Legit game changers to put Portland into contention (1 Viewer)

[Pinwheel1]

Yeah, he's not getting the max.

Yeah he is not worth the max. But I can see his point. Who played better for the Cavs last year when healthy? PF Kevin Love who is getting the max, or PF Tristan Thompson who is not?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I know that the OP doesn't care about realistic scenarios, but to me there needs to be SOME ray of hope or it's a useless exercise. Under no circumstances does LBJ walk through that door.

The completely-unrealistic-but-could-actually-happen scenario is well known:
Trade for Boogie. With Boogie and Dame in place, we get on Durant's radar, who promptly signs with us.

 

[magnifier661]

The thing is, I'm fine with the Boogie plan failing. If 2 years from now, he doesn't pan out you trade him during his final year for picks. You hardcore tank the next year, get a #1 pick, and hopefully whatever you kept keeps developing. You can use your top 3 pick in a package for whatever allstar is on the market then, and give free agency another go. If you don't trade him you have a great young piece who should be on a higher level than CJ, Meyers and Vonleh are now. You then use cap space for young guys or lopsided trades.

Also, if we get Boogie, we'd just need him to not go downhill and we'd be in good shape. I think he'd be fine in a better culture and organization. And we wouldn't need to add a star free agent. We could surround him with solid vets whow fit well, like we had last year, but we'd also have enough cap to build a top 10 bench. Then the cap goes up from around $90M to $10M, and depending on the extensions of big men we have, we could have $10M in cap to add to that group, or at the very least, our MLE and Bi-Annual Exceptions.

Keeping on this track likely puts us in the place no one wants to be down the road.... a fringe playoff team. It's hard to get out because either you get lucky or, most likely, you get bad again to try to reload again. Thing is this reload would be further down the road, and we might not have enough time left in Lillard's prime for that.

How many posters in here do you think actually don't want Boogie? I'm just disagreeing with giving the farm for him

 

[magnifier661]

I know that the OP doesn't care about realistic scenarios, but to me there needs to be SOME ray of hope or it's a useless exercise. Under no circumstances does LBJ walk through that door.

The completely-unrealistic-but-could-actually-happen scenario is well known:
Trade for Boogie. With Boogie and Dame in place, we get on Durant's radar, who promptly signs with us.

The OP (me), is giving an example of players you would trade the farm for. Most likely all of them could not be traded for, which is why any team would trade the farm for them.

Trading the farm for a player like Boogie is a huge gamble because he's not at the level of players like LBJ, Durant, CP3, Curry, etc.

 

[Reep]

If you could get Cousins without completely giving up the farm, then it could certainly help in landing or developing a final piece.

If you were really getting Cousins, I guess you could give up a combination of CJ, Leonard, Plumlee, Vonleh, and this year's pick. It would be nice to keep either Leonard or Vonleh to play next to him though.

 

[magnifier661]

If you could get Cousins without completely giving up the farm, then it could certainly help in landing or developing a final piece.

If you were really getting Cousins, I guess you could give up a combination of CJ, Leonard, Plumlee, Vonleh, and this year's pick. It would be nice to keep either Leonard or Vonleh to play next to him though.

That's the point I'm trying to make. If it requires CJ, Leonard, Plume, Vonleh and the first rounder, then I think it's a huge mistake. IF Boogie is available, then he created such discord to the Kings's franchise, that he's at "Fire Sale" level. That means teams can get him at a discount. If it requires all those players you mentioned, then he's realistically not available.

 

[Reep]

That's the point I'm trying to make. If it requires CJ, Leonard, Plume, Vonleh and the first rounder, then I think it's a huge mistake. IF Boogie is available, then he created such discord to the Kings's franchise, that he's at "Fire Sale" level. That means teams can get him at a discount. If it requires all those players you mentioned, then he's realistically not available.

I was typing the same time you were, and came up with a similar conclusion. I think it would certainly be worth trading the pick, Vonleh (although I like him) and CJ (I like him too). That would still leave you with a lot of talent left to develop, but a very strong starting core. I may have rose colored glasses on, but I think that might be interesting to the Kings unless they really want to win now (three lottery picks).

Dame/Frazier/Pressey
Henderson/Crabbe
Aminu/Harkless
Leonard/Davis/Alexander
Cousins/Plumlee/Kaman

That looks like a nicely balanced team.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The OP (me), is giving an example of players you would trade the farm for. Most likely all of them could not be traded for, which is why any team would trade the farm for them.

Trading the farm for a player like Boogie is a huge gamble because he's not at the level of players like LBJ, Durant, CP3, Curry, etc.

IDK,
Dame/Crabbe/Aminu/Davis/Boogie
with Hendo/Harkless coming off the bench looks very good to me.

 

[BigGameDamian]

IDK,
Dame/Crabbe/Aminu/Davis/Boogie
with Hendo/Harkless coming off the bench looks very good to me.

That would be called a good gamble that's never going to happen.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

That would be called a good gamble that's never going to happen.

That being said, that is what "trading the farm" for Boogie looks like.

 

[magnifier661]

I was typing the same time you were, and came up with a similar conclusion. I think it would certainly be worth trading the pick, Vonleh (although I like him) and CJ (I like him too). That would still leave you with a lot of talent left to develop, but a very strong starting core. I may have rose colored glasses on, but I think that might be interesting to the Kings unless they really want to win now (three lottery picks).

Dame/Frazier/Pressey
Henderson/Crabbe
Aminu/Harkless
Leonard/Davis/Alexander
Cousins/Plumlee/Kaman

That looks like a nicely balanced team.

Definitely able to get behind that

 

[magnifier661]

That being said, that is what "trading the farm" for Boogie looks like.

Vonleh, CJ, Leonard, Plumlee and our first rounder

 

[blue9]

That's the point I'm trying to make. If it requires CJ, Leonard, Plume, Vonleh and the first rounder, then I think it's a huge mistake. IF Boogie is available, then he created such discord to the Kings's franchise, that he's at "Fire Sale" level. That means teams can get him at a discount. If it requires all those players you mentioned, then he's realistically not available.

Who woulda thought that Mags of all people would be the one that has a firm grasp on the situation!?!
(Just ribbin' ya!)

 

[magnifier661]

Who woulda thought that Mags of all people would be the one that has a firm grasp on the situation!?!
(Just ribbin' ya!)

Hahaha touché

 

[BonesJones]

The OP (me), is giving an example of players you would trade the farm for. Most likely all of them could not be traded for, which is why any team would trade the farm for them.

Trading the farm for a player like Boogie is a huge gamble because he's not at the level of players like LBJ, Durant, CP3, Curry, etc.

That's the thing though. Players on that level are untouchable.

 

[magnifier661]

That's the thing though. Players on that level are untouchable.

Which is why u bet the farm on them. You don't with a player like Boogie

 

[BonesJones]

Which is why u bet the farm on them. You don't with a player like Boogie

you don't get it. Our farm is being overvalued. And you can't bet on someone when the other team would never move him. The fact that youre bringing up those guys names saying we should bet the farm on them makes you seem a little delusional.

 

[magnifier661]

you don't get it. Our farm is being overvalued. And you can't bet on someone when the other team would never move him. The fact that youre bringing up those guys names saying we should bet the farm on them makes you seem a little delusional.

Our farm is not over valued.

All the players you mentioned were lotto picks and you are even willing to trade our next lotto pick too! Lol. But you trade em like they are 35 year old role players. I think you way overvalue Boogie and it's not even close

 

[BonesJones]

Our farm is not over valued.

All the players you mentioned were lotto picks and you are even willing to trade our next lotto pick too! Lol. But you trade em like they are 35 year old role players. I think you way overvalue Boogie and it's not even close

Sorry dude. I guess the best NBA center isnt worth a bunch of could-bes.

I feel like, if someone presented you with this option before they acquired these players, you would've taken Boogie.

It's just like how everyone hated the Batum trade at first, but then everyone drank the Vonleh coolaid and all of a sudden, they're sure that he will become an all star.

 

[Reep]

Reasons you don't trade the farm for Boogie:
1) he has been a bit of a head case (more than a bit at times); and
2) Kings have not won 30 or more games since he has been on the team.

I would trade a lot of value for him, but there is a big risk if you trade away too much talent you could end up becoming the Kings.

 

[BonesJones]

Reasons you don't trade the farm for Boogie:
1) he has been a bit of a head case (more than a bit at times); and
2) Kings have not won 30 or more games since he has been on the team.

I would trade a lot of value for him, but there is a big risk if you trade away too much talent you could end up becoming the Kings.

he's still coming into his own. Point #2 is like using the fact that Lillard's never "led" a team anywhere to belittle him.

 

[Reep]

he's still coming into his own. Point #2 is like using the fact that Lillard's never "led" a team anywhere to belittle him.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea and would probably trade 3 valuable pieces. You just have to consider that a guy that beastly was part of teams that had a worse record than the Blazers may have next year. If he is that transcendent piece, then why didn't they win more. I'm willing to bet a lot of young talent on that--just not all of our young talent on that.

 

[Draco]

The thing is, I'm fine with the Boogie plan failing. If 2 years from now, he doesn't pan out you trade him during his final year for picks. You hardcore tank the next year, get a #1 pick, and hopefully whatever you kept keeps developing. You can use your top 3 pick in a package for whatever allstar is on the market then, and give free agency another go. If you don't trade him you have a great young piece who should be on a higher level than CJ, Meyers and Vonleh are now. You then use cap space for young guys or lopsided trades.

Also, if we get Boogie, we'd just need him to not go downhill and we'd be in good shape. I think he'd be fine in a better culture and organization. And we wouldn't need to add a star free agent. We could surround him with solid vets whow fit well, like we had last year, but we'd also have enough cap to build a top 10 bench. Then the cap goes up from around $90M to $10M, and depending on the extensions of big men we have, we could have $10M in cap to add to that group, or at the very least, our MLE and Bi-Annual Exceptions.

Keeping on this track likely puts us in the place no one wants to be down the road.... a fringe playoff team. It's hard to get out because either you get lucky or, most likely, you get bad again to try to reload again. Thing is this reload would be further down the road, and we might not have enough time left in Lillard's prime for that.

The Blazers can go sign free agents in the next two summers right now. They don't need to make any trade to do that. It odd how you talk about signing free agents if we have Boogie here as if its only possible with him here. If he's not on the roster with his max contract we'll have even more money to use in free agency.

If you had the power to implement your plan and it fails Boogie would have less value now than in 2 years. You've paid for a stock when it was high, gave up a bunch of interesting stock options to make the trade, and now have to scramble to sell it when its worth less. Thats a horrible plan. Although as you say your fine with your plan failing. If you think your plan works when it fails I'm not sure what to tell you. To a casual observe it appears to be delusional ramblings.

I would trade a lot of value for him, but there is a big risk if you trade away too much talent you could end up becoming the Kings.

Yup. I'm all for bringing in Cousins or any allstar but it needs to be the move that makes us a solid playoff team. Trading all of our "could be" players for Cousins leaves us with a two man team of fringe allstars and that's not winning anything. Maybe if they were perennial MVP candidates its one thing. But neither Dame nor Cousins is at that level. Cousins is going to want to come to to a situation where he is winning immediately. If we remove most of the best players from a bottom tier western Blazer team even a huge upgrade at one position won't help.

 

[magnifier661]

Sorry dude. I guess the best NBA center isnt worth a bunch of could-bes.

I feel like, if someone presented you with this option before they acquired these players, you would've taken Boogie.

It's just like how everyone hated the Batum trade at first, but then everyone drank the Vonleh coolaid and all of a sudden, they're sure that he will become an all star.

No problem. Just don't let it happen again

 

[Wizard Mentor]

There are several nonbasketball reasons to bring Boogie to PDX, not the least of which is that he's locked into a contract for several more years, and he would look forward to playing for us.

 

[magnifier661]

Here's what I would do to summarize. Trade CJ, Plumlee and fraizer. They can choose between Vonleh or Leonard as the 4th player (I would rather have Vonleh). No draft picks unless they are the 2nd rounders.

A trio of Dame, Boogie and Vonleh would be sick. I think that core could entice a legit free agent next summer.

 

[BonesJones]

The Blazers can go sign free agents in the next two summers right now. They don't need to make any trade to do that. It odd how you talk about signing free agents if we have Boogie here as if its only possible with him here. If he's not on the roster with his max contract we'll have even more money to use in free agency.

If you had the power to implement your plan and it fails Boogie would have less value now than in 2 years. You've paid for a stock when it was high, gave up a bunch of interesting stock options to make the trade, and now have to scramble to sell it when its worth less. Thats a horrible plan. Although as you say your fine with your plan failing. If you think your plan works when it fails I'm not sure what to tell you. To a casual observe it appears to be delusional ramblings.

That whole first paragraph is wrong
1.) We don't have the type of talent to attract good free agents right now. Getting a 2nd all star helps with that.
2.) He doesn't have a "max" contract. He's only making $15M next year, which is a bargain for someone of his talent
3.) I suggest trading Davis or Aminu with whatever package we send out. That $8M plus whoever leaves will be around what DMC is making. So no we wouldn't have more cap for free agents by keeping it the way it is, but keeping it the way it is makes cap space pointless.


As for your 2nd paragraph, we have no clue if DMCs stock will continue rise or not. But since he's 25 years old, I think that coupled with playing with Dame will make him even better.
In the event that doesn't pan out, you'd still be able to get a couple firsts for him, you'd have tons of cap space + extra assets in the way of picks, and you could also tank a year to get a top pick to trade for a star or pair with a 27 or 28 year old Dame, who played 4 years in college so should be a younger 28 year old than most.

The backup plan to the "farm system" plan is what exactly?

 

[magnifier661]

That whole first paragraph is wrong
1.) We don't have the type of talent to attract good free agents right now. Getting a 2nd all star helps with that.
2.) He doesn't have a "max" contract. He's only making $15M next year, which is a bargain for someone of his talent
3.) I suggest trading Davis or Aminu with whatever package we send out. That $8M plus whoever leaves will be around what DMC is making. So no we wouldn't have more cap for free agents by keeping it the way it is, but keeping it the way it is makes cap space pointless.


As for your 2nd paragraph, we have no clue if DMCs stock will continue rise or not. But since he's 25 years old, I think that coupled with playing with Dame will make him even better.
In the event that doesn't pan out, you'd still be able to get a couple firsts for him, you'd have tons of cap space + extra assets in the way of picks, and you could also tank a year to get a top pick to trade for a star or pair with a 27 or 28 year old Dame, who played 4 years in college so should be a younger 28 year old than most.

The backup plan to the "farm system" plan is what exactly?

Vonleh actually plays like a lotto pick, Leonard performs like he has the last month of the season, CJ comes in at a Jason Terry 6th man, Plumlee plays defense and rebounds, Davis plays defense and rebounds, Dame becomes a stud, the team actually sniffs the playoffs with a salary that is 15 mil under cap.

 

[riverman]

Sorry dude. I guess the best NBA center isnt worth a bunch of could-bes.

I feel like, if someone presented you with this option before they acquired these players, you would've taken Boogie.

It's just like how everyone hated the Batum trade at first, but then everyone drank the Vonleh coolaid and all of a sudden, they're sure that he will become an all star.

You do realize Cousin has told Karl that he doesn't want to be a center don't you? He wants to play PF now and Karl disagreed with him. I don't think he's the best center in the NBA personally but he's a top level center on a crappy team that needs the ball all the time. I like Boogie's game. I just think he's a very selfish diva...I felt the same way about Shaq..BJ...you've milked this cow dry...give it a rest or just follow the Kings and enjoy the highlight reels. You don't gut the roster for superstars...the Lakers tried that and it doesn't work. Olshey knows more about the guys we have than you'll ever know. You've turned multiple threads into Boogie lobbying. To me, Marc Gasol is the best center in the NBA.

 

[BonesJones]

You do realize Cousin has told Karl that he doesn't want to be a center don't you? He wants to play PF now and Karl disagreed with him. I don't think he's the best center in the NBA personally but he's a top level center on a crappy team that needs the ball all the time. I like Boogie's game. I just think he's a very selfish diva...I felt the same way about Shaq..BJ...you've milked this cow dry...give it a rest or just follow the Kings and enjoy the highlight reels. You don't gut the roster for superstars...the Lakers tried that and it doesn't work. Olshey knows more about the guys we have than you'll ever know. You've turned multiple threads into Boogie lobbying. To me, Marc Gasol is the best center in the NBA.

Actually, I agree Marc is better just because of his defense.

I do like Cousins better as a 4, it's a better fit for him when attacking offensively and defensively. This whole argument is honestly over an extra player and an extra pick in a trade for him and if you'd do it. I would do anything though to pair DMC with Leonard or Vonleh.
You wouldn't have to deem one a center or one a power forward, since all of them are hybrid bigs, and having a big man that can shoot and defend the rim (potentially) next to Cousins would be a match made in heaven.

As for "milking this cow dry", me and MAGS argued in one thread about it. He made this thread in relation to what we talked about. I'm but sure I was the one that even brought up Boogie in this thread, and if I did, so what? You don't have to read... if you don't care just stop reading when you see "Cousins", "DMC", or "Boogie" in the post. It's August, and I enjoy having a debate on a topic where everyone knows what they're talking about and have an articulate take on the matter. So what if I explore every angle of my own opinion?