LaMarcus Aldridge- All NBA 3rd team

[B-Roy]

He can effect a game on the defensive side, sure. But, from an offensive standpoint, he's good, not as great as people make him out to be.

So how is that not gamechanging? Rose and Durant change the game on offense, but do they do the same on defense? What makes them worth more than Howard? I don't think many people consider Howard a great offensive player, but he averaged 22 points on 62% TS last season.

How many players in the league can alter the game on defense like him?

 

[MickZagger]

So how is that not gamechanging? Rose and Durant change the game on offense, but do they do the same on defense? What makes them worth more than Howard? I don't think many people consider Howard a great offensive player, but he averaged 22 points on 62% TS last season.

How many players in the league can alter the game on defense like him?

I never said he wasn't a game changer. He just doesn't have the impact on a game that people make him out to have.

Durant and Rose are both above average to good defenders. Both also make their teammates better than I think Howard does. He's a fringe top 5 player IMO. I'm not saying he's not good. Just that he's not as good as people make him out to be.

 

[THE HCP]

D12 has no offensive game whatsoever, but he IS a gamechanger! No doubt about it.

 

[B-Roy]

I never said he wasn't a game changer. He just doesn't have the impact on a game that people make him out to have.

Howard just isn't a game changer like people make him out to be.

You're implying he's not a game changer.

Durant and Rose are both above average to good defenders. Both also make their teammates better than I think Howard does. He's a fringe top 5 player IMO. I'm not saying he's not good. Just that he's not as good as people make him out to be.

Fair enough....but while Durant and Rose are above average defenders, they cover one guy on the floor. Howard basically covers everyone.

I don't consider either Rose or Durant top 5. Looking at your top 5, I see you seem to value scoring alot, so that probably explains things.

 

[B-Roy]

D12 has no offensive game whatsoever, but he IS a gamechanger! No doubt about it.

Marcus Camby has no offensive game whatsoever. You can't average 23 points per game without having some sort of offensive game.

 

[MickZagger]

I never implied he wasn't a game changer. Thats where you're wrong. I just dont think he changes games like the 2nd best player in the league should. Its gray matter. Not black, or white.

I value the best scorer in the league pretty highly. Sure. Back to back scoring champ. As for Rose, I almost would rate him over Lebron. He's ridiculous in all facets of the game and is leading a mediocre roster to 60 wins and a trip to the Eastern Conference finals.

 

[B-Roy]

I never implied he wasn't a game changer. Thats where you're wrong. I just dont think he changes games like the 2nd best player in the league should. Its gray matter. Not black, or white.

So are you admitting he's the 2nd best player in the league? Or close to it? Apparently, he's not even top 5 for you.

Also here's a stat:

Howard is assisted on 53% of his shots.
Dirk is assisted on 63% of his shots.
Durant is assisted on 62% of his shots.

I would say Howard's offense is almost as game changing as Dirk's or Durant's.

I value the best scorer in the league pretty highly. Sure. Back to back scoring champ.

Plenty of players have averaged a ton of points.

As for Rose, I almost would rate him over Lebron. He's ridiculous in all facets of the game and is leading a mediocre roster to 60 wins and a trip to the Eastern Conference finals.

Rose is the most overrated player in the game, but it's pointless arguing that.

I can't help but notice all the guys on your list are guys who have been great recently. It's the "what have you done for me lately" syndrome. I doubt you would have put Dirk in your top 5 last year despite him being the exact same player.

 

[MickZagger]

He's doesn't impact a game like the 2nd best player in the league should. Therefore, he's not the 2nd best player in the league in my book.

Rose is taking a team with mediocre talent to the Eastern Conference finals. I've always been a Dirk fan, he's unguardable. But, yes. His performance this year and in the playoffs has put him in my top 5 just ahead of Howard and CP3.

 

[THE HCP]

You can't average 23 points per game without having some sort of offensive game.

Depends on what you call having an offensive game. If you call putback dunks and shooting 15 FTs a game then yes he does. I love Howard, I'm just saying he has NO POST moves whatsoever.

 

[THE HCP]

If you want low post moves, go google Hakeem son.

 

[B-Roy]

He's doesn't impact a game like the 2nd best player in the league should. Therefore, he's not the 2nd best player in the league in my book.

That's fair, but putting 4 guys above him means you think 4 guys are better than him.

Rose is taking a team with mediocre talent to the Eastern Conference finals.

Factually speaking...this is correct but......I think even Portland could make the Eastern Conference Finals facing Indiana and Atlanta....

 

[B-Roy]

Depends on what you call having an offensive game. If you call putback dunks and shooting 15 FTs a game then yes he does. I love Howard, I'm just saying he has NO POST moves whatsoever.

Before this season...maybe, but this season...

That's not true, especially if you watched the Atlanta series. They dropped the ball into him almost every time and he put 27 PPG on 60% shooting.

Getting to the line and putbacks are part of his offensive game, but it's clearly not his only measure of offense, especially since he's a big.

 

[Minstrel]

People are really underestimating Howard's offense. In past seasons, he was just a garbage man on offense but this season he's become much more capable of getting the ball dumped into him and scoring or drawing a foul.

Combining his best defense in the league, best rebounding in the league and impact offense (good enough to score 20+ PPG plus draw double teams), I think he's arguably the most valuable player in the league, but at least second behind James.

 

[STOMP]

just going on straight stats for the fantasy league I play in Howard was clearly the #1 guy this last season

I'm not saying he's clearly the actual best player in the league, but he's in the argument.

STOMP

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Howard's post moves improved a ton this year. He actually has some good ones.

 

[LameR]

I never implied he wasn't a game changer.

Howard just isn't a game changer like people make him out to be.

Huh?

 

[MickZagger]

Huh?

Its not really hard to understand. He's not the game changer that people make him out to be. Doesn't mean he doesn't have a game changing impact.

 

[Rhal]

Well i'll start out my first post being on topic, Big congrats to LMA for making third team all nba, well deserved.

 

[Rhal]

Howard is a huge game changer no matter how you look at it. He is a monster in the paint on both sides of the floor to the fact that he demands a double team or he is getting a dunk is huge. He doesn't have many post moves but when you can power over anyone you don't need that many to get 20ppg. The only effective way to handle Howard is to foul him, and he has improved his FT % and if he can get it up past 75% that won't be a very good option anymore.
#2 in rebounds, #2 in FG %, #4 in blocks, #11 in PPG at 22.9. The guy is a monster and the best defender in the league as well as one of the top help defenders in the league too. Orlando doesn't have another good post defender so he takes on the brunt of the work there. Not only do you have do you have to take into account Howards on offense you have to do it on defense too. teams have to create there offense around how to score vs Howard. How many players can you really say that about?

 

[Draco]

Howard is in the conversation for best player in the league, personally I would take LeBron but Howard is right there in the mix. I can’t believe someone who scored 27ppg is talked about having no offensive game, what a joke. By that logic Shaq had no offensive game when he was threepeating with the Lakers since Shaq didn’t hit 20ft jump shots.

How can people say Rose lead a mediocre roster to the ECF but not talk about Howards horrible teammates? He has Turkoglu and Gilbert Arenas as his two sidekicks, Rose has Boozer, Noah and Dang in the frontcourt along with solid role players on the bench. SG is the only Bulls weakness. Howard made Rashard Lewis and Turkoglu look like all-stars when he carried them to the finals by collapsing a defense and getting everyone wide open jumpers. Howards game has even improved since that finals trip. Rose is a great player but he doesn’t command a double team like Howard and his defense is miles behind the DPOY.

 

[Minstrel]

Rose doesn't have a mediocre team around him. He has mediocre offensive teammates, but the Bulls have the best team defense in the NBA and it's not due to Rose. Rose is passable on defense, but is not some kind of defensive monster. The team is similar to the Isiah Thomas-led Pistons...only Thomas was anything special offensively, but they had great defense and rebounding. And it's not like these Bulls are some kind of juggernaut.

 

[MickZagger]

Rose doesn't have a mediocre team around him. He has mediocre offensive teammates, but the Bulls have the best team defense in the NBA and it's not due to Rose. Rose is passable on defense, but is not some kind of defensive monster. The team is similar to the Isiah Thomas-led Pistons...only Thomas was anything special offensively, but they had great defense and rebounding. And it's not like these Bulls are some kind of juggernaut.

The pieces from a defensive standpoint arent much different than last year. In fact, Tyrus Thomas was a better defender than Boozer (who is awful). The difference has been from a schematic standpoint with a coach that is a defensive guru. From an offensive standpoint they're mediocre. Omar Asik, Bogans, Kurt Thomas, CJ Watson as rotational players on an Eastern Conference Finals team is pretty ridiculous and says a lot about what Rose has done for that team. Those Pistons teams never had reserves that inept.

Who's saying they'e a 'juggernaut'? But, a 60 win team and an Eastern Conference finals team with that roster 1-16 is pretty impressive.

 

[Minstrel]

Those Pistons teams never had reserves that inept.

Those Pistons also had significantly tougher competition to get through. I'm not saying this Bulls team is exactly as good as that Pistons team, but it's built along similar lines. A great team defense, very good team rebounding, no offense stand-outs except for their star point guard. The Pistons had better reserves, but were facing teams like an an end-of-prime legendary Celtics team and an up-and-coming Bulls team. The Bulls struggled slightly with a very mediocre Pacers team and a decent Hawks team.

I don't think team accomplishment shows Rose is amazing. His quantifiable contributions are pretty impressive and they make him a top-ten player. The Bulls' accomplishments are as much a matter of what the team does well (defense, rebounding) as it is Rose.

 

[MickZagger]

In fact, looking at that roster who are the great individual defenders? Of course you got Noah and Bogans. But, outside that Deng? meh. Brewer? meh.

They win with team defense. Any team could do it. Not every coach can implement it.

 

[PapaG]

The 3-time defending DPOY and 4-time defending All-NBA first team player isn't worthy of being called a great "game changer".

Fucking brilliant. I guess Bill Russell was an overrated "game changer" as well.

 

[PapaG]

I never had really analyzed Howard's Advanced Stats.

Looking at his last 3 seasons, and all I can say is Holy Crap!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html

We Blazer fans had better hope to God or whatever else you believe in that the Lakers don't get this guy. He's putting up these numbers with crap for sidekicks.

 

[BigVolcano]

I'd go:

1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Chris Paul
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Deron Williams
8. Derrick Rose
9. Russell Westbrook
10. Pau Gasol
11. Kobe Bryant
12. LaMarcus Aldridge
13. Amare Stoudemire
14. Rajon Rondo
15. Carmelo Anthony

Lol?

 

[PapaG]

Howard 2010-11

PER 26
Ortg 113
Drtg 94
WS 14.4
DWS 7.7
TReb% 21.8
TS% 61.6

I think a legitimate argument could be made that Howard should have been MVP. That's a simply incredible season.

23ppg/14rpg/2.5bpg

He's overrated as a game changer!! :MARIS61:

 

[MickZagger]

The 3-time defending DPOY and 4-time defending All-NBA first team player isn't worthy of being called a great "game changer".

Fucking brilliant. I guess Bill Russell was an overrated "game changer" as well.

Mutombo?

 

[PapaG]

Speaking of Rose, I'll go out on a limb and state that Brandon Roy meant more to the 2008-09 Blazers than Derrick Rose did to the Bulls this season. Plus, Roy's advanced stats, and even win shares, surpass Rose's MVP season.