Let the partial rebuild begin

[kreidertime]

This outcome is not surprising. I was laughing all week hearing fans and hosts on WFAN talk about how the Rangers were the better team. This team defensively has had awful breakdowns for 2 years. Not to mention many high played players that suck. Stepan is easily trade-able given his age and career production. I suspect they will add back a good faceoff center who is much cheaper, and can put up 35-40 points along with some picks. Klein is a guy they can easily move. I also suspect they will move Nash despite the fact he played OK. That would then allow them to protect Fast and Lindberg which is what I believe they will want to do. Both are cheap, show up in the playoffs. As I have said before, Lindberg has a chance to be a 60% guy on draws going forward with 40-45 points. They can't lose him. Staal should be told the following. Drop your NTC or it's the minors. Simple as that. I suspect you could move him for a pick. Teams always look for guys with lots of playoff experiece to add to their team. Rangers have those players. So, I think they trades will be there. Gorton just has to have the balls to do it. They must go very young on defense.


If the kid Pionk they signed is for real I go with this on defense. I go super young. I think Zboroskiy can make the jump. I also am in favor of keeping top prospects away from Gernander who is a moron coaching the pack. There is no possible way they are going anywhere with Holden, Staal, Girardi or Klein. That much is very obvious. Take a year and go through the growing pains.

McDonagh-Zboroskiy
Graves-Skjei
Smith-Pionk

Some of the only excitement I had watching the team this year was watching Skjei develop. I am looking to see that with Graves, Zboroskiy and Pionk as well. I keep Hayes one more year. As bad as he was in the playoffs he was 51% on draws. Like Boyle, it might take him a while to figure it out. Stepan was his usual crap 41% on draws. That assclown should have been moved to wing years ago.

 

[Ranger71]

I agree that watching Skjei, Vesey and even Miller though he had a poor playoffs, all progress well was probably the biggest take going forward. PB to a smaller degree as well, as next year he will be a FT player. In the end i think they finished about where most thought, though certainly it should've probably been in the ECF.
Hayes seemed to regress this year so he needs to figure it out going forward. Lindberg is probably the 2nd best C right now which tells you something about Stepan leveling off some.
The way they work out the defensive corps going into next year is probably the biggest story to watch. Maybe Pionk, Graves or Bereglazov emerge.

 

[RangersFan]

First off the Rangers absolutely were the better team games 1-5. Every stat and number shows that. Means sh*t because the most important number said they were down 3-2. And last night they were flat as a pancake. They played one period last night, and it was almost enough against a team they were better than. Good for Ottawa they deserved to win the series as they played the big series deciding moments way better than the Rangers, but the Rangers were/are the better team.

Second thing is, yes they need to make some move this summer. I start with Staal or Girardi, and then Stepan gone, but I cannot see them being able to move Staal AND Girardi AND Stepan. If Gorton does good for him, but that might be too much to ask.

As for Nash, I have zero issue keeping him unless we get a big offer. To me we don't lose him for nothing next summer, we get a HUGE 7.8 mill cap space bump. That cannot be underestimated. And if worst case we fall out of it next season, we can easily flip Nash at the DL for picks.

I'd also be shocked if they go that young on D. Graves on the 3rd pair should happen. McDonagh, Skjei, and Smith or Shatty should happen. But I think one of Staal or Girardi will be on the 3rd pair as well. And we'll see about the 6th.

I really don't think we are far off with the right moves this summer. This was supposed to be a transition year, finish it off this summer. To me starts with Stepan needs to be gone, and Staal OR Girardi need to be gone. Then go from there.

 

[Ranger71]

If Gorton can get rid of Staal or Girardi that in itself is a major accomplishment. May take eating a little salary plus a decent pick or prospect but it's going to take some work for him to get done. Both have NMC so i don't know how they deal with that. So dumb in the first place but that's neither here nor there at this point. I think he'll explore moving Stepan but i think he's here at least one more year. Nash will finish out his deal here too unless they're out of it as Chuck said which is unlikely. It'll be interesting to see who we lose in expansion. My guess is Grabner which might be best case though we'd miss his speed. Raanta going might be livable though he's a great backup.

 

[RangersFan]

The time to deal Stepan is now. Why would you wait one more year for his NTC to kick in? To me that is the easiest of the moves. He has value as a 50 point C. He needs to be the low hanging fruit Gorton starts with. I will be very disappointed if he is here next season.

Then step two is moving Staal or Girardi. Have to find a way Gorton. Like I said, deal a solid pick and prospect with Girardi to get it done. We have seen it happen before in the NHL. I would do it for sure. The buyout is like a poison pill. Not appealing.

Things can be done here. Gorton needs to get it done. Last summer was reshape. This summer needs to be 2 bigger moves to start.

Good article by Brooks:

And as this 22nd straight season without a Stanley Cup championship ends, this least defensible playoff series defeat of the Henrik Lundqvist Era all but certainly will mark the end of the core group featuring the King, Dan Girardi, Marc Staal, Ryan McDonagh, Derek Stepan that has been intact since midway through 2010-11 and was augmented by Chris Kreider, Rick Nash and Mats Zuccarello by 2012-13.

Changes will be made.

http://nypost.com/2017/05/09/rangers-will-make-big-changes-after-season-ending-crusher/


BTW...nice of Kreider to show up for one period of the whole playoffs.

 

[Ranger71]

That's true with Stepan and the ntc, i forgot about that. Maybe he will make a concerted effort then. Perhaps the Wild would be interested in adding another home state guy. I'm actually hoping Pitt beats Wash so maybe Shatt won't be lured to stay as easily as if they win the SC. Plus i kind of want to keep the Caps from ever winning with that group.

 

[RangersFan]

I agree on the Caps/Shatt situation. I find it hard to believe the Caps lose game 7 at home in a series they have controlled for the most part, but anything can happen as they choke often. Plus with Crosby and Malkin on the other side, never say never.

If the Caps win though they'll win the cup I think. They are the best team. They'll destroy Ottawa in 5 games. And beat the West team also. This is their SC hurdle.

 

[kreidertime]

There is no need to sign Shattenkirk with his big contract when Skjei offensively has turned into much more than we ever thought. No need at all. Graves has a 103 mph bomb from the point. Also, the kid Pionk who they signed and was in high demand has offensive skills. Even Zboroskiy has some offensive game. This is the direction we need to go. This team needs Smith much more than Shattenkirk. The time to go super young on defense is now when you can pair three rookies with McDonagh, Skjei and Smith to help develop them. Skjei plays like a vet.

As usual, we will have our usual moron fans who think all our players who make over 2 million suck and can't be traded. Like I said. The amount of morons in the NHL making over 5 million a season who suck compared to Nash, Stepan and Staal is mind boggling. I've said forever that coaches and GM's don't think like close minded fans. They believe players will fit their system and play a ton better. Or their team is using a player who flat out stinks and they need a replacement for him. Stepan and Nash should be quite easy to deal. One has one year on his contract. The other is a good player who is young. I just think it is time for this team to move on from them. Same with Staal. I don't know if there will be a team for Girardi. He played OK this year. They might have to buy him out. Klein should be easily tradeable.

 

[RangersFan]

I believe it is Smith or Shatt, and I am fine with that either way.

I also simply do not believe BOTH Staal and Girardi will be gone. We'll see about that. I could be wrong, but right now in my head I would be happy with one of the two gone.

And we agree on Stepan. I think he must be moved this offseason. He has value, move him Gorton before the NTC kicks in.

As for Nash, if they could get very good value, I am on board. If not I am also 100% fine with keeping him and dealing him at the trade DL if we struggle, or more likely letting him walk opening up a huge cap number (that is huge value). The Rangers will use that money to add a very good player.

 

[RangersFan]

BTW...go look at the Girardi buyout #'s I posted last week...it is not pretty. 6 years of cap hit. Save 2.8 next year. 1.8 the following two years. Then we have 1.1 mill hitting the cap for three more years after his deal would be up. Really not appealing at all for a team that goes up to the cap. Not a gigantic savings the next 3 years either.

I hope Gorton can somehow find a way to deal him and eat nothing or very little for the remaining 3 years of his deal. Maybe with a pick as a sweetener.

 

[kreidertime]

Absolutely no trading of any pick. Only acquiring of picks.

 

[NYR2009]

If are talking between Staal and Girardi, it should be Staal. Girardi played okay these playoffs on the top pairing. Steal was horrific on the second and third paring. Girardi showed some toughness and I will be okay with him for the next 3 years.

 

[mrmel29]

Girardi needs to retire so he can walk without a limp later in life

 

[NYR2009]

The question is if AV lost the room. If he did then AV is out. Lundqvist was unhappy with Torts and I have a feeling he is not happy with AV's stupid system. So, if Rangers still want Lundqvist then they will fire AV.

Second, Stepan cannot remain on this team. The faceoffs were a huge issue last year and Rangers did nothing to address it. What do you expect? We can't have Stepan as a #1 center on faceoffs. He is very tradable.

Hayes - I am done with him. He is dumb. When he is in a position to shoot he passes when he is in a position to pass he shoots right into the legs of the defense.

Plus I think Valiquete is right. They don't have SC centers and they do not have two shutdown defensmen. And that is why this 6:5 has been an issue for the past two years.

I don't see how they can keep either the same personel and/or AV. Something has to change drastically.

On the positive side, we had some great signings in the past few months. Few of the guys were desired by many other teams. With the latest signings the future is bright for this club.

 

[Messiah717]

The question is if AV lost the room. If he did then AV is out. Lundqvist was unhappy with Torts and I have a feeling he is not happy with AV's stupid system. So, if Rangers still want Lundqvist then they will fire AV.

Second, Stepan cannot remain on this team. The faceoffs were a huge issue last year and Rangers did nothing to address it. What do you expect? We can't have Stepan as a #1 center on faceoffs. He is very tradable.

Hayes - I am done with him. He is dumb. When he is in a position to shoot he passes when he is in a position to pass he shoots right into the legs of the defense.

Plus I think Valiquete is right. They don't have SC centers and they do not have two shutdown defensmen. And that is why this 6:5 has been an issue for the past two years.

I don't see how they can keep either the same personel and/or AV. Something has to change drastically.

On the positive side, we had some great signings in the past few months. Few of the guys were desired by many other teams. With the latest signings the future is bright for this club.

It's like I've been saying. You can fire coaches from now until the cows come home but it will do nothing if you just keep the same core intact. They did their best these handful of years but clearly they're not good enough. You need a true #1 center and you need guys on defense that can move people out of the crease. Not guys who can't win a battle and are falling all over the ice in the last minute of the game.

 

[RangersFan]

Absolutely no trading of any pick. Only acquiring of picks.

Couldn't disagree more on this one. If I had to give Vegas a 3rd or 4th round pick to take Girardi's deal off my hands fully, I would do it in a second. Again...look at the buyout numbers, they really are not that appealing. That should be the absolute last resort with Girardi.

We have youth. We have signed many good college kids. We would use that 5.5 mill of Girardi's to improve the team. That is 100% worth a mid pick. Not a 1st, no way, but a mid pick...yes.

 

[RangersFan]

If are talking between Staal and Girardi, it should be Staal. Girardi played okay these playoffs on the top pairing. Steal was horrific on the second and third paring. Girardi showed some toughness and I will be okay with him for the next 3 years.

You act like you are the only one was saw this. Or it is totally our choice. Staal's deal is longer and for more money. My guess is Girardi is the easier contract to move.

And BTW...I actually think there is a small chance we convince Girardi to retire. Don't think it is impossible it happens.

 

[Messiah717]

Why would he retire?

 

[RangersFan]

He just strikes me as a guy that has played a ton of games, got beaten up for years and focuses on family. Doubt it happens, just saying wouldn't totally shock me.

 

[kreidertime]

Couldn't disagree more on this one. If I had to give Vegas a 3rd or 4th round pick to take Girardi's deal off my hands fully, I would do it in a second. Again...look at the buyout numbers, they really are not that appealing. That should be the absolute last resort with Girardi.

We have youth. We have signed many good college kids. We would use that 5.5 mill of Girardi's to improve the team. That is 100% worth a mid pick. Not a 1st, no way, but a mid pick...yes.

That's because you have no clue how important draft picks are with a top scout like Clark.

Huge parts of our future are the following

Buchnevich-3rd round pick
Zborovskiy-3rd round pick
Day - 3rd round pick
Reaunanen - 4th round pick
Huska - 7th round pick
Wall - 6th round pick
Shesterkin - 4th round pick
Graves - 4th round pick
Fontaine - 6th round pick
Kovacs - 3rd round
Gettinger - 5th round
From that group I expect half of our future starting defense will come, our future number 1 goaltender and probably 2 of our future 12 forwards. You don't keep pissing away picks.

 

[Messiah717]

He just strikes me as a guy that has played a ton of games, got beaten up for years and focuses on family. Doubt it happens, just saying wouldn't totally shock me.

I can think of 13 million reasons it's not happening.

 

[Ranger71]

Dump only so many of these mid-rounders will actually turn into anything, so losing a 3rd to be able to dump off Girardi's boneheaded contract is an easy one. I'd put Gropp and the dmen we've acquired in the last few weeks ahead of some of those guys. Shest will probably be our goalie, Graves and Day/Zborvisky look like NHL dmen but some of the others are crapshoots. Plus with having a 1st this year that's probably another impact person eventually.

 

[RangersFan]

That's because you have no clue how important draft picks are with a top scout like Clark.

Huge parts of our future are the following

Buchnevich-3rd round pick
Zborovskiy-3rd round pick
Day - 3rd round pick
Reaunanen - 4th round pick
Huska - 7th round pick
Wall - 6th round pick
Shesterkin - 4th round pick
Graves - 4th round pick
Fontaine - 6th round pick
Kovacs - 3rd round
Gettinger - 5th round
From that group I expect half of our future starting defense will come, our future number 1 goaltender and probably 2 of our future 12 forwards. You don't keep pissing away picks.

Agreed, and I actually think you are making the exact point of why I would deal a 3rd or 4th round pick to get out of Girardi's contract fully. Clark is a great drafter. We have signed a bunch of good college kids. We have good youth. Getting rid of a terrible 5.5 cap hit fully is HUGE for this team.

We can disagree on this, that is fair. Truth is no clue if what I am suggesting is even possible. But if it was I'd jump on it to clear 5.5 mill for the next 3 years.

 

[RangersFan]

I can think of 13 million reasons it's not happening.

Can't disagree. I just think I could see a guy like him retiring more than some other guys. But of course that money is huge. Maybe he retires and takes a job in the organization in 3 or 4 years...like Drury....

 

[kreidertime]

Dump only so many of these mid-rounders will actually turn into anything, so losing a 3rd to be able to dump off Girardi's boneheaded contract is an easy one. I'd put Gropp and the dmen we've acquired in the last few weeks ahead of some of those guys. Shest will probably be our goalie, Graves and Day/Zborvisky look like NHL dmen but some of the others are crapshoots. Plus with having a 1st this year that's probably another impact person eventually.

You can't give away draft picks. Period, when you have lots of high priced players. The only way this team will be competitive with big salaries they have is to keep getting young guys in there who are cheap. Girardi is not a problem on a buyout. So you take up 2.5 million for 4-6 years. Big deal. You can easily have Graves play at less than that for 3-4 years. It's not a big deal. No reason to give up the pick for a simple buyout. There is safety in numbers with picks and a top scout. More picks Clark has, more young talent he will find. In 3 years, Skjei will be asking for 6.5 million. Zibanejad will ask for 5+. Fast will be asking for 2.5. Lindberg maybe 3. McDonagh for 7. Miller for 5. Hayes if he is here for 5. You have to have young, cheap, guys who can play coming in all the time.

 

[Ranger71]

I agree that a buyout of Girardi isn't a big deal for having a few years of 2.5 and 1.1 on the cap and that's the way they should go. I think unless you offer a 1st or 2nd which i'm not sure i would, that it is going to be really hard to move him.

 

[RangersFan]

We save 2.9, 1.9, 1.9 over the next 3 years. Which means 2.6, 3.6, and 3.6 mill of dead space. And for that you get 3 extra years with a 1.1 cap hit/dead space. Doesn't seem very appealing to me. Two years of 3.6 mill in dead space...yeah we can do better.

 

[Ranger71]

Staal should actually be considering retirement as it seems some of his past issues are limiting his effectiveness.

 

[Messiah717]

It's not a few years. It would be six years of dead cap space. That's insanity.

 

[Ranger71]

Yeah i hear you guys, it's alot, but i just have a hard time seeing a team taking that contract for less than a late 1st.