Letting Robertson go was a good move.

[kreidertime]

He's 29 and the guy constantly has to pitch out of trouble. His ERA is not impressive for a closer. He constantly puts men on base. Rarely has clean saves. When a guy like that loses just a little bit on his stuff he goes from effective to getting lit up. I was shocked all week listening to the radio about the incompetent, stupidity of the talk show hosts on this guy. They made it seem like he's a guy that has clean save after clean save. He isn't. The only reason Robertson has had good numbers is because he is able to strikeout hitters. When your stuff slips, you can't do that as much, you have to pitch. He's not a pitcher. He's a thrower.

 

[yankeesince59]

...lol.

 

[Yankeefan5545]

I'll have to admit to some scary moments last season, still believe that Miller was the best choice of the two at the pricetag. Looking forward to Betances in closing roles.

 

[blgridesagain]

He's 29 and the guy constantly has to pitch out of trouble. His ERA is not impressive for a closer. He constantly puts men on base. Rarely has clean saves. When a guy like that loses just a little bit on his stuff he goes from effective to getting lit up. I was shocked all week listening to the radio about the incompetent, stupidity of the talk show hosts on this guy. They made it seem like he's a guy that has clean save after clean save. He isn't. The only reason Robertson has had good numbers is because he is able to strikeout hitters. When your stuff slips, you can't do that as much, you have to pitch. He's not a pitcher. He's a thrower.

_______________________________

I'll say this much - when Mariano had is mid-90s fastball, he still had excellent command and control of all of his pitches which later on as he got older and lost 3-4 mph on his fastball, enabled him to continue to amaze people with his effectiveness.

If or when Drob loses a MPH or two on his fastball, he BETTER have more control of his fastball.
The more often he'll throw it, the more likely he'll leave it over the heart of the plate.
His curveball is his best pitch.

Mariano was unique - not trying to compare the two- the point is, Drob doesn't have a "blazing" fastball and he DOES have control problems.
He could still be very good if/when he loses something on his fastball- but his control and command of it has to be improved.

 

[Majorball]

He's 29 and the guy constantly has to pitch out of trouble. His ERA is not impressive for a closer. He constantly puts men on base. Rarely has clean saves. When a guy like that loses just a little bit on his stuff he goes from effective to getting lit up. I was shocked all week listening to the radio about the incompetent, stupidity of the talk show hosts on this guy. They made it seem like he's a guy that has clean save after clean save. He isn't. The only reason Robertson has had good numbers is because he is able to strikeout hitters. When your stuff slips, you can't do that as much, you have to pitch. He's not a pitcher. He's a thrower.

I guess I have to disagree with your definition of a clean save. Clean, dirty, anything in between, a save is a save. All teams want a power arm in the 9th because the game is on the line. The ability to miss bats is critical. In the end, I look at save %. If the guy gets the job done at a high level, then the BB's, and hits don't bother me. 1,2,3 innings are great, just not realistic. So Clean save as oppose to a save, no difference.

 

[totus44]

To me a clean save is a 9th where the closer doesn't allow a runner that represents the tieing run into scoring position.

 

[Rick2583]

Coming in with a 3 run lead giving up 2 walks 2 hits & two runs before finally recording the 3rd & final out would be my definition of a NON clean save. Not to mention a damn joke & unfortunately happens two often. BUT...........giving up a walk & then striking out 3 though not a CLEAN save by the OP definition I'll take every time.

 

[blgridesagain]

Drob's WHIP and K-BB numbers as a closer have been just about as good as it ever has been...even better than earlier in his career.
The past two years Drob has been at his best.
He is an absolute K machine - he had his 2nd highest (since 2011) K/9 IP last year...his BB rate did increase last year.

EVERYONE would've loved to see a trio of Betances, Miller and Drob.
It looks as if the Yanks,
A) Were committed to Betances as a closer and didn't want to haggle with Drob over being demoted?
B) Didn't want to pay a set-up guy in Drob closer money
B) Preferred to save 2.250 mil per year with Andrew Miller AND acquire a draft choice at the end of the first round.

all of the above?

 

[totus44]

To me a clean save is a 9th where the closer doesn't allow a runner that represents the tieing run into scoring position.

Ah sorry....1 run lead scenario.

2 or 3 run lead....clean is no runs allowed and potential tieing run isn't allowed on base.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

To me a clean save is a 9th where the closer doesn't allow a runner that represents the tieing run into scoring position.

Ah sorry....1 run lead scenario.

2 or 3 run lead....clean is no runs allowed and potential tieing run isn't allowed on base.

My exact opinion as well. A Closer, ie Fireman, is one who comes in like the Sandman, and simply does what He almost always does all Season Long, that is: Slam the Door on any hitter. No hits, no walks, K after K, or putting the ball into play; where it can be a clean out. Or rather K after K, and a weak infield hit is you want to call it a hit, since said Hitter, would have his bat sawed off at the hands.....

After that type of a real Closer is done with baseball, then a rocking chair is made out of but a few of the bats he sawed off....!!!

From Ryne Duren, moreso Rollie Fingers, through the decades to MO', there have been but a few true Firemen who have come remotely close to Mo's Feats....

Even closers who were often referred to as Dominant Closers in their era's, were really not so dominating, when you look at their ERA's. Tho' using ERA's alone, or Saves, or even IP, is not the entire criteria of infamy....

then lo' and behold we have the God of Closers: MO- (the 1 and only Sandman)... had 11 years with a sub 2.00 ERA out of 19 years playing. Mo' 0.70 in Post Season over 16 Years, in-fkng-credible.....I doubt we will ever see another Mo' in our lifetimes.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Sutter, 2 years out of 12, with a sub 2.00 ERA, also lacks the years, IP, and overall longevity in MLB.

Reardon, 2 complete seasons in 16 years; as a Closer with a sub 2.00 ERA, his rookie year with only 20.2 IP, a 1.74 ERA, I wont count.

Lee Smith, obviously an intimidating Closer, (tho' the same can be said of several others), he had only 2 seasons out of 18 with a sub <2.00 ERA, one year with a 2.06 ERA,

Gossage, why is Goose in the HOF when others with more Saves, and a similar ERA, are not in? Doesn't make sense.
Goose: 4 years with a sub 2.00 ERA in 22 years, one additional year with a 2.01 ERA, still.......?

Eckersley, 2 years with a sub 2.00 ERA in 12 years as a Closer, tho' his 24 years as a SP and RP, are impressive.

Fingers, (tho' he should be given more consideration, as approx. half the games he came into, were 2 inning affairs). Still only 2 years with a sub 2.00 ERA, in 17 years....Rollie averaged double the IP's as other Closers....

T. Hoffman, tho' he had 601 Saves, his lifetime ERA doesn't impress me. NTM-he only had 2 years, out of 18 with a sub <2.00 ERA.

 

[Messiah717]

Drob's WHIP and K-BB numbers as a closer have been just about as good as it ever has been...even better than earlier in his career.
The past two years Drob has been at his best.
He is an absolute K machine - he had his 2nd highest (since 2011) K/9 IP last year...his BB rate did increase last year.

EVERYONE would've loved to see a trio of Betances, Miller and Drob.
It looks as if the Yanks,
A) Were committed to Betances as a closer and didn't want to haggle with Drob over being demoted?
B) Didn't want to pay a set-up guy in Drob closer money
B) Preferred to save 2.250 mil per year with Andrew Miller AND acquire a draft choice at the end of the first round.

all of the above?

If he stayed he was going to be the closer. Again, nobody is going to devalue themselves like that. He was going to be the closer here or sign on elsewhere to be the ninth inning guy. Frankly, in hindsight the Yankees would've been better off trading him last year because we know damn well these draft picks for the Yankees never turn into anything worth a damn.

 

[Yankeefan5545]

Ryne Duren, now there's a name I haven't heard for a while. Coke bottle glasses wearing, flame thrower scared the hell out of me and I was merely watching the game. Can only imagine how those hitter felt in the batters box.

 

[blgridesagain]

Gene Brabender.

 

[bern_baby_bern]

I agree with the OP. The Houdini act is bound to and did catch up to him at times. Combine that with the workload and he's going to decline in the near future. If they could have gotten him for 2 years it's a different story. I personally was never comfortable with Drob coming in even though he did quite well for the most part.

 

[yankeesince59]

...not sure when this decline is supposed to happen but DRob is the same age as (Andrew Miller) and they both got 4 year deals.

...Workload?...These guys only pitch about 60 innings per year so it's not like there's a lot of wear and tear on their arms.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Ryne Duren, now there's a name I haven't heard for a while. Coke bottle glasses wearing, flame thrower scared the hell out of me and I was merely watching the game. Can only imagine how those hitter felt in the batters box.

I bet more than one batter facing Duren, with his wild warm up pitch or 2, probably pissed their pants in the On Deck Circle or Batters box....No kidding, Ryne was incredible, and like you said, an intimidating as they ever came.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

I agree with the OP. The Houdini act is bound to and did catch up to him at times. Combine that with the workload and he's going to decline in the near future. If they could have gotten him for 2 years it's a different story. I personally was never comfortable with Drob coming in even though he did quite well for the most part.

I share the same sentiments. Watching D-Rob often put me on the edge of my chair. Never knowing if he was Hot or Cold. Too often putting the tying or winning run aboard....IMHO....just my 2 cents...!

 

[yankeesince59]

...DRob had fewer blown saves last year than Mo did in his final year.

...he also averaged 13.4 K/9 last year, and his WHIP was still 1.05, and his SO/W ratio was 4.17.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

...DRob had fewer blown saves last year than Mo did in his final year.

...he also averaged 13.4 K/9 last year, and his WHIP was still 1.05, and his SO/W ratio was 4.17.

I'm not saying D-Rob did a bad job at all. Only saying (more or less), after watching Mo' for 20 years, made me anxious to see any other closer. for me it takes time to warm up to any new closer or set up man.....yes, his K/9 was incredible. As much so, as often Koufax or Ryan, but those two are different stories, non-RP's....

Yet, I still got anxious on critical situations, when batters got hits, to put the tying or wining runs on the bases or at bat. Tho' D-Rob indeed, for the Majority of his Games in Relief, often made me want a stiff drink. Not so much due to his performance, moreso, Honestly, due to my own over anxious viewing of the games.

Sure it was nothing like watching Joba, give up critical bombs outing upon outing, while Detroit is bearing that bad news Cornhusker....Not comparing the 2 either, just saying, any not yet established in concrete as the reliable one, who will slam the door, even WHIP...I'd of gotten over it, I'm sure, but won't get the chance to see that much now. Hopefully tho' Betances can come thru, game after game. I do hope so.....!

 

[yankeesince59]

...Matts, I know what you and a couple of others are saying about your concerns about DRob...but people seem to forget that often times Mo manage to makes things a little "interesting" in the 9th inning too. But being as good as he was, he was usually able to get the final out, and often times, with runner/s on base and sometimes in scoring position. If Mo didn't walk Millar to lead off the 9th in game 4 of the 2004 ALCS and also walk the leadoff batter in the WS in 2001, the Yanx have 2 more rings...but that's the burden that a closer must bear.
...Mo was able to get the save more times than not, because like Robertson, he was able to strike a lot of batters out. I'm in no way comparing Mo's career to DRob's but no one should compare Miller's or Betances' careers to DRob's either.


...said it before and I'll say it again...Robertson and Miller are both very good relievers, but if I had to choose between the 2, even with the difference in contracts, I'd still rather have DRob than Miller.

 

[blgridesagain]

...Matts, I know what you and a couple of others are saying about your concerns about DRob...but people seem to forget that often times Mo manage to makes things a little "interesting" in the 9th inning too. But being as good as he was, he was usually able to get the final out, and often times, with runner/s on base and sometimes in scoring position. If Mo didn't walk Millar to lead off the 9th in game 4 of the 2004 ALCS and also walk the leadoff batter in the WS in 2001, the Yanx have 2 more rings...but that's the burden that a closer must bear.
...Mo was able to get the save more times than not, because like Robertson, he was able to strike a lot of batters out. I'm in no way comparing Mo's career to DRob's but no one should compare Miller's or Betances' careers to DRob's either.


...said it before and I'll say it again...Robertson and Miller are both very good relievers, but if I had to choose between the 2, even with the difference in contracts, I'd still rather have DRob than Miller.

_______________________________

The 2001 WS still stings a bit - coulda woulda shoulda been a glorious 4th straight WS Title with big mouth Schilling being the losing pitcher after Soriano hit the 8th inn HR off him for a 2-1 lead.
Schilling and Clemens pitched VERY WELL.

Mariano was in his 2nd inn of work in that 9th inning...remember Torre/Yanks were having problems with the 8th inning guys and Torre wouldn't hesitate to use Mariano for two innings - he already had a two inn save in the series.

Mariano set them down in the 8th and struggled in the 9th - Grace lead off the 9th with a clean crisp line drive single up the middle and I knew Mo was in trouble...he would struggle in his 2nd inn of work- can't blame him.....

It's ironic, the Yanks could've used a Robertson in the 8th inn of game 7 , 2001 WS. ouch...that series still stings. ooch

 

[yankeesince59]

^^^ I stand corrected...Mo gave up a leadoff single to Grace, not a BB... and then proceeded to throw a routine sacrifice bunt attempt into CF...then gave up a double to Womack, then hit a batter (Counsell), then surrendered the series winning RBI to Gonzalez.

...Mo's stat line; 1/3rd IP...3 hits, 1 error, 1 HBP. 2 runs. Regardless, the point is that even the best are fallible...and Robertson was asked to pitch more than 1 inning 7-8 times in 2014.

 

[Rick2583]

Like I said, for the money D-Rob ended up getting I wish they would have kept him.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

...Matts, I know what you and a couple of others are saying about your concerns about DRob...but people seem to forget that often times Mo manage to makes things a little "interesting" in the 9th inning too. But being as good as he was, he was usually able to get the final out, and often times, with runner/s on base and sometimes in scoring position. If Mo didn't walk Millar to lead off the 9th in game 4 of the 2004 ALCS and also walk the leadoff batter in the WS in 2001, the Yanx have 2 more rings...but that's the burden that a closer must bear.
...Mo was able to get the save more times than not, because like Robertson, he was able to strike a lot of batters out. I'm in no way comparing Mo's career to DRob's but no one should compare Miller's or Betances' careers to DRob's either.


...said it before and I'll say it again...Robertson and Miller are both very good relievers, but if I had to choose between the 2, even with the difference in contracts, I'd still rather have DRob than Miller.

^^^ I stand corrected...Mo gave up a leadoff single to Grace, not a BB... and then proceeded to throw a routine sacrifice bunt attempt into CF...then gave up a double to Womack, then hit a batter (Counsell), then surrendered the series winning RBI to Gonzalez.

...Mo's stat line; 1/3rd IP...3 hits, 1 error, 1 HBP. 2 runs. Regardless, the point is that even the best are fallible...and Robertson was asked to pitch more than 1 inning 7-8 times in 2014.

59, all of your points are more than valid. I hear ya' and thanks for reminding me of Mo's blown saves. Tho' I can't ever forget his dive vs the D'Back & Gonzo's HR. As big a Heart break as possible....

Overall, I'd rather of seen the Yanx keep D-Rob than buy Miller....Ultimately, I was really hoping for Miller, D-Rob and Betances all in the BP, via committee, if ever necessary. Honestly tho' my concerns on D-Rob are more unfounded, rather founded more in my over anxieties. (Where's the Valium)....

In the end, Yes, I'd rather have D-Rob with a higher paycheck, than lose D-Rob to obtain Miller. I know had D-Rob of remained the closer with the Yanx this year, I have no doubt, my over zealous anxieties would of come to an end, (without Valium or a stiff drink).....Nothing wrong with D-Rob as much as what's wrong with Me, and My anxiety, therein lies the problem....

I always appreciate your insight and clarification 59.....

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Like I said, for the money D-Rob ended up getting I wish they would have kept him.

I gotta' agree with you Rick and all others who feel the same way....Thanks...now I'm going sober, no drinks no sedatives....J/K....

 

[yankeesince59]

59, all of your points are more than valid. I hear ya' and thanks for reminding me of Mo's blown saves. Tho' I can't ever forget his dive vs the D'Back & Gonzo's HR. As big a Heart break as possible....

Overall, I'd rather of seen the Yanx keep D-Rob than buy Miller....Ultimately, I was really hoping for Miller, D-Rob and Betances all in the BP, via committee, if ever necessary. Honestly tho' my concerns on D-Rob are more unfounded, rather founded more in my over anxieties. (Where's the Valium)....

In the end, Yes, I'd rather have D-Rob with a higher paycheck, than lose D-Rob to obtain Miller. I know had D-Rob of remained the closer with the Yanx this year, I have no doubt, my over zealous anxieties would of come to an end, (without Valium or a stiff drink).....Nothing wrong with D-Rob as much as what's wrong with Me, and My anxiety, therein lies the problem....

I always appreciate your insight and clarification 59.....

...yeah, I too would have liked to have had all 3 (Miller, Betances, and DRob)...sorry that it didn't work out that way. I also would like to see the Yanx not pigeon hole any one reliever for the closer role. Sometimes getting out of a jam with runners on base in the 7th or 8th innings can be just as critical as getting the last 3 outs in the 9th inning with no one on base.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

...yeah, I too would have liked to have had all 3 (Miller, Betances, and DRob)...sorry that it didn't work out that way. I also would like to see the Yanx not pigeon hole any one reliever for the closer role. Sometimes getting out of a jam with runners on base in the 7th or 8th innings can be just as critical as getting the last 3 outs in the 9th inning with no one on base.

No Doubt Indeed.....