LaFrentz Trade Scenarios

[Denny Crane]

I see people seem to believe that the Blazers will make some sort of trade using LaFrentz' contract to improve the team, maybe by trade deadline.

I'm curious about a few things.

1) What happens if Miles plays 10 games with the Celtics - do you still see the Blazers using LaFrentz' contract?
2) What players do you see the Blazers going after in trade?
3) If the Blazers make such a trade, one or more younger players might have to be included in the deal - which ones?

I'm looking for "LaFrentz + X + Y for Z" and why both teams do it.

 

[Tortimer]

I see people seem to believe that the Blazers will make some sort of trade using LaFrentz' contract to improve the team, maybe by trade deadline.

I'm curious about a few things.

1) What happens if Miles plays 10 games with the Celtics - do you still see the Blazers using LaFrentz' contract?
2) What players do you see the Blazers going after in trade?
3) If the Blazers make such a trade, one or more younger players might have to be included in the deal - which ones?

I'm looking for "LaFrentz + X + Y for Z" and why both teams do it.

I'm not really crazy about this trade but if the Blazers are looking to be one of the top seeds with a chance to do some damage in the playoffs I think KP would think about this trade.

If Miami is looking to be about out of the playoffs I could see Miami wanting to get something for Marion before he walks next year.

Blazers trade LaFrenz + Webster + Sergio for Marion and maybe throw in some 2nd or even a 1st round pick. The Blazers have a tone of 2nd round picks in the next 2 or 3 years. Plus I doubt we will need next years pick that much. The Blazers really have nothing to lose unless Webster looks like their SF for the championship run. If Marion doesn't work out we don't try and sign him back and we still have a ton of cap space in 2009 to go for a SF FA. If Marion fits as our SF and plays great we try and sign him to a contract.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

LaFrentz+Rudy/Bayless + 2 first rounders to the Nets, for Vince Carter.

Can Carter still play SF?

 

[Magnum]

The odds of Raef being traded go up significantly if Miles plays 10 games with Boston. That damages our ability to make a big splash in FA while keeping/signing contracts for Webster/Blake/Frye etc.

While I would agree with those that say you overpay to get a player in FA, there may not be many good alternatives. Raef is a big contract, but that only appeals to a team looking to dump a good player for expiring+cheap talent. If a team is looking to dump that salary, there's probably a reason why. Zbo is a prime example. The players we really want aren't available for Raef...

Unless... you get your prime target, say a guy like Danny Granger, by absorbing other horrific contracts. How much is it worth to IND to be rid of the salaries of both Tinsley and Murphy? It's unlikely Granger becomes available, but you never know how bad a team wants to dump salary.

I'd much rather head to Free agency with piles of cap room, as you can still make salary lopsided trades.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

LaFrentz+Rudy/Bayless + 2 first rounders to the Nets, for Vince Carter.

Can Carter still play SF?

I'm gonna say no to that deal

 

[Tortimer]

LaFrentz+Rudy/Bayless + 2 first rounders to the Nets, for Vince Carter.

Can Carter still play SF?

I think that is even a worse trade then I proposed. Even if Rudy or Bayless look to be a bust I wouldn't want VC with his huge contract. If he had a contract like Marion of one year I might think about a trade for VC but not with his contract. I'm not sure VC has more then 1-2 years left playing at a high level.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

I'm gonna say no to that deal

Thought it was too much. 2 firsts only because the Blazer's firsts will probably be pretty late the next few years.

 

[Tortimer]

The odds of Raef being traded go up significantly if Miles plays 10 games with Boston. That damages our ability to make a big splash in FA while keeping/signing contracts for Webster/Blake/Frye etc.

While I would agree with those that say you overpay to get a player in FA, there may not be many good alternatives. Raef is a big contract, but that only appeals to a team looking to dump a good player for expiring+cheap talent. If a team is looking to dump that salary, there's probably a reason why. Zbo is a prime example. The players we really want aren't available for Raef...

Unless... you get your prime target, say a guy like Danny Granger, by absorbing other horrific contracts. How much is it worth to IND to be rid of the salaries of both Tinsley and Murphy? It's unlikely Granger becomes available, but you never know how bad a team wants to dump salary.

I'd much rather head to Free agency with piles of cap room, as you can still make salary lopsided trades.

If Miles salary goes back on the Blazers cap I think we will still have around 13-15 million under the cap next year maybe more if we want to let some of our FA's goes: Blake (team option), Frye, Webster, Sergio, Diogu.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Maybe we could convince Utah to think about trading Kirilenko to get out of his salary?

Nocioni? Although I don't feel he is that worth it.

Battier?

Diaw?

Harrington?

 

[Tortimer]

Maybe we could convince Utah to think about trading Kirilenko to get out of his salary?

Nocioni? Although I don't feel he is that worth it.

Battier?

Diaw?

Harrington?

I like Battier but we wouldn't need to trade Lafrenz because Battier salary isn't that much and Hou would want a real player if they are going to trade Battier. They don't need to dump salary.

 

[Magnum]

If Miles salary goes back on the Blazers cap I think we will still have around 13-15 million under the cap next year maybe more if we want to let some of our FA's goes: Blake (team option), Frye, Webster, Sergio, Diogu.

Sure we would, but we have to empty the cupboard to make it happen. We'd be throwing away assets like blake, frye, etc.

With Miles gone, we've got ample room to manuever in the FA market, but if Miles salary comes back, we may be best served trading those assets along with Raef rather than letting them walk away for nothing in order to scrape together a FA offer for someone.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Thought it was too much. 2 firsts only because the Blazer's firsts will probably be pretty late the next few years.

Carter is a great talent, but adding Bayless or Rudy so soon seems silly to me. We have plenty of 2nd rounders to use in trade, I wouldn't care as much if it was 1 future 1st.

I see Sergio, Webster/Outlaw, Frye being used more as "sweeteners" to go along with the huge expiring contract

 

[Tortimer]

Sure we would, but we have to empty the cupboard to make it happen. We'd be throwing away assets like blake, frye, etc.

With Miles gone, we've got ample room to manuever in the FA market, but if Miles salary comes back, we may be best served trading those assets along with Raef rather than letting them walk away for nothing in order to scrape together a FA offer for someone.

I agree 100% and if Miles playes 10 games I do think there would be a lot better chance of trading LaFrenz at the trade deadline.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I like Battier but we wouldn't need to trade Lafrenz because Battier salary isn't that much and Hou would want a real player if they are going to trade Battier. They don't need to dump salary.

Right, he was just a name I was throwing out there

The others could be used with Lafrentz contract though

 

[Natebishop3]

Gerald Wallace. Make it happen.

 

[Tortimer]

Gerald Wallace. Make it happen.

Thats a possibility and I like it.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Gerald Wallace. Make it happen.

Maybe would have to take Matt Carrolls contract too? They way overpaid for him.

 

[Natebishop3]

The way I look at it, we have four options:

1) We can hold onto our cap space and hope we can snatch up some free agent next summer (Josh Childress maybe).

2) We can hold onto our cap space and try to make a trade next summer, ala Marcus Camby and the Clippers.

3) We can trade Raef and maybe Outlaw for a good player, like Gerald Wallace or Shawn Marion.

4) We can re-sign all our guys that will be restricted free agents this summer (Web, Frye, etc.)

Personally, I am skeptical that there will be a free agent available who will be worth signing. The "trade cap space for players" idea might work, but not everyone is throwing away good players for nothing. I am most in favor of trading Raef and a young player for a veteran. I think it kills two birds with one stone. We thin the roster a bit, we add a nice talent to the team, and we're still able to re-sign Web, Frye, and anyone else who is a free agent this summer. I think it is the best way to go.

 

[Minstrel]

I would absolutely love to get Gerald Wallace, but why would Charlotte give him up? He's one of their few talented players and he isn't old and overpaid (as I recall, on the overpaid part). He doesn't seem like the sort of player that would be available for expiring contracts. But perhaps, if we took back a big salary they do want to dump (like Carroll, as JFizzleRaider suggested) and maybe threw in, like, Webster or Outlaw and a draft pick.

 

[wastro]

It's hard to trade Raef's contract.

First, it's going to be hard to trade for someone else making about $13 million, straight up. Out of all the players making that much, how many would fit with our culture? How many fill a need? How many are on the block?

Second, it's going to be hard to trade for two or more players making a sum total of $13 million. If they trade Raef for two good role players, where will those players fit in? KP has already said he likes his top 10 guys.

Third, if the Blazers have to package someone like Blake, Webster or Outlaw, that's just more salary they have to take back. At that point, can they find someone worth it?

I personally don't see the Blazers making a move. If KP makes a splash and trades Raef in a Kidd/Shaq-esque deal at the deadline, he's going to have to blow up the core, at least a little bit. And I'm not sure if he's ready or willing to do that yet.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

Carter is a great talent, but adding Bayless or Rudy so soon seems silly to me. We have plenty of 2nd rounders to use in trade, I wouldn't care as much if it was 1 future 1st.

I see Sergio, Webster/Outlaw, Frye being used more as "sweeteners" to go along with the huge expiring contract

Carter could probably play point forward for the Blazers, if that was what was asked of him. That would help the Blazer's starters, because they lack a true point (assuming they go Roy/Fernandez/Carter/LMA/Oden)

I think I'm trying too hard to match the Kidd trade, which was absolute rape by the Nets.

Take away a first?

By the way, Carter ends in 2010.
http://sportstwo.com/NBASalaries.php?#jump_POR
Most of your young Talent goes through that period, so you'll still have cap space to make them happy.

 

[Minstrel]

Third, if the Blazers have to package someone like Blake, Webster or Outlaw, that's just more salary they have to take back. At that point, can they find someone worth it?

Ideal is you trade LaFrentz and, say, Outlaw for a package like Gerald Wallace and a bad contract. Wallace is the target and the bad contract is just the cost of doing business and you just let the player attached to the bad contract rot on the bench (like we've done with LaFrentz) and wait for the contract to expire (and, hey, maybe flip THAT contract when it's about to expire).

That's the best way this could be done. How likely it is, I have no idea.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's hard to trade Raef's contract.

First, it's going to be hard to trade for someone else making about $13 million, straight up. Out of all the players making that much, how many would fit with our culture? How many fill a need? How many are on the block?

Second, it's going to be hard to trade for two or more players making a sum total of $13 million. If they trade Raef for two good role players, where will those players fit in? KP has already said he likes his top 10 guys.

Third, if the Blazers have to package someone like Blake, Webster or Outlaw, that's just more salary they have to take back. At that point, can they find someone worth it?

I personally don't see the Blazers making a move. If KP makes a splash and trades Raef in a Kidd/Shaq-esque deal at the deadline, he's going to have to blow up the core, at least a little bit. And I'm not sure if he's ready or willing to do that yet.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...54~2015~2211~1026&teams=30~30~22~22&te=&cash=

You take roughly 10 million off their books, you give them a good talent at a bargain price, and you give them some cap flexibility for 2010.

The Blazers get Wallace, who was a blue chip free agent two summers ago.

Blake, Bayless, Sergio
Roy, Rudy
Wallace, Webster, Caroll, Batum
Aldridge, Frye, Diogu
Oden, Przybilla

 

[wastro]

Ideal is you trade LaFrentz and, say, Outlaw for a package like Gerald Wallace and a bad contract. Wallace is the target and the bad contract is just the cost of doing business and you just let the player attached to the bad contract rot on the bench (like we've done with LaFrentz) and wait for the contract to expire (and, hey, maybe flip THAT contract when it's about to expire).

That's the best way this could be done. How likely it is, I have no idea.

That would be a great trade. I would hate to give up Outlaw, but Portland would be set with its starting SF. (Of course, I don't see Charlotte doing it. But I have been wrong before!)

 

[Minstrel]

That would be a great trade. I would hate to give up Outlaw, but Portland would be set with its starting SF. (Of course, I don't see Charlotte doing it. But I have been wrong before!)

To be clear, I didn't mean specifically that trade. I was just using it as an example of a way this could be handled nicely...you get one very good player back who essentially replaces the out-going Outlaw, but a lot of the salary is absorbed by a player who won't be taking minutes or shots from anyone else.

Devin Harris and some big contract (not Carter, I can't see them trading their best two players) from New Jersey would be wonderful, but I assume New Jersey isn't so desperate to dump salary that they'd part with Harris.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

To be clear, I didn't mean specifically that trade. I was just using it as an example of a way this could be handled nicely...you get one very good player back who essentially replaces the out-going Outlaw, but a lot of the salary is absorbed by a player who won't be taking minutes or shots from anyone else.

Devin Harris and some big contract (not Carter, I can't see them trading their best two players) from New Jersey would be wonderful, but I assume New Jersey isn't so desperate to dump salary that they'd part with Harris.

No way. Harris is a bargain at 7 million a year.

And I don't think we're just going to try to dump Carter. We're going to try to get some value.

 

[bodyman5001]

I'm gonna say no to that deal

You forgot the word hell

 

[The_Lillard_King]

No way. Harris is a bargain at 7 million a year.

And I don't think we're just going to try to dump Carter. We're going to try to get some value.

And even if trying to dump Carter, I can't see NJ getting rid of Harris to do it. Harris is a building block NJ will hold on to.

But you will see a lot of proposals from Blazers for Harris . . . since it came out last season that KP was very interested in him.

 

[Minstrel]

No way. Harris is a bargain at 7 million a year.

I wasn't saying Harris was the "dump" player. I was saying maybe Portland could take back a bad contract from New Jersey as part of the inducement for New Jersey to deal Harris.

But I agree it's a pipe dream. I just love Devin Harris, thought New Jersey completely ripped Dallas off for him and am sad Portland wasn't the one to rip Dallas off.

And I don't think we're just going to try to dump Carter. We're going to try to get some value.

Perhaps. I don't think Carter is a surefire "dump" casualty. But I think he's a candidate to be Camby'd.

 

[number 10]

so just humor me, I know nothing this complex would ever go down, but...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...ms=14~21~14~22~18~21~21~18~14~21~22&te=&cash=
thoughts?

And does anyone else think that Raja Bell, at the right price, would be a good SF for the Blazers? I know he's really a SG, but isn't he the one always guarding the other team's best perimeter scorer?