Lillard Time vs NLT

[TBpup]

#LillardTime is one of the most amazing, entertaining shows in the NBA. When Dame is hot, maybe only Steph Curry can match him shot for shot.

However, for every brief stretch of #LillardTime, there are even longer stretches of non-Lillard Time either because he is not shooting well or like tonight, just when he is not on the floor.

In the 3rd quarter, Dame went mano-a-mano with Curry and was 7-9 from the field and torching the net. By contrast, for the rest of the game he was 6-18 which is on the very south side of efficient. Then when Dame was off the court, the Blazers were brutal. CJ was a -25 which means when CJ wasn't on the court, the Blazers played the Warriors dead even. Now this is not knock on CJ...he just had a very good game again Boston. It is more of a commentary on what happens when Dame isn't hot.

We've talked about this before but it seems to be happening more and more often. There is a brief scorching hot-streak surround by less than mediocre shooting which for the game has resulted in Dame shooting over 50% just 4 times in the last 35 games.

FOUR in 35 games.....that isn't an just an aberration. For all of the red-hot streaks, there hasn't been enough to offset the rest of that poor shooting. You would think a player of Dame's caliber would accidentally fall into an over 50% more often even against a very bad game but it just isn't happening.

It's not that he is going to stay #LillardTime hot all game but if he could just be 8-18 in non-Lillard time instead of 6-18 that would be a big difference. I get that he has a lot to shoulder and tonight without him, the Blazers weren't close to being in the same class as the Warriors.

Better shots, better decisions and leave the heat check to when you are IN LillardTime and not out of it. If he can do that, he will get closer to the type of efficiency that Curry has that makes him so ridiculously tough to guard.

 

[HailBlazers]

You forgot one, better teammates.

 

[BonesJones]

So if he went 8 of 18, it would've been a big difference in making it a 20 point game instead of 25. Correct

 

[Natebishop3]

Is 50% from the floor supposed to be common for guards?

 

[H.C.]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalPct/year/2016/seasontype/2

Not counting EFG.. In the top 40 there are a total of 6 non-forward type players.

I see what you're saying. Shooting 42% from the field is a little low. But there are a ton of "big names" that are right near Lillard. Lowry for having a career year according to many is only at 43%.

Now if you go to EFG Lillard is around 50%

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/p...sort/shootingEfficiency/position/point-guards

 

[dviss1]

Is 50% from the floor supposed to be common for guards?

No. Guards don't shoot that well unless they're named Jordan, Stockton, or Parker.

 

[illmatic99]

No. Guards don't shoot that well unless they're named Jordan, Stockton, or Parker.

or Curry.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

or Curry.

If every guard got the screens he's allowed to get, the list might be longer.

 

[TBpup]

Is 50% from the floor supposed to be common for guards?

No, it's not....but then I don't think Dame is a 'common guard'. All I'm hoping for is shooting a little closer to 40% during non-Lillard time. That is still not very good but when balanced out with red-hot shooting of those stretches where he goes crazy, (which also few can do) that his overall rate or efficiency is just that much better. Of course his eFG% is higher because of the 3-pt shooting but we also see a few times every game where Dame will come down and just jack up a step back shot with no rhythm from 26'.

Of course he needs better teammates so there isn't so much pressure on him but even when there is, if he is going to be taking a lot of shots that lead to those 6-18 stretches for the majority of the game, then he is playing right into the hands of the defense because that isn't winning many ball games.

 

[B-Roy]

or Curry.

Or Thompson.

Didn't Dragic shoot 50% or close to it a few years ago?

 

[Cippy91]

Oh look, another dame bashing thread. Over "Lillard time". Really? I don't see these threads ever when dame plays great. When he was averaging 30 carrying us to victories on a decent shooting percentage. Curry is the only point guard around damn near shooting 50 percent. What do you want from the guy like honestly. I swear these threads are like canzano articles, all you're missing in this is some tunchi.

 

[Cippy91]

If every guard got the screens he's allowed to get, the list might be longer.

Yeah seriously, draymond green sets the most illegal shit ever and it's just accepted at this point. Kind of like how James harden doesn't have to do jack shit just to get 10 or 11 free throws a game.

 

[dviss1]

Yeah seriously, draymond green sets the most illegal shit ever and it's just accepted at this point. Kind of like how James harden doesn't have to do jack shit just to get 10 or 11 free throws a game.

No. He does a lot. A lot of acting...

And the Oscar goes to...

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Well, we scored 111 points, so maybe our defense is a bigger problem (or was it that GS was able to set the pace?) Although I don't like the shots lillard takes sometimes, I think that might be only part of the problem, and might be due to the pressure he feels as some have pointed out. I guess I am concerned that our offense depends so much on the pick and roll (I have seen statistics showing we have one of the lowest passing rates in the league), and some teams have learned how to really break up this part of our game. Probably Stotts will try to broaden our offense eventually but this couldn't be done all at once with all the new players.

 

[B-Roy]

Well, we scored 111 points, so maybe our defense is a bigger problem (or was it that GS was able to set the pace?) Although I don't like the shots lillard takes sometimes, I think that might be only part of the problem, and might be due to the pressure he feels as some have pointed out. I guess I am concerned that our offense depends so much on the pick and roll (I have seen statistics showing we have one of the lowest passing rates in the league), and some teams have learned how to really break up this part of our game. Probably Stotts will try to broaden our offense eventually but this couldn't be done all at once with all the new players.

The problem is we have two guys on the team that can handle the ball. Two and a half if you count Henderson. Denying Lillard and McCollum on every possession means one of Plumlee/Hark/Aminu/Crabbe/Davis/Hendo has to make a play, and outside of Hendo sometimes, none of those guys really get their own shot. That issue is compounded when only one of the two guards are in the game.

Compare that to Golden State, who has Curry, Draymond, Iguodala, Livingston, and Thompson sometimes. Not to mention their role players being just better passers on average than Portland's role players.

Indeed our offense relies heavily on misdirection and quick pick and rolls. Sniff out the misdirection (Do you really think we're running a play to get Harkless an open shot?) and deny Lillard and McCollum the catch so they can't run PnRs.....mean's we're prone to droughts.

With that said, easier said than done. We're still the 6th best offense in the league despite having only two guys with an inch of offensive talent. But it does show you that we are quite a bit behind the true contenders both on offense and defense, but we knew that already.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The problem is we have two guys on the team that can handle the ball. Two and a half if you count Henderson. Denying Lillard and McCollum on every possession means one of Plumlee/Hark/Aminu/Crabbe/Davis/Hendo has to make a play, and outside of Hendo sometimes, none of those guys really get their own shot. That issue is compounded when only one of the two guards are in the game.

Compare that to Golden State, who has Curry, Draymond, Iguodala, Livingston, and Thompson sometimes. Not to mention their role players being just better passers on average than Portland's role players.

Indeed our offense relies heavily on misdirection and quick pick and rolls. Sniff out the misdirection (Do you really think we're running a play to get Harkless an open shot?) and deny Lillard and McCollum the catch so they can't run PnRs.....mean's we're prone to droughts.

With that said, easier said than done. We're still the 6th best offense in the league despite having only two guys with an inch of offensive talent. But it does show you that we are quite a bit behind the true contenders both on offense and defense, but we knew that already.

Curious. How many teams have more than 3 players that can truly get their own shot? I'm willing to bet most teams only really have a few and the rest are role players with specific skill sets meant to compliment those that can get their own shot.
Combine that with most people who can get their own shot, need the ball to be able to do so. That takes the ball away from CJ and Dame and Hendo.

Really. I don't think our offence is the issue. We are still learning and growing. The coach has been making changes when we get caught up.

We don't need another scorer as much as we need to be able to shut teams down when we need to.

 

[riverman]

Teams plan for us by throwing everything they've got at Dame..and he still manages to carry the team offensively most nights. His assists are way up this season and it's easy to criticize him after a game against Curry we lost, but Curry wasn't the player he has become at year 4 of his career. Dame keeps getting better, Curry has had longer to get better and had more injuries throughout his career than Dame. This thread is sort of leaning towards saying he's not Steph Curry...and yeah..at this point he's not. He is a great leader though and commands the respect of the best players in the league night in and night out.

 

[Tunchi]

Oh look, another dame bashing thread. Over "Lillard time". Really? I don't see these threads ever when dame plays great. When he was averaging 30 carrying us to victories on a decent shooting percentage. Curry is the only point guard around damn near shooting 50 percent. What do you want from the guy like honestly. I swear these threads are like canzano articles, all you're missing in this is some tunchi.

Man you are so emotional. All we are saying is we HATE when Lillard has these extended stretches of inefficient nights. Now 2-4 games is totally fine and understandable, but when they reach 8-10 games in a row thats when it gets super annoying.. Damn relax

 

[Orion Bailey]

Man you are so emotional. All we are saying is we HATE when Lillard has these extended stretches of inefficient nights. Now 2-4 games is totally fine and understandable, but when they reach 8-10 games in a row that's when it gets super annoying.. Damn relax

But just as much as I've been told that the constant homerism can get annoying. Some people have beyond kicked this dead horse... repeatedly. We all know it. Discussion has been played out. Everyone DOES need to relax and give Dame some time to now continue to improve. Sometimes it feels like when someone makes a critical post, they just assume because they see the potential problem and solution, its supposed ot take effect in the next game and be a success. Change, learning from mistakes, improvement... these all take time.
But yet in every loss that Dame has a mediocre game or ISN'T Lillard time, there is a new thread about his inefficiency. These threads FAR outnumber the threads created For Lillard time.
Gets pretty annoying to some of us....

Where is the thread for CJ going 6 for 6 from three????

Someone who doesn't care for my posts has said this place has gone to shit because of the Homerism. But maybe us Homers are simply trying to pull this forum out of the shit its been floating in from all the constant negative mindsets and discussions?

Just sayin. Its a two way street and I've been reading this forum for years. Its been mostly negativity and butt hurt girly posts with little recognition. Check history.

 

[B-Roy]

Curious. How many teams have more than 3 players that can truly get their own shot? I'm willing to bet most teams only really have a few and the rest are role players with specific skill sets meant to compliment those that can get their own shot.
Combine that with most people who can get their own shot, need the ball to be able to do so. That takes the ball away from CJ and Dame and Hendo.

Really. I don't think our offence is the issue. We are still learning and growing. The coach has been making changes when we get caught up.

We don't need another scorer as much as we need to be able to shut teams down when we need to.

Not just being able to get their own shot, but to be able to handle the ball and make plays. We have two and a half players that are playmaking threats. The rest can't really dribble at all.

 

[illmatic99]

#LillardTime is one of the most amazing, entertaining shows in the NBA. When Dame is hot, maybe only Steph Curry can match him shot for shot.

However, for every brief stretch of #LillardTime, there are even longer stretches of non-Lillard Time either because he is not shooting well or like tonight, just when he is not on the floor.

In the 3rd quarter, Dame went mano-a-mano with Curry and was 7-9 from the field and torching the net. By contrast, for the rest of the game he was 6-18 which is on the very south side of efficient. Then when Dame was off the court, the Blazers were brutal. CJ was a -25 which means when CJ wasn't on the court, the Blazers played the Warriors dead even. Now this is not knock on CJ...he just had a very good game again Boston. It is more of a commentary on what happens when Dame isn't hot.

We've talked about this before but it seems to be happening more and more often. There is a brief scorching hot-streak surround by less than mediocre shooting which for the game has resulted in Dame shooting over 50% just 4 times in the last 35 games.

FOUR in 35 games.....that isn't an just an aberration. For all of the red-hot streaks, there hasn't been enough to offset the rest of that poor shooting. You would think a player of Dame's caliber would accidentally fall into an over 50% more often even against a very bad game but it just isn't happening.

It's not that he is going to stay #LillardTime hot all game but if he could just be 8-18 in non-Lillard time instead of 6-18 that would be a big difference. I get that he has a lot to shoulder and tonight without him, the Blazers weren't close to being in the same class as the Warriors.

Better shots, better decisions and leave the heat check to when you are IN LillardTime and not out of it. If he can do that, he will get closer to the type of efficiency that Curry has that makes him so ridiculously tough to guard.

This isn't really anything new. When Dame gets hot, he gets RED HOT. When he's cold, he's ice cold. It's been this way since his rookie year. However, the 5-19, 3-16 nights are coming way too often recently, and it's probably a direct function of his fatigue.

His %'s this year are around where he's been all his career. The lack of offensive talent on this team has been beaten to death, and given the personnel, our best shot to win some of these games against top competition is to let Dame do his thing and hope he catches fire. This is fine for now because we have no alternatives. The shot selection and his %'s won't increase unless he gets better teammates.

He's improved his decision making a bit from the beginning of the season to now. He's clearly trusting guys like Davis/Plums/Aminu/etc to do something when he's trapped. Get him another capable scorer, and I'm sure his efficiency will improve.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Curious. How many teams have more than 3 players that can truly get their own shot? I'm willing to bet most teams only really have a few and the rest are role players with specific skill sets meant to compliment those that can get their own shot.

Yes, and the ones that do have 3+ players who can make their own shot are the best in the league. We should probably get one or two more if we want to be one of those teams.

Klay, Curry, Iggy, Barnes.

CP3, Blake, Crawford

Leonard, Parker, Ginobli

Durant, Westbrook, Waiters

 

[TBpup]

Oh look, another dame bashing thread. Over "Lillard time". Really? I don't see these threads ever when dame plays great. When he was averaging 30 carrying us to victories on a decent shooting percentage. Curry is the only point guard around damn near shooting 50 percent. What do you want from the guy like honestly. I swear these threads are like canzano articles, all you're missing in this is some tunchi.

If you think this is "bashing", perhaps a refresher in what that word actually means is in order. Dame has been very good this year but how is it bashing to discuss things that can still be improved? Then again, some people are offended but almost anything so I suppose that shouldn't come as a surprise. I've complimented Dame over and over on the things he has improved on but to wear rose-colored glasses and to say this is as good as it gets and not try to improve further seems quite near-sighted.

 

[B-Roy]

Yes, and the ones that do have 3+ players who can make their own shot are the best in the league. We should probably get one or two more if we want to be one of those teams.

Klay, Curry, Iggy, Barnes.

CP3, Blake, Crawford

Leonard, Parker, Ginobli

Durant, Westbrook, Waiters

I would like to add, if you want to contend, you should be comparing yourself to the top teams. It doesn't matter how many shot creators Denver or Minnesota has, because they are not in the playoffs, and aren't close to being good anyways.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

This is just a flawed conclusion formed from an arbitrary sample duration. For the game he was 13/27, 48%.

 

[illmatic99]

If you think this is "bashing", perhaps a refresher in what that word actually means is in order. Dame has been very good this year but how is it bashing to discuss things that can still be improved? Then again, some people are offended but almost anything so I suppose that shouldn't come as a surprise. I've complimented Dame over and over on the things he has improved on but to wear rose-colored glasses and to say this is as good as it gets and not try to improve further seems quite near-sighted.

You can't even suggest that Dame should play better here. Didn't you know? No matter how many stats you dig up, you will get called a basher and have your fandom questioned.

 

[illmatic99]

Check this out. Curry is just ridiculous.

http://bkref.com/tiny/8HRZv

It seems like there's a pretty clear distinction in PGs after CP. It's Steph/Russ/CP in tier 1. Dame/Lowry in tier 2, but guys like Thomas and Kemba have improved to get very close to that second tier and I think Dame this year will end up closer to the other guys than tier 1.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

The logical end of this argument is him being judged on the shooting percentage of each shot he takes. 100% or 0%.

From one shot to the next, he is the best player in the history of the NBA, or he is the worst player in the history of the NBA.

 

[riverman]

You can't even suggest that Dame should play better here. Didn't you know? No matter how many stats you dig up, you will get called a basher and have your fandom questioned.

nah...that's a stretch...I think Tpup is a bright guy who knows hoops pretty well...but tends to see more optimistic takes as being somehow unrealistic. Stats have value...I've never put a lot of importance on the numbers other than the final score of a game. Dame can improve defensively and offensively. He's given me no reason to think he won't. I really dislike the term Homer because it has the stigma of being a fan who has a shallow view of the team. I've been bashed for being an optimist way more than Dame has been bashed for his shooting percentage. To me the eternal pessimists sort of suck the joy out of the season. I learn a lot from guys like Tpup without needing to really feel like their views are bullshit....that door should swing both ways

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not just being able to get their own shot, but to be able to handle the ball and make plays. We have two and a half players that are playmaking threats. The rest can't really dribble at all.

Not true. Plums can dribble. One of the best dribbling bigs in the NBA. Crabbe can dribble some. Harkless can dribble some. I expect Hark, Plums and Crabbe to continue to improve this about thier game. Where does that then put us?

Yes, and the ones that do have 3+ players who can make their own shot are the best in the league. We should probably get one or two more if we want to be one of those teams.

Klay, Curry, Iggy, Barnes.

CP3, Blake, Crawford

Leonard, Parker, Ginobli

Durant, Westbrook, Waiters

Good examples, but we already have 2.5 who can and a couple guys who can still improve to that ( dribbling).

Im not concerned like most around here. Just like I wasn't concerned when people thought AMinu was a huge drop off from Nic....