Lillard fighting the good fight alone?

[GDiama]

Let me know if I have this correct:

When Nurse had two all-stars, including an all-nba 2 way player, he was a great coach?

After losing his all-nba player, his teams have continued to decline?

Not too shocking is it?

I don't think it's fair. They are playing away from home whole season. Players away from families. It's not simple to judge the Raptors just by results this season.

 

[twobullz]

Beal plays on a garbage team and has Westbrook averaging a triple-double beside him. We’ve seen CJ when Dame is out and he averages almost 30ppg in those games. Put CJ on the ball and have him drive more and he gets to the FT line more often.

CJ games with Dame out...

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/ho...er-when-damiam-lillard-was-out-with-game-logs

So you are saying CJ would average more points playing next to Westbrook compared to Dame? Or you saying CJ would average as many points as Beal on a garbage team because he would get more shots? CJ has the ball in his hands a lot as it and doesn't get to the line. He just went through a stretch of 4 games with 0 FT's. He is averaging as many shots per game as Beal now. Those stats you showed CJ averages 5 Ft's a game. So with 2.4 more FT's per game and .5 more shots per game CJ is going to average 8 more points a game? I don't see it.

When it comes to SG I would list Harden, Beal, Lavine, Mitchell, Booker, Brown and George all ahead of CJ.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

You know it’s all fucked when fentress is making points.

He’s being sarcastic.

 

[GDiama]

right, so back to my original question. Who is this player and how do we get them?

You never know who is available and how that teams values our players. Maybe we could have had Vucevic for Nurk+Simons who knows.

 

[Scalma]

https://www.nba.com/2021-all-star-roster

1. Draft them when they're available.
2. Acquire enough good players on team friendly deals to trade for an all-star.

If CJ were making less money, we could use him to get an all-star. Instead, he's being paid like an all-star and therefore has a lower value around the league than his skill set.

This year there was ONE all star that was drafted outside of the top 16. Since CJ was drafted, Portland has been in the top 16 twice. Once they traded up to get Collins, the other time they traded for Covington. The reality is Portland hasn’t been in the position to draft all stars because their record hasn’t been bad enough.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

So you are saying CJ would average more points playing next to Westbrook compared to Dame? Or you saying CJ would average as many points as Beal on a garbage team because he would get more shots? CJ has the ball in his hands a lot as it and doesn't get to the line. He just went through a stretch of 4 games with 0 FT's. He is averaging as many shots per game as Beal now. Those stats you showed CJ averages 5 Ft's a game. So with 2.4 more FT's per game and .5 more shots per game CJ is going to average 8 more points a game? I don't see it.

When it comes to SG I would list Harden, Beal, Lavine, Mitchell, Booker, Brown and George all ahead of CJ.

I said what I said. CJ could average 30ppg on a bad team. He almost does it when Dame is out and those are mid-season adjustments. No need to look further into it.

 

[blazerkor]

You know it’s all fucked when fentress is making points.

I find it strange how his Olshey apologist comment didn't mention Harden, PG13 or Butler.

 

[twobullz]

I said what I said. CJ could average 30ppg on a bad team. He almost does it when Dame is out and those are mid-season adjustments. No need to look further into it.

He averages 25.5 points in those games Dame is out so not sure how he is going to all of a sudden average 30.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

I don't think it's fair. They are playing away from home whole season. Players away from families. It's not simple to judge the Raptors just by results this season.

Those that have families are living in Tampa with them, IIRC. Most are single young guys so that doesn’t really matter.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

He averages 25.5 points in those games Dame is out so not sure how he is going to all of a sudden average 30.

28ppg over his career when Dame is out. If you’re not going to read the facts I presented, please refrain from lying about things to me.

 

[OneSport3]

I don't think it's fair. They are playing away from home whole season. Players away from families. It's not simple to judge the Raptors just by results this season.

Exactly, people forget that they are not playing in Toronto this season. They are in a season long quasi-bubble. That’s a big disadvantage.

Also, they are in full rebuild mode. Not only did they lose Kawhi 2 seasons ago, they lost Gasol and Ibaka this past offseason. That’s 2/3 of the front court from the championship season. They went younger and traded Powell and did their absolute best to try and trade Lowry at the deadline.

 

[Scalma]

I find it strange how his Olshey apologist comment didn't mention Harden, PG13 or Butler.

as if any of those guys were available for CJ. There’s literally not been ONE report connecting Houston to CJ yet people have just run with this idea (fantasy?) that we could’ve had Harden for him.

 

[GDiama]

Those that have families are living in Tampa with them, IIRC. Most are single young guys so that doesn’t really matter.

Yep i m pretty sure that doesn't matter at all.

 

[Scalma]

If you wanna criticize Olshey, criticize him for not making Simons available for Aaron Gordon. That’d at least be fair. But then again Gordon isn’t an all star so I guess we wouldn’t have gotten better

 

[RoseCityRebel]

Exactly, people forget that they are not playing in Toronto this season. They are in a season long quasi-bubble. That’s a big disadvantage.

Also, they are in full rebuild mode. Not only did they lose Kawhi 2 seasons ago, they lost Gasol and Ibaka this past offseason. That’s 2/3 of the front court from the championship season. They went younger and traded Powell and did their absolute best to try and trade Lowry at the deadline.

“Full rebuild mode” with Lowry and Siakem still on the roster and a mid-lottery pick at best in the weakest draft in years.

Gasol was washed and can’t even get minutes over Dwight Howard. Ibaka is having his worst season in years and barely plays 24 mpg.

 

[twobullz]

28ppg over his career when Dame is out. If you’re not going to read the facts I presented, please refrain from lying about things to me.

Sorry I miss counted and divided by 25 instead of 24. Facts still remain 28 is not 30. You keep insisted he would average 30+ if he wasn't having to play with Dame, yet he still doesn't average that in the games he has played with out Dame in his career.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

If you wanna criticize Olshey, criticize him for not making Simons available for Aaron Gordon. That’d at least be fair. But then again Gordon isn’t an all star so I guess we wouldn’t have gotten better

How do you make that trade work considering Gordon makes $20m/year and Simons makes $2.2m this year?

Some people don’t seem to understand how the salary cap and trades associated with it work.

 

[OneSport3]

“Full rebuild mode” with Lowry and Siakem still on the roster and a mid-lottery pick at best in the weakest draft in years.

Gasol was washed and can’t even get minutes over Dwight Howard. Ibaka is having his worst season in years and barely plays 24 mpg.

They tried to trade Lowry at the deadline.

Why would Gasol get minutes over Dwight Howard when Howard plays for the Sixers??? You are one confused dude.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

Sorry I miss counted and divided by 25 instead of 24. Facts still remain 28 is not 30. You keep insisted he would average 30+ if he wasn't having to play with Dame, yet he still doesn't average that in the games he has played with out Dame in his career.

OK you won. 28ppg isn’t 30ppg. Congrats. I’m sure CJ couldn’t get 2 more ppg at the line with the ball in his hands more often

 

[Scalma]

Sorry I miss counted and divided by 25 instead of 24. Facts still remain 28 is not 30. You keep insisted he would average 30+ if he wasn't having to play with Dame, yet he still doesn't average that in the games he has played with out Dame in his career.

what are his averages without Dame? I know they’re good and reflective of a top player. I think another GM would/should be intrigued by those numbers.

 

[Strenuus]

Remember that Dame went to Haynes to say he was returning before he told stotts.

Stotts is done. Olshey should be done.

Those two are the reason we suck.

 

[blazerkor]

If you wanna criticize Olshey, criticize him for not making Simons available for Aaron Gordon. That’d at least be fair. But then again Gordon isn’t an all star so I guess we wouldn’t have gotten better

I don't actually know what we could get for CJ. I just know that CJ is a terrible fit next to Dame and we're paying him 30M to be that. Of course there have been rumors that CJ has been made unavailable in the past in trade talks for Butler and George but those are just rumors. Of course back then Olshey validated the concerns those rumors gave credence to by calling him untouchable and giving him an extension that averages 30M per season.

So it's just unconscionably overvaluing the Dame/CJ back court, all of the extensions that Olshey has given out in which he's bid against himself, keeping Stotts around forever and letting players like LMA and now likely Gary (obviously not as big of a deal as LMA but still) walk away with nothing in return that I think are great reasons to criticize and fire Olshey.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

They tried to trade Lowry at the deadline.

Why would Gasol get minutes over Dwight Howard when Howard plays for the Sixers??? You are one confused dude.

I meant Drummond. It’s not easy keeping track of all the washed up bigs in the NBA. Thinking Toronto missing Gasol is a big deal is hilarious to me.

Nick Nurse got lucky.

 

[twobullz]

OK you won. 28ppg isn’t 30ppg. Congrats. I’m sure CJ couldn’t get 2 more ppg at the line with the ball in his hands more often

Beal touches the ball 69 times a game, CJ 66.3. Not like Beal has a lot more usage compared to CJ as it. He just does more with the ball and he is playing with a player who dominates the ball a lot more than Dame does.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

what are his averages without Dame? I know they’re good and reflective of a top player. I think another GM would/should be intrigued by those numbers.

I literally posted the linked stats of CJ when Dame doesn’t play. It’s over 28ppg and 6 assists.

 

[GDiama]

The team is built with Dame and CJ. The numbers that CJ produces when Dame is out are not saying much because we are one man/40M down. If CJ was on other team it doesn't mean that team would only have offensively limited players around him as we do when Dame is out.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

He’s being sarcastic.

He should be sarcastic. CJ may not be on the same level as those mentioned, but he IS a borderline all star (and is perfectly happy to be in Portland for the long term). Hate him all you want, you don’t just give him away for an obvious short term rental. Had we made the trade, every single one of those guys would still be playing for the teams they are playing for today, whether they helped us to a ring or not (see Cleveland, Chicago and Golden State). Be careful what you wish for……

 

[RoseCityRebel]

Beal touches the ball 69 times a game, CJ 66.3. Not like Beal has a lot more usage compared to CJ as it. He just does more with the ball and he is playing with a player who dominates the ball a lot more than Dame does.

Those touches would go up for CJ. Remember, I said a bad team. If you want to argue that 28ppg couldn’t become 30ppg when winning doesn’t matter, not sure why we’d continue this discussion.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

He should be sarcastic. CJ may not be on the same level as those mentioned, but he IS a borderline all star (and is perfectly happy to be in Portland for the long term). Hate him all you want, you don’t just give him away for an obvious short term rental. Had we made the trade, every single one of those guys would still be playing for the teams they are playing for today, whether they helped us to a ring or not (see Cleveland, Chicago and Golden State). Be careful what you wish for……

I totally agree. We’re making the same points, except mine are more long-winded and boring.

 

[Scalma]

Remember that Dame went to Haynes to say he was returning before he told stotts.

Stotts is done. Olshey should be done.

Those two are the reason we suck.

My thing is if it the stuff in that Haynes article is coming from Dame, what exactly is he asking for? Because the two most obvious solutions are firing Stotts, and trading CJ. I can’t imagine Dame really encouraging the latter. Or does he expect Olshey to land an all star caliber player with other players like Simons, etc? I doubt he even wants to see Simons leave, that’s his guy too. Has his focus shifted to winning over friendships?

This goes back to the theory that I’m just running with now; Dame is absolutely done with Stotts. Haynes and his manager/agent have now both openly called out coaching. There’s enough smoke there to believe it.