"Lefty" Bitching About Taxes

[magnifier661]

I'm pretty sure that if the guy earns money in the US, he pays US taxes on it. Even if he's not a US citizen.

Price of doing business here.

At what rate? I don't think it's fair that a foreigner wouldn't be privy to the write offs associated with bring a citizen of the United States. And if its true; then why not move to Nevada and pay zero state taxes? That saves him 15% of his earnings.

 

[Denny Crane]

At what rate? I don't think it's fair that a foreigner wouldn't be privy to the write offs associated with bring a citizen of the United States. And if its true; then why not move to Nevada and pay zero state taxes? That saves him 15% of his earnings.

If he makes $100K for a tourney in California, he pays California state tax on that income. He'd save money on his endorsement income by moving, though.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/12/sports/sp-jock-tax12

More on state taxes athletes pay at the link.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

At what rate? I don't think it's fair that a foreigner wouldn't be privy to the write offs associated with bring a citizen of the United States. And if its true; then why not move to Nevada and pay zero state taxes? That saves him 15% of his earnings.

It's true. Having worked in public accounting for nearly a decade, I dealt with several clients that were nonresident aliens (you can look up "taxation of nonresident aliens" through the IRS website if you want to get into the nitty-gritties). They pay US taxes, and several potential deductions that US citizens are able to take are not available to nonresident aliens. So, a nonresident alien often pays more in taxes on their US earnings than a US citizen would.

Which is why I earlier stated it makes little sense for Lefty (and other wealthy millionaires/billionaires) to leave the country in the name of taxes.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's true. Having worked in public accounting for nearly a decade, I dealt with several clients that were nonresident aliens (you can look up "taxation of nonresident aliens" through the IRS website if you want to get into the nitty-gritties). They pay US taxes, and several potential deductions that US citizens are able to take are not available to nonresident aliens. So, a nonresident alien often pays more in taxes on their US earnings than a US citizen would.

Which is why I earlier stated it makes little sense for Lefty (and other wealthy millionaires/billionaires) to leave the country in the name of taxes.

It makes sense if he could claim his endorsement income out of the country and he pays way less than the 43% in federal taxes he'd pay here.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

It makes sense if he could claim his endorsement income out of the country and he pays way less than the 43% in federal taxes he'd pay here.

I'd be curious how the IRS would view his endorsement income. I mean, if an endorsing company is solely based in the US (or if the company makes the majority of profits in the US), I could see the IRS including that as US income. Or at least fighting it. Or the IRS could make a determination based on how much of Lefty's play is in the US and fight based on that.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

It makes sense if he could claim his endorsement income out of the country and he pays way less than the 43% in federal taxes he'd pay here.

The question I've asked a few times, and I don't believe I've yet seen answered: where would he go live that would provide favorable interest rates, and still provide the things he needs, including security/safety, health care, etc?

Given Lefty's argument for moving, I'd suspect the IRS would keep tabs as to how many days he spent in the US (as this would impact his filing status).

 

[Denny Crane]

Bermuda? Caman Islands?

 

[Denny Crane]

It seems Bermuda's top tax rate is 14%. If Lefty makes $50M in endorsements, he'd pay a whopping $15M less taxes there.

He could maintain a residence in the US, but he'd pay US income tax if he spends 183 days in the states AND there's no tax treaty that covers him (between the USA and Bermuda).

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

It seems Bermuda's top tax rate is 14%. If Lefty makes $50M in endorsements, he'd pay a whopping $15M less taxes there.

He could maintain a residence in the US, but he'd pay US income tax if he spends 183 days in the states AND there's no tax treaty that covers him (between the USA and Bermuda).

The cost of travel, access to necessary needs, etc, would add up. Can he save money? Yes, but it seems like a lot of hassle. And the IRS would chase that cash, especially in something so public. If they allow Lefty to get away, it becomes a serious issue, so they will attempt to set a precedent immediately. And I think they have a lot going in their favor.

The 183 days rule applies for a year, but there are further rules that come into play (eventually, 183 days total over 3 years comes into play - not in public accounting so I'm not 100% up on this, but I know with my boss, we have to make sure he doesn't spend more than 60 days/ year in the US).

 

[STOMP]

omg!!! how will I ever cope with the obstacles that the Micklesons face? And if he's forced to pretend to move out of California to one of his other homes/tax shelters so as to funnel the cash being generated by him hitting a ball, I'm going to be so outraged.

link to another recent bitch that indicates what a stupid douchebag he is

STOMP

 

[Denny Crane]

There are 36 PGA tournaments a year. I'm not sure if all are in the USA. He could be there for five days each tournament and be in the USA for 180 days, just shy of the 183 for a year. He might be able to practice enough if he spends four days per tournament at the course in question.

The 183 day rule does apply over 3 years. However, they count 1/3 of the previous year and 1/6th of the year before that. So 120 days a year for 3 years would be 120 + 40 + 20 = 180 days for tax purposes.

If we are satisfied to call all the rich people stupid douchebags as they take their money and leave the country, what kind of country will we have left?

 

[STOMP]

If we are satisfied to call all the rich people stupid douchebags as they take their money and leave the country, what kind of country will we have left?

way to miss the point as usual... you've a real talent for that. Being rich isn't why he's a stupid douchebag... Americans generally greatly admire the rich and I'm certainly not labeling all of them this. I'm calling one particular out of touch idiot a stupid douchebag for publicly bitching about the public and his lot in life when it's the adoring public that gives him this life via endorsements. If he quietly decides moving to Florida (or elsewhere) for financial reasons makes sense, he'll be like so many other pro athletes who none of us are calling names.

STOMP

 

[magnifier661]

The question I've asked a few times, and I don't believe I've yet seen answered: where would he go live that would provide favorable interest rates, and still provide the things he needs, including security/safety, health care, etc?

Given Lefty's argument for moving, I'd suspect the IRS would keep tabs as to how many days he spent in the US (as this would impact his filing status).

Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland, and Burma.

 

[Denny Crane]

225,000 californians leave the state per year over taxes. Companies are setting up shop in states with more favorable tax treatment. The four most common moves, according to the census, were to Texas, Arizona, Washington, and Nevada. All but Arizona have no state income tax, and Arizona's top rate is 4.54% (1/3 California's) on income more than $300K.

Hollywood used to be the entertainment capital of the world. This year, just two of the twenty three new one-hour TV dramas were shot in LA, which in turn hurts all the related businesses.

How awesome that they kept their mouths shut so people wouldn't think they're douchebags!

As for complaining about the tax burden, it's a free country with free speech. When a tyrannical majority makes him bend over and spread his ass cheeks to take a big financial hit overnight (and retroactive to last year in California), he has every right to voice his complaint.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland, and Burma.

I'd be curious as to the cost of living in those places. Switzerland's cost of living is pretty high.

And with kids....... I can't really imagine him wanting to raise his kids in these countries. Don't get me wrong, it could be a rather cool adventure, but I don't see him doing that to his family. Sure, there are ways around it (letting someone else have legal responsibility to the children so they can stay in the US). But the intracacies of the matters and issues related to this get very complicated, there are a lot of gray areas in this, and given the publicity he brough himself by opening his mouth, he would be more heavily scrutinized to make sure he is following everything to a "t". And like I said, I'm sure the IRS will find a way to substantially tax his earnings in the US. His best move, I suppose, would simply move to another state, which some of you suggest he do. I wouldn't want to live in any of those lower-tax-rate states over SoCal, but I suppose the cost of saving money is living in a place that he perhaps finds less desirable. People make the decision to live someone less desirable in the same of saving money everyday.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

225,000 californians leave the state per year over taxes. Companies are setting up shop in states with more favorable tax treatment. The four most common moves, according to the census, were to Texas, Arizona, Washington, and Nevada. All but Arizona have no state income tax, and Arizona's top rate is 4.54% (1/3 California's) on income more than $300K.

Hollywood used to be the entertainment capital of the world. This year, just two of the twenty three new one-hour TV dramas were shot in LA, which in turn hurts all the related businesses.

How awesome that they kept their mouths shut so people wouldn't think they're douchebags!

As for complaining about the tax burden, it's a free country with free speech. When a tyrannical majority makes him bend over and spread his ass cheeks to take a big financial hit overnight (and retroactive to last year in California), he has every right to voice his complaint.

I don't think he's a douchebag for opening his mouth. I just think he should have been wiser about it. That's all.

I don't disagree with anything he said. I just think he should be aware of how everything and anything athletes and celebs say in the media can be blown up into something much bigger, and it always ends in the athlete/celeb having to offer an apology. I mean, this day in age, everybody is a celeb for two minutes (whether through something they did or posted through social media, whatever). Hell, we have people like the Kardashians as celebs. So I just think high-profile individuals need to have a little common sense, because whether their intentions were good or bad or right or wrong is irrelevant. The words will be twisted, and people will find a way to be outraged.

As for the US being a country of "free speech".... well duh. But as they taught me in history/government classes, we do have free speech, but we also have consequences for our free speech. It's sad it's come to this, but people often pay for their honesty in today's media-crazed world. The bigger the platform, the more likely someone is going to be offended.

 

[Denny Crane]

I think he's doing the public discourse a favor. We hear Warren Buffett because he says "tax me more." Though he really doesn't want to be taxed more. We don't hear the guys who bear the brunt of the tax hikes. If they're moving to states with no or lesser state taxes, that should be a wakeup call to the state govt. of the state he's leaving. I think it's better for California to collect his taxes at 10% than to raise his taxes to 13% and collect $0.

I also think it's BS that he is somehow getting paid a lot of money to just play golf. Every PGA golfer I've met works more than 40 hours a week weightlifting and other tedious and painful physical exercises. I'm not talking about just the top 200 PGA players - there are tens of thousands of them who aren't on the tour.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I think he's doing the public discourse a favor. We hear Warren Buffett because he says "tax me more." Though he really doesn't want to be taxed more. We don't hear the guys who bear the brunt of the tax hikes. If they're moving to states with no or lesser state taxes, that should be a wakeup call to the state govt. of the state he's leaving. I think it's better for California to collect his taxes at 10% than to raise his taxes to 13% and collect $0.

I also think it's BS that he is somehow getting paid a lot of money to just play golf. Every PGA golfer I've met works more than 40 hours a week weightlifting and other tedious and painful physical exercises. I'm not talking about just the top 200 PGA players - there are tens of thousands of them who aren't on the tour.

I don't deny that he's doing the public a favor in some sense. I had that thought initially when I heard the outrage. But that doesn't make me feel any different in terms of he's an idiot for opening his mouth. You know the people that agree will quietly nod their heads. And the masses that disagree will riot. It just happens to be the way it works these days, so I still believe he's an idiot for not knowing how people would respond.

You, Sir, have apparently never met Craig Stadler.

 

[Denny Crane]

I haven't met anyone on tour. I have met guys who've played in various state Opens. Guys with -2 handicaps, PGA card, work at golf courses.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

The Stadler comment was a joke.

 

[blazerboy30]

You or I saying "pay 62% in taxes and are considering moving out of state" would not cause any outrage.

It shouldn't cause any outrage regardless of who's saying it. The people that are seemingly outraged are the ones the voted to invoke those 62% rates. They should be prepared and expected to handle any repercussions from their votes.

 

[Denny Crane]

FWIW, they had this TV show on ABC back in the 1970s. I forget its name...

Anyhow, they had athletes from various sports compete against one another to see who was the better athlete. Boxers, race car drivers, golfers, basketball players, football players, baseball players, etc., all competed. The skills tests were designed to not particularly favor any one sport (like throwing footballs). They did have weight lifting and that sort of thing.

I remember the race car drivers and golfers placed extremely well, if not won much of the time. You'd think a football player who runs thousands of yards without breaking a sweat and who are 300 lbs. of muscle would be the best, and that the race car drivers would be wimps. Not so.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

It shouldn't cause any outrage regardless of who's saying it. The people that are seemingly outraged are the ones the voted to invoke those 62% rates. They should be prepared and expected to handle any repercussions from their votes.

The outrage isn't about the percentage increase, it is about Phil bitching and publically saying he is gong to move because of it.

And regardless of bitching about it, all Americans should be prepared and expected to handle whatever "repercussions" happen because Obama is president. That is how democracy works.

 

[blazerboy30]

The outrage isn't about the percentage increase, it is about Phil bitching and publically saying he is gong to move because of it.

Yes, I understand that is where the "outrage" is coming from, and it is ridiculous. Did the those who voted to make other people pay more really think those "other people" wouldn't mind at all or take any possible actions to reduce their losses?

And regardless of bitching about it, all Americans should be prepared and expected to handle whatever "repercussions" happen because Obama is president. That is how democracy works.

This is so incredibly far from the truth. Why should people of a democracy be expected not to "bitch" and try to take legal action against government policy they don't like? That is the complete opposite of a free democracy.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Yes, I understand that is where the "outrage" is coming from, and it is ridiculous. Did the those who voted to make other people pay more really think those "other people" wouldn't mind at all or take any possible actions to reduce their losses?




This is so incredibly far from the truth. Why should people of a democracy be expected not to "bitch" and try to take legal action against government policy they don't like? That is the complete opposite of a free democracy.

I didn't say that people shouldn't bitch, just the opposite. Whatever floats their boat. But if you live in the US, one should start accepting the fact Obama is president. If people want to move, then they should move. But after moving and after tax shelters and after hiding money, they should pay the taxes set out by gov't or get the fuck out of the country.

Again, people can cry all they want to about Obama, I just hope they understand that he is the elected president in a fair election. It not like Obama is dong anything illegal. This is how the system works . . . many big business type seem to be either in denial or in major bitch mode these days.

 

[Denny Crane]

He should join a union. Maybe Obama would give him a car company for nothing.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

He should join a union. Maybe Obama would give him a car company for nothing.

Yes, Phil should join a union . . . he needs the protection from all those who have exploited him.

Although I don't know many union people who get a company car . . . that is more for the people who get 6 to 7 figure bonuses (and bitch about taxes).

 

[Masbee]

Except this country was founded as a republic.

Democracy is for tyranny.

 

[Masbee]

I didn't say that people shouldn't bitch, just the opposite. Whatever floats their boat. But if you live in the US, one should start accepting the fact Obama is president. If people want to move, then they should move. But after moving and after tax shelters and after hiding money, they should pay the taxes set out by gov't or get the fuck out of the country.

Again, people can cry all they want to about Obama, I just hope they understand that he is the elected president in a fair election. It not like Obama is dong anything illegal. This is how the system works . . . many big business type seem to be either in denial or in major bitch mode these days.

Angry much?

And I disagree. The bitching is suprisingly muted. Look to Egypt right now for real bitching.