistance as to why this thread got started. I didn't start it.

Im talking about your imaginary stat.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Im talking about your imaginary stat.

To be fair, every stat is imaginary until someone comes up with it. There was no PER 15-20 years ago. Now if you mean worthless stat then you might just be on to something.

 

[julius]

We made WCF 18 & 19 years ago.

Man that's depressing to see in print. But than again, it's been 26 and 28 years since they went to the finals.

 

[MarAzul]

You are trolling now....have a good day.

No, actually I came to contribute my opinion on why man would speak of two PGs as scoring a bunch doing nothing.

You didn't like my contribution and hopped to the defense. But you have none. Have a good day.

 

[Natebishop3]

The reason why our point guard scores a lot is because he's our best scorer. Most of our roster is fucking abysmal on offense. He played the pick and pop very well with LMA. I think Dame would average more assists if we had more weapons, but he's never going to be a Chris Paul, and frankly Chris Paul hasn't done shit. He had some pretty good teams in LA, and hen ever accomplished a thing.

 

[tester551]

The reason why our point guard scores a lot is because he's our best scorer. Most of our roster is fucking abysmal on offense. He played the pick and pop very well with LMA. I think Dame would average more assists if we had more weapons, but he's never going to be a Chris Paul, and frankly Chris Paul hasn't done shit. He had some pretty good teams in LA, and hen ever accomplished a thing.

That's BS. Dame is who he is... a good chucker. He looks for his shot a lot.
Teammate may impact it a little, but not significantly.

Dame's assist % is actually higher now than when he played with LMA, Nick & Wes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lillada01.html#2013-2018-sum:advanced

 

[BonesJones]

No, actually I came to contribute my opinion on why man would speak of two PGs as scoring a bunch doing nothing.

You didn't like my contribution and hopped to the defense. But you have none. Have a good day.

Someone should stick to the OT section!

 

[BonesJones]

That's BS. Dame is who he is... a good chucker. He looks for his shot a lot.
Teammate may impact it a little, but not significantly.

Dame's assist % is actually higher now than when he played with LMA, Nick & Wes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lillada01.html#2013-2018-sum:advanced

7APG isn't a chucker... and that's what Dame would have if he had a C that could finish at the rim.

 

[Natebishop3]

That's BS. Dame is who he is... a good chucker. He looks for his shot a lot.
Teammate may impact it a little, but not significantly.

Dame's assist % is actually higher now than when he played with LMA, Nick & Wes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lillada01.html#2013-2018-sum:advanced

That's because Nick handled the ball a lot. Dame will never be Chris Paul. That's not who he is. But outside of CJ we don't have a lot of guys that consistently shoot the ball.

 

[BBert]

7APG isn't a chucker... and that's what Dame would have if he had a C that could finish at the rim.

Baloney.

He'd average 8 APG

 

[BBert]

That's because Nick handled the ball a lot. Dame will never be Chris Paul. That's not who he is. But outside of CJ we don't have a lot of guys that consistently shoot the ball.

This is correct. The Prime Directive was to feed LaMarshmallow the ball. The primary feeder was Batum.

 

[SIeepwalker]

So it's not working all that well then.

I searched 30mins for that stat but couldn't find it again, but they said in a recent game that the total assists from Dame to Nurk is 2nd in the league for assist from one player to another. And that's with Nurk struggling to finish at the rim.