Late game substitutions

[TBpup]

Last night was only the latest example of the Blazers not putting their best situational team on the court for a specific possession. Stotts was horrible at this and if last night is any indication, Billups is continuing the same trend.

WHY would you let two of your poorest/porous defenders remain on the floor in an end game situation?
The final possession had Cov/Little/Powell/CJ/Ant on the floor supposedly for switchability purchases. But what team needs a switch when it is so easy to get by whomever is in front of you?

First of all, it's the dreaded 3-guard lineup.
Second of all, your two guards have been getting torched all night....and then you keep them both in the game for a possession that is most likely going through Edwards or Russell?
Then taking out Nurk to protect against the inevitable blow by.

Some rotation of Nurk/RoCo/Little/Powell/DSJ seems better from a TEAM standpoint for a final possession. If ego is getting in the way of a team outcome, then those egos need to go, or they need to take steps necessary to be able to stay on the court.

It is one possession. Why won't our coaches do that?

 

[Cugel]

I thought maybe he held Nurk out because of his fouls and the chance of OT??

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Last night was only the latest example of the Blazers not putting their best situational team on the court for a specific possession. Stotts was horrible at this and if last night is any indication, Billups is continuing the same trend.

WHY would you let two of your poorest/porous defenders remain on the floor in an end game situation?
The final possession had Cov/Little/Powell/CJ/Ant on the floor supposedly for switchability purchases. But what team needs a switch when it is so easy to get by whomever is in front of you?

First of all, it's the dreaded 3-guard lineup.
Second of all, your two guards have been getting torched all night....and then you keep them both in the game for a possession that is most likely going through Edwards or Russell?
Then taking out Nurk to protect against the inevitable blow by.

Some rotation of Nurk/RoCo/Little/Powell/DSJ seems better from a TEAM standpoint for a final possession. If ego is getting in the way of a team outcome, then those egos need to go, or they need to take steps necessary to be able to stay on the court.

It is one possession. Why won't our coaches do that?

I think it has more to do with Billups as new coach things he has to learn or could be he wants a guy like Simons to be put in situations like this to learn from them. He’s part of the future and this year is great opportunity to sacrifice a win for the bigger picture. If it means we lose couple of games so be it, in the end we aren’t a title contender so get these guys experience for next year. We are already seeing huge growth

 

[TBpup]

I thought CJ and Ant played better defense last night than they did offense.....had no problem with him wanting quick guys to switch with Nurk in foul trouble ...my issue last night was using Roco as the shooter at the end of every possession when he couldn't shoot or make a layiup all night......defense wasn't our glaring problem last night....it was offense. Chauncey also reads fatigue into guys when he sits them...he's mentioned it often...something fans don't see the way a coach does...this and we're just undermanned....coming of a long road trip with a game the next day.....I'm actually surprised we only lost by two in the second half. Also....we don't have any backcourt length anyway. N0rm got completely ignored on offense all night....don't think that made him very happy as he had wide open shots and they just didn't get him the ball...I think Chauncey is getting better and better at timeouts and rotations....but I also thought Stotts was a good endgame coach so we disagree with that off the bat......sometimes you just get outhustled or shot out of a game...we got shot of the game.agree to disagree about Chauncey and Terry on this thread but it's all good.

This was specifically talking about the last possession and the almost obvious substitutions that didn't take place, as has been an issue a number of times. Not sure what all the other stuff if referring to. Sure, CJ/Ant may have been better on defense than offense last night, but that bar was so low, it still wasn't very good.

If we have a final shot in a tie game, wouldn't we want our best offensive players on the court?
Same goes on the defensive end for a final possession. Yet time and time again, we have multiple members of our poorest defenders club out there.

If Coach wants it to be a learning experience for Ant, that at least makes some sense. But then why have BOTH he and CJ out there? CJ's learning curve has come and gone.

 

[TBpup]

disagree....CJ is playing some of the best defense of his career recently and final possessions who do you want shooting? Roco? Ant grows with trust....he just didn't come through last night...and that's going to happen when you give him a chance sometimes...Dennis Smith Jr is a better defender than either guy but I understand letting Ant face that situation...CJ is getting shade I don't think he deserves on the defensive side of the ball recently...he's played much, much better defense under Chauncey. Turnovers and poor shooting lost the game....not defense...Ant and CJ actually trapped a few times and caused the Wolves to turn it over....I was impressed with that effort...just couldn't make a shot when we needed a shot....Norm needed more touches last night...he was wide open a lot without touching the ball. Also Stotts coached some brilliant endgame plays during his tenure so I don't get the shade on him or Chauncey....I think that's a stretch but you know I like both coaches ......

My goodness.....I've been talking about the final defensive possession of the game the entire time. What does that have to do with who is shooting? And CJ's "best defense of his career" is still well behind DSJ or Powell.

 

[TBpup]

DSJ is our best pt guard defender....sure....coach gave Ant that job last night....you are talking about the endgame....if it's just one play then you might clarify that but you are addressing rotations...not play calling ...I tried to address both and why I think Chauncey made the call he did. Chauncey answered that and Ant took full responsibility on that second half being him not playing well.....I can live with that.......now what didn't happen in the last play was Stotts......so if I mention outlying circumstances...what is bringing Stotts into it have to do with the last play...that's your "my goodness" post.....two things you said...CJ is a bad defender and Stotts was a bad coach....both are why I expounded on the topic because those two factors to me had nothing to do with the game and in my view weren't correct observations....

Clarify? Read the posts. The final possession is all I've talked about the entire time. The words "final possession, specific possession or one possession" are mentioned 4x in the OP. Then "last possession and final possession were used in the follow up post. Exactly how much more clarity would you suggest?

Also, where did I say Stotts was a bad coach? Nowhere. I did reference him being horrible at the exact, specific type of situation I was describing as he allowed some of his worst defenders in the game in final shot/last possession defensive stands over and over again.

Is it possible a nap is going on while replying?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Last night was only the latest example of the Blazers not putting their best situational team on the court for a specific possession. Stotts was horrible at this and if last night is any indication, Billups is continuing the same trend.

WHY would you let two of your poorest/porous defenders remain on the floor in an end game situation?
The final possession had Cov/Little/Powell/CJ/Ant on the floor supposedly for switchability purchases. But what team needs a switch when it is so easy to get by whomever is in front of you?

First of all, it's the dreaded 3-guard lineup.
Second of all, your two guards have been getting torched all night....and then you keep them both in the game for a possession that is most likely going through Edwards or Russell?
Then taking out Nurk to protect against the inevitable blow by.

Some rotation of Nurk/RoCo/Little/Powell/DSJ seems better from a TEAM standpoint for a final possession. If ego is getting in the way of a team outcome, then those egos need to go, or they need to take steps necessary to be able to stay on the court.

It is one possession. Why won't our coaches do that?

i think i can answer this. Because cj and ant are also our best ling ball threats currently and in order to win the game we likely needed a ling bomb to go in from one of them. As it is cj hot the 3 with a few seconds left. Take them out and i think we lose by more in this scenario.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm not tied to your posts and what you've narrowed down in terms of the late game......I read your post.....didn't take offense to it but didn't agree with it either....that doesn't mean I can't expound on the "late game rotation" topic in the title of the thread....

my G man. Just say you made a mistake. Lol. Its not that hard….

you asked him to clarify something he made very clear. No “oops. Missed that”. Or “sorry”?

 

[wizenheimer]

Minny got the ball in a tie game with 10 seconds left. Shot clock turned off. Blazers had a time-out so they didn't need to transition immediately to offense if Minny shot early

Blazers could have went with their best defense lineup: Smith-Powell-Little-RoCo-Nurk; which also happens to be their best rebounding lineup in case of a missed FG by Minny (rebound and call timeout).

so yeah, it's hard to defend that lack of situational awareness

 

[wizenheimer]

i think i can answer this. Because cj and ant are also our best ling ball threats currently and in order to win the game we likely needed a ling bomb to go in from one of them. As it is cj hot the 3 with a few seconds left. Take them out and i think we lose by more in this scenario.

Portland had a time-out. They would have had an opportunity to advance the ball (which they used) and to bring CJ and Simons back into the game

besides, as I mentioned in the earlier post, for Minny the shot clock was off in a tie game. They could have run out the clock with a shot just before time expired. Portland should have been all-in on the defensive end. CJ and Simons is the opposite of being all-in on defense

 

[Pinwheel1]

Yeah with Towns in the game I would have left Nurk in. Little was on Edwards, and although Ant was very close to making a great defensive play on Russell...... RoCo should have been covering him.

 

[wizenheimer]

again I thought CJ and Ant played great defense most of the night to compensate for cold shooting...they doubled and trapped and caused turnovers...just couldn't score on the other end....I think that is going unnoticed about last nights game......Nurk's foul trouble kept him out probably thinking he'd be needed in OT if we scored last possession....we didn't though so.....trap game..Chauncey answered your timeout question in the post game and I thought he was clear....I'm sure he learned from it

I don't agree. Their defense wasn't good enough to not have better defenders on the floor, and Powell and Smith are better defenders

and of course, Simons couldn't stop Russell when it counted. Powell might have

 

[TBpup]

i think i can answer this. Because cj and ant are also our best ling ball threats currently and in order to win the game we likely needed a ling bomb to go in from one of them. As it is cj hot the 3 with a few seconds left. Take them out and i think we lose by more in this scenario.

But again, I am and was referring very specifically to the last defensive possession, so it had nothing to do with who they might need to take a shot. They still had a timeout, so can make offensive substitutions then.

Minny got the ball in a tie game with 10 seconds left. Shot clock turned off. Blazers had a time-out so they didn't need to transition immediately to offense if Minny shot early

Blazers could have went with their best defense lineup: Smith-Powell-Little-RoCo-Nurk; which also happens to be their best rebounding lineup in case of a missed FG by Minny (rebound and call timeout).

so yeah, it's hard to defend that lack of situational awareness

Yay....someone read it and gets it. Thank you.

agree....which from your post shows we agree about why CJ an Ant were in the game....Chauncey tried switching with a small ball lineup

Except that you were quoting my posts, but then misquoting what I said or not referring to the very specific situation mentioned. No worries I guess, but it is quite confusing. I agree about what they would want at the end on the final offensive possession, but that had nothing to do with the final defensive possession as they had a timeout remaining.

 

[Orion Bailey]

But again, I am and was referring very specifically to the last defensive possession, so it had nothing to do with who they might need to take a shot. They still had a timeout, so can make offensive substitutions then.



Yay....someone read it and gets it. Thank you.



Except that you were quoting my posts, but then misquoting what I said or not referring to the very specific situation mentioned. No worries I guess, but it is quite confusing. I agree about what they would want at the end on the final offensive possession, but that had nothing to do with the final defensive possession as they had a timeout remaining.

but maybe the coach wanted to save the time out for one other last possession? Id have to look at the seconds left but don't cj hit the 3 with less than 10 seconds?
Maybe the defensive stops doesnt come in time to call a timeout?
Im just not sure i see the decision making as black and white in this scenario.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Portland had a time-out. They would have had an opportunity to advance the ball (which they used) and to bring CJ and Simons back into the game

besides, as I mentioned in the earlier post, for Minny the shot clock was off in a tie game. They could have run out the clock with a shot just before time expired. Portland should have been all-in on the defensive end. CJ and Simons is the opposite of being all-in on defense

But again, I am and was referring very specifically to the last defensive possession, so it had nothing to do with who they might need to take a shot. They still had a timeout, so can make offensive substitutions then.



Yay....someone read it and gets it. Thank you.



Except that you were quoting my posts, but then misquoting what I said or not referring to the very specific situation mentioned. No worries I guess, but it is quite confusing. I agree about what they would want at the end on the final offensive possession, but that had nothing to do with the final defensive possession as they had a timeout remaining.

i might not have the last couple of possessions and timeline remembered correctly. I forgot they would have been able to run out the clock. thats a deal breaker there.

My fault. I get it now.

 

[TBpup]

DSJ is our best pt guard defender....sure....coach gave Ant that job last night....you are talking about the endgame....if it's just one play then you might clarify that but you are addressing rotations...not play calling ...I tried to address both and why I think Chauncey made the call he did. Chauncey answered that and Ant took full responsibility on that second half being him not playing well.....I can live with that.......now what didn't happen in the last play was Stotts......so if I mention outlying circumstances...what is bringing Stotts into it have to do with the last play...that's your "my goodness" post.....two things you said...CJ is a bad defender and Stotts was a bad coach....both are why I expounded on the topic because those two factors to me had nothing to do with the game and in my view weren't correct observations...Chauncey grows from these games too...we're going to see him try things all season that might work and might not sometimes
Late game doesn't mean last play in my view although it's part of the conversation.

Now I'm confused....what did I misquote? I posted why I understood Chauncey's trusting Ant and CJ to take the challenge....and didn't see the last play as a horrible coaching mistake...just a risk that didn't pan out. I'm sure lots of folks agree with you .. in my view....we didn't lose that game last night due to horrible rotations but Minny won by shooting lights out when it counted
Maybe you're referencing me quoting you saying Stotts was a horrible coach at rotations late in a game and you fear Chauncey is trending the same......well....I'll stand by my view about this but don't see a misquote anywhere in the thread...maybe a difference of opinion but misquote? Sorry....don't know where you get that from....at any rate...you're welcome to your view

I never said Stotts was a bad coach. I did reference him to being horrible in similar late game situations where he had left poor defenders in when much better ones were available. That is obviously referring to a very specific situation at the end of a game. And I reference this once already about being misquoted.

I also didn't contend that we lost the game last night due to horrible rotations. It was merely a question as to why we don't put in our best defenders on a final defensive possession.....like we put in our best offensive players for a final offensive possession. We are all welcome to our view, but let's at least stick to what was actual said and discussed. Fair?

 

[Predator]

Subtle tanking!

 

[Orion Bailey]

what? Tpup and I can have this discussion without whatever you think I posted wrong was....why not just offer your own opinion about it.....I'm quoting Tpup here and it's civil....he doesn't need to be apologized to for my opinions.....nor do I need for him to agree with me....you think I'm wrong...feel free to say why but don't mediate or call for people to apologize for opinions you might not agree with....I don't agree with Tpup but I don't think he needs to apologize for his takes....I enjoy his content....try that sometimes.....stick to the topic and please refrain from playing forum ref..it's just disrespectful....I respect Tpup's basketball IQ...he's brighter than I am no doubt but we don't agree about everything around here nor get into pissing contests about it

okay..

Credibility and ownership are a part of life… and this forum. But carry on….

 

[Orion Bailey]

huh? I own my own opinions....that's part of life....questioning my credibility is your fishing pole ....I don't question Tpups so why are you questioning mine? On second thought....never mind. I'm done here...carry on.

lol. Hey some people can just say oops and some cant. I get it.
I understand now “ i was wrong” is not part of your vocab.
All good. You are entitled and have the right to react however you like.
But then theres that cred….

anyhow like i said. Carry on. Aint no thing…

 

[Natebishop3]

Why are you trying to ruin our beautiful tanking?