Lillard makes for an intriguing trade asset--discuss

[Minstrel]

Good points made on the ringer NBA show today when talking about trading stars in their primes.

UTA hasn't made the playoffs since trading Deron.
MIN hasn't made the playoffs since trading KG.
ORL hasn't made the playoffs since trading Dwight.

Of course, it's quite likely that Utah wouldn't have anyway, since Deron declined precipitously after that deal. Orlando may have been a playoff team for another year until Howard left, but Howard also began declining soon after. In both cases, the teams were motivated sellers because they didn't think they could re-sign the players.

I think those two deals made sense at the time and they didn't really lose a ton even if the returns weren't quite what they hoped.

 

[illmatic99]

Of course, it's quite likely that Utah wouldn't have anyway, since Deron declined precipitously after that deal. Orlando may have been a playoff team for a few more years, but Howard also began declining soon after.

I think those two deals made sense at the time and they didn't really lose a ton even if the returns weren't quite what they hoped.

The point is, there are clearly times when you have to hit the reset button on teams that aren't working. But there are lot more situations in the past in which rebuilds have backfired.

I'm not opposed to trading Dame for an established superstar on a longterm contract. But for just picks? Hell no. I'd rather be on a treadmill with hope of a 2nd round than in the lotto year after year.

 

[craigehlo]

 

[illmatic99]

I'll do that if they throw in Giannis

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not opposed to trading Dame for an established superstar on a longterm contract. But for just picks? Hell no. I'd rather be on a treadmill with hope of a 2nd round than in the lotto year after year.

Just for picks? No. Nor for a bunch of okay players. But Lillard is on a long-term deal--I edited my post to note that both Utah and Orlando were dealing their dude because they didn't feel they could re-sign him. A better comparison would be Aldridge--a year before he was due to be a free agent, if you didn't think he'd re-sign, would you have dealt him for a solid package of picks/young players? I would have.

 

[Minstrel]

I'll do that if they throw in Giannis

Lillard isn't worth just Giannis, let alone both Giannis and Parker. But I wouldn't even consider Lillard for Parker.

 

[illmatic99]

Just for picks? No. Nor for a bunch of okay players. But Lillard is on a long-term deal--I edited my post to note that both Utah and Orlando were dealing their dude because they didn't feel they could re-sign him. A better comparison would be Aldridge--a year before he was due to be a free agent, if you didn't think he'd re-sign, would you have dealt him for a solid package of picks/young players? I would have.

Dame has 4 yrs left on a very reasonable deal.

How is that comparable to an older Aldridge with one year left?

 

[illmatic99]

Lillard isn't worth just Giannis, let alone both Giannis and Parker. But I wouldn't even consider Lillard for Parker.

No shit.

 

[Minstrel]

Dame has 4 yrs left on a very reasonable deal.

How is that comparable to an older Aldridge with one year left?

I was saying that Lillard is a bad comparison to the Deron Williams and Dwight Howard deals, because both teams felt they couldn't re-sign them. I then said that Aldridge is the better comparison to the Deron Williams and Dwight Howard deals.

I'll re-state this differently: a big reason why it wouldn't make sense to deal Lillard for picks and/or multiple young players is because he's signed long-term, something that wasn't true of Deron Williams and Dwight Howard. LaMarcus Aldridge a year before his free agency would be a superior comparison to those trades you quoted and I'd definitely have dealt him for picks/young players if I felt I couldn't re-sign him.

 

[Pinwheel1]

[QUOTE="Minstrel, post: 4093910, member: 20914"]Lillard isn't worth just Giannis, let alone both Giannis and Parker. But I wouldn't even consider Lillard for Parker.[/QUOTE]

At what point is his Giannis' freakish abilities going to translate into wins? Maybe he is just a tweener who would be an awesome role player, but nothing more

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Lillard isn't worth just Giannis, let alone both Giannis and Parker. But I wouldn't even consider Lillard for Parker.

What about if Middleton and Brogdon were also involved?

 

[B-Roy]

Lillard isn't worth just Giannis, let alone both Giannis and Parker. But I wouldn't even consider Lillard for Parker.

At what point is his Giannis' freakish abilities going to translate into wins? Maybe he is just a tweener who would be an awesome role player, but nothing more

The Bucks have a better record than Portland, with arguably a worse roster.

Also, I would not call 23/6/9 with a 26 PER on good efficiency a "role player". He's also 4 years younger than Lillard. I don't think there is any debate that Giannis > Lillard, both in value and as a player.

 

[illmatic99]

What about if Middleton and Brogdon were also involved?

So a guy who has had 2 ACL surgeries on the same knee before the age of 22, coming up for a max extension, a guy who is coming off a torn hamstring injury that just sidelined him for half a year, and a rookie backup PG.

That is the package that will make us trade Dame on the first year of his extremely reasonable contract with 0 external pressure to move him?

You guys seriously considering this bullshit?

 

[chzbrgr]

Parker, Middleton, Brogdon is a pretty good haul for Dame IMO not in any way saying itll happen but its a decent deal

 

[Sarni]

At what point is his Giannis' freakish abilities going to translate into wins? Maybe he is just a tweener who would be an awesome role player, but nothing more

They were actually looking good this year but their form dipped. They were missing Middleton badly and had to patch their backcourt because they lack a good point guard and Brogdon has been their best comboguard - he is a rookie that was taken as a 2nd rounder. With Middleton in that line up they would have been 4-5 wins better off for sure and over .500.

Then Parker got injured at exactly the same point Middleton came back (think it was the exact same game, first game back from injury for Middleton and Parker gets hurt).

He doesn't really have great personnel to play with. Monroe is inept defensively, Henson is average, Dellavedova is one of the weakest starting point guards in the league, Teletovic and Beasley are average rotation players, Brogdon and Maker are just rookies even if talented. It's all about him and Parker and he's been putting up insane numbers on both ends of the court.

 

[illmatic99]

Parker, Middleton, Brogdon is a pretty good haul for Dame IMO not in any way saying itll happen but its a decent deal

smh, i give up.

Dudes, unless Dame is asking for a trade, you don't trade him for anything less than a definitive star on a long term deal. MIL has one of those players and he's clearly not being moved. They're not even an option.

 

[Reep]

So a guy who has had 2 ACL surgeries on the same knee before the age of 22, coming up for a max extension, . . . .

But don't forget Parker is also an undersized PF who doesn't rebound well and is a below average defender. What isn't to like about that?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So a guy who has had 2 ACL surgeries on the same knee before the age of 22, coming up for a max extension, a guy who is coming off a torn hamstring injury that just sidelined him for half a year, and a rookie backup PG.

That is the package that will make us trade Dame on the first year of his extremely reasonable contract with 0 external pressure to move him?

You guys seriously considering this bullshit?

Or you could frame it as, a 20 ppg scoring PF, a 20 ppg scoring 6'8" wing, and a 6'5" PG, the latter two of which are also excellent defensive players.

The fact that Parker/Middleton have suffered injuries are the only reason that Milwaukee might theoretically consider such a deal.

Not saying that I'd necessarily want to do the deal either, but I think it's the kind of gamble that small market teams need to consider.

 

[illmatic99]

The idea that Jabari Parker has any sort of value above being a throw in is baffling to me.

It was a bogus rumor from a bogus Marc Stein account, and Frank Isola is just sleazy enough to run with it. smh

 

[chzbrgr]

Maybe he is just a tweener who would be an awesome role player, but nothing more

This is just willfully ignorant. One is an all-star elite 2-way player one is not. Giannis is on track to be a 10x time all-star don't play yourself.

Love dame but when are his "leadership skills" going to lead to more wins or even just a team that gives consistent effort on a nightly basis? The things leadership contributes to are the things as a fan base we've been bitching about all year. Not to mention the fact the Bucks have a better record with their second best player on the shelf all year, and their third best done for the next year now. (poor Jabari that kid is a really good player my heart goes out to him)

 

[illmatic99]

This is just willfully ignorant. One is an all-star elite 2-way player one is not. Giannis is on track to be a 10x time all-star don't play yourself.

Love dame but when are his "leadership skills" going to lead to more wins or even just a team that gives consistent effort on a nightly basis? The things leadership contributes to are the things as a fan base we've been bitching about all year. Not to mention the fact the Bucks have a better record with their second best player on the shelf all year, and their third best done for the next year now. (poor Jabari that kid is a really good player my heart goes out to him)

It's as if last year didn't even happen.

Speaking of willful ignorance...

 

[chzbrgr]

smh, i give up.

Dudes, unless Dame is asking for a trade, you don't trade him for anything less than a definitive star on a long term deal. MIL has one of those players and he's clearly not being moved. They're not even an option.

you gotta reading comprehension issue? This isnt real you know that right? Middleton hasnt played all year so Ill just assume you dont remember how good he is. But as far as hypothetical trades go this one wasnt bad.

 

[chzbrgr]

It's as if last year didn't even happen.

Speaking of willful ignorance...

you mean 44 wins? soccer moms think theyre kids are all messi's and Ronaldo's

 

[illmatic99]

you gotta reading comprehension issue? This isnt real you know that right? Middleton hasnt played all year so Ill just assume you dont remember how good he is. But as far as hypothetical trades go this one wasnt bad.

You called it a good haul.

It isn't.

 

[B-Roy]

The idea that Jabari Parker has any sort of value above being a throw in is baffling to me.

Lol what? Injury or not Parker has got to have more value than a mere throw in...

 

[chzbrgr]

you belong on T_D my man places where "pretty good" and "decent" mean "GREAT!" and "DO IT NOW!" lol but by all means get your panties in a bunch over a hypothetical trade scenario.

 

[illmatic99]

Lol what? Injury or not Parker has got to have more value than a mere throw in...

Perhaps a bit hyperbolic, but I certainly don't think he can be the main cog in a deal that lands Dame freakin Lillard.

 

[santeesioux]

If Parker wasn't so injury prone we would possibly have a good trade here, but with the team's injury history it's a hard sell.

 

[craigehlo]

In terms of Parker's value, has any NBA star come back from two ACL repairs on the same leg?

 

[Pinwheel1]

This is just willfully ignorant. One is an all-star elite 2-way player one is not. Giannis is on track to be a 10x time all-star don't play yourself.

All I am doing is asking the question. Similar question I asked about for all the other Milwaukee Bucks we have fallen in love with in the last few years.

I acknowledged he would be an awesome role player, but how many 10x allstars, who are guards/wings, shoot 27% from 3pt range these days?

Don't get me wrong I would love to have him on our team, but in today's NBA if you can't shoot from deep at a high level, you will struggle to become a super star.