Lillard - Rookie of the Month (confirmed)

[magnifier661]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

Your street cred just went up 3 1/2 points!

And if I work real hard, I can be a part of the "Hoops Family!"

 

[THE HCP]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

nbastats

Since '85, Lillard is just 3rd player (D. Rose & Iverson) to record 300pts & 100asts in 1st 17 career games

 

[Haakzilla]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

...how about Rookies of the Year, together!

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

Yes, EFF is a simple raw good minus bad calculation. PER is adjusted for minutes played and pace. When comparing rookies, I definitely prefer EFF as it accurately reflects actual production. If you use PER, some guy who scores a couple meaningless baskets during garbage time once a week can have a higher PER than someone like Lillard who is starting, playing big minutes every night, and making a solid contribution to his team's success.

For example, if you sort the current rookie class by PER, 6 of the top 10 have played 62 minutes or less. The top two are Diante Garrett and Scott Mchado at PER = 42.1. They've played a combined 8 minutes all season and scored a combined total of 4 points.

So, for comparing rookies, I'll go with actual production over minute adjusted, pace adjusted garbage time stat padders any day.

PER is more sophisticated, but it's best used for comparing players of similar roles.

BNM

i like PER better, as you can just use common sense in comparing players, and easily weed out the guys playing less than 10 mpg

drummond is putting up a great PER in 17 mpg for example, now you can extrapolate that out to 36 mpg, but until that happens, all that you can say for sure is that for 17 mpg, he is capable of putting up those numbers

lillard is playing 38 mpg, so there is no guessing, he is playing at an elite level for a rookie

 

[Eastoff]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

...how about Rookies of the Year, together!

Wtf is that white guy?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

The third Gasol brother, Pedro, I think...

 

[Further]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

The third Gasol brother, Pedro, I think...

He's tiny for a Gasol, what, perhaps 6'5"? Got to be picked on around the dinner table.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

he has better court vision than both, though...dude can really read a defense.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

The third Gasol brother, Pedro, I think...

i dont think so, their younger bro (ariel or something?) is 6'10" and is walking on at ucla i believe

unless i just missed a hilarious joke or something

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

Ugh. I hate misleading thread titles. Can you wait til he wins the award? I log in, see the thread, and assume he's won it. He hasn't yet. A more appropriate title would be "Rookie of the Month." Get it together guys.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

...how about Rookies of the Year, together!

]

It is hard to argue for Luck when looking.at.RG3s numbers.

 

[Rhal]

It is hard to argue for Luck when looking.at.RG3s numbers.

Hard to argue for RG3 when you look at a player taking the worst team in the league last year and making them a probable 10 win playoff team.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

Hard to argue for RG3 when you look at a player taking the worst team in the league last year and making them a probable 10 win playoff team.

Like anything else it is a numbers racket though. RG3 wins Rookie of the Year in a landslide.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

Hard to argue for RG3 when you look at a player taking the worst team in the league last year and making them a probable 10 win playoff team.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Put RG3 on the Colts and they might win 11-12 games. I am a Colt fan and Luck's numbers are closer to the other rookies.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

It's Andrew Luck.

LOL at the 3rd Gasol brother. Christ, watch some football once in a while.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

Man, I was hoping for some laughs...instead, I got one guy who picked up on it, two guys who think I'm an idiot and I might have ruined 3RA1N1AC's night by making him google Gasol brothers.

 

[Haakzilla]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

 

[illmatic99]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

Ridiculous.

[video=youtube;DO5erRRZ5tk]

@1:25

[video=youtube;mO0Z2QS_w3k]

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

...how about Rookies of the Year, together!

Fuck yea frame it!

Ugh. I hate misleading thread titles. Can you wait til he wins the award? I log in, see the thread, and assume he's won it. He hasn't yet. A more appropriate title would be "Rookie of the Month." Get it together guys.

Really dude? There was a question mark. And the sooner you learn to not assume things the better, especially here!

 

[axs88]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

Yes, EFF is a simple raw good minus bad calculation. PER is adjusted for minutes played and pace. When comparing rookies, I definitely prefer EFF as it accurately reflects actual production. If you use PER, some guy who scores a couple meaningless baskets during garbage time once a week can have a higher PER than someone like Lillard who is starting, playing big minutes every night, and making a solid contribution to his team's success.

For example, if you sort the current rookie class by PER, 6 of the top 10 have played 62 minutes or less. The top two are Diante Garrett and Scott Mchado at PER = 42.1. They've played a combined 8 minutes all season and scored a combined total of 4 points.

So, for comparing rookies, I'll go with actual production over minute adjusted, pace adjusted garbage time stat padders any day.

PER is more sophisticated, but it's best used for comparing players of similar roles.

BNM

How about Hollinger's VA (Value Added)?

VA: Value Added - the estimated number of points a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' (for instance, the 12th man on the roster) would produce. Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards

Lillard is first in that too, of course, followed by Drummond and MKG: Link

 

[Rhal]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

Put RG3 on the Colts and they might win 11-12 games. I am a Colt fan and Luck's numbers are closer to the other rookies.

I'v watched a good amount of both Luck and RG3 and I would disagree there. RG3 benefits from the fact he has a very good rushing game that opens up holes for himself to run and doesn't allow teams to double their WR's, also allows him to throw less. Luck doesn't have the benefit of a good run game to control the clock or get easy yards, he has to constantly throw which is why he has almost 200 more attempts then RG3, and when you have to throw that much and teams expect you to throw that much then your going to get intercepted a lot. Luck isn't as good of a runner as RG3 but RG3 has twice as many rushing attempts and only 1 more TD. Colts and the Skins are both bad football teams being carried by elite rookie QB's but I'd give the edge to Luck on the fact the Colts have no reliable run game and there Oline is worse.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month

How about Hollinger's VA (Value Added)?



Lillard is first in that too, of course, followed by Drummond and MKG: Link

I like it better than PER, for comparing rookies, but I still prefer EFF. VA includes PER in the calculation and still excessively (IMHO) rewards players who put up good numbers in fewer minutes.

I'm also not sure why he considers shooting guards and small forwards more valuable than point guards. It seems like those are the two easiest positions to fill. With the way the NBA rules have evolved, a PG who can both create for himself, and his teammates seems to be a very valuable commodity that's in short supply.

The rookies that make the biggest impact are those that play the most minutes. And those that play the best are the most productive and have the highest EFF. EFF is a very simple calculation, but in this case, I think simple is better. When it comes to ROY and All Rookie Team voting, total contribution is what's most important. The guy who starts and plays 30+ MPG makes a bigger total contribution than the guy who plays well, but comes off the bench for 15 MPG.

The problem is EFF is a misnomer. It's not really about efficiency (that's what PER is for). It really should be called something like net production or total production. It measures absolute production, in terms of good minus bad. It doesn't attempt to adjust for minutes or pace - just how much is this guy contributing to his team. And, for a rookie, the guys who plays big minutes and make the most total positive contribution has a bigger impact than the guy who plays 15 MPG, but does it more "efficiently"

BNM

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

Of course, given that Lillard is (I think) top 10 for PG EFF regardless of age helps his case there.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

im pretty sure its not a gasol brother, unless maybe he was adopted? either way, im not really up on soccer, is he a rookie in the premier league?

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

im pretty sure its not a gasol brother, unless maybe he was adopted? either way, im not really up on soccer, is he a rookie in the premier league?

You cant be serious.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

like i said, not really a soccer fan

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

like i said, not really a soccer fan

It's Andrew Luck, Colts rookie QB.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

It's Andrew Luck, Colts rookie QB.

?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

Of course, given that Lillard is (I think) top 10 for PG EFF regardless of age helps his case there.

He's currently 12th in EFF among PGs, but 15th among all guards. The only 3 SGs ahead of him are Kobe, Harden and Wade. Maybe Hollinger is right, maybe it's harder to find good SGs. Or maybe, in today's NBA, PGs are relied on to score more, in addition to their duties running the teams offense. Scoring + assists results in a higher EFF than scoring alone. It seem a lot of SGs are now 3rd options (or below) on most teams.

In any case, Lillard is 46th in the entire league in EFF. Anthony Davis, who has only played six games, is the only other rookie in the top 85. Until Davis starts playing again, ROY is a one man race - like it was during Brandon Roy's rookie year.

BNM

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Lillard - Rookie of the Month? (unconfirmed)

You mean, Swirsky's going to give Terrence Ross a vote?