Lillard Time vs NLT

[TBpup]

Great game from CJ and Harkless to carry the Blazers.

Dame never entered #LillardTime and finished 6-19 (.316 FG%) and again took some shots that leaves you shaking your head. Even the beat writers were commenting on it during the game. One was a '3'-pt attempt when he was 1-6....he took a step-back 28'er over Cousins. Then latter in the 4th, fresh off the bench, the first time he touches the ball he jacks up a DEEP '3' when he wasn't in rhythm, was ice-cold both for the night and from just getting in the game. It's those shots I'd like to see him eliminate.

 

[e_blazer]

Great game from CJ and Harkless to carry the Blazers.

Dame never entered #LillardTime and finished 6-19 (.316 FG%) and again took some shots that leaves you shaking your head. Even the beat writers were commenting on it during the game. One was a '3'-pt attempt when he was 1-6....he took a step-back 28'er over Cousins. Then latter in the 4th, fresh off the bench, the first time he touches the ball he jacks up a DEEP '3' when he wasn't in rhythm, was ice-cold both for the night and from just getting in the game. It's those shots I'd like to see him eliminate.

Not sure you can have one without the other. It seems to me that Dame feeds off hitting some of those "what the hell are you thinking" shots. When they go down, Lillard Time kicks into high gear. Yeah, there are nights when the magic isn't there, but a few of those attempts a game, even if missed, are small payment for the times when it's all working.

 

[Tunchi]

Great game from CJ and Harkless to carry the Blazers.

Dame never entered #LillardTime and finished 6-19 (.316 FG%) and again took some shots that leaves you shaking your head. Even the beat writers were commenting on it during the game. One was a '3'-pt attempt when he was 1-6....he took a step-back 28'er over Cousins. Then latter in the 4th, fresh off the bench, the first time he touches the ball he jacks up a DEEP '3' when he wasn't in rhythm, was ice-cold both for the night and from just getting in the game. It's those shots I'd like to see him eliminate.

I agree

 

[TBpup]

Not sure you can have one without the other. It seems to me that Dame feeds off hitting some of those "what the hell are you thinking" shots. When they go down, Lillard Time kicks into high gear. Yeah, there are nights when the magic isn't there, but a few of those attempts a game, even if missed, are small payment for the times when it's all working.

Usually when he hits those, he is in the middle of #LillardTime and that's not usually how he starts it. Once he is in the middle of a hot streak, those shots tend to go in more often. When he is out of #LillardTime, those shots very rarely go in.

 

[e_blazer]

Usually when he hits those, he is in the middle of #LillardTime and that's not usually how he starts it. Once he is in the middle of a hot streak, those shots tend to go in more often. When he is out of #LillardTime, those shots very rarely go in.

Not sure that's right. Seems to me that he often starts a run with a made long 3, but it would be an interesting study.

 

[TBpup]

The beat writers were tweeting it out during the game and on Talkin' Ball, they also mentioned Dame's poor shot selection. Sometimes, you're just going to have a bad shooting game....that's life in the NBA. It's more the types of shots Dame is taking when he isn't shooting well. When he is in a rhythm, he can take almost any shot and it will go in. It is incredible to watch and something few others in the NBA can do. However, when he's not on a hot streak, step back 28'ers, floating sideways 20'ers against 2 defenders when there is a wide open Gerald Henderson one simple pass away from you are not good shots and not usually the way to get yourself going.

Attack the basket, get the foul line, build a rhythm if after the first 2 or 3 shots you can tell it's not starting well. Players know when they are feeling it or not. That doesn't mean stop shooting....the only way to get out of a rough patch is to keep shooting. It's just to do so taking better shots and let the difficult ones and then 'heat checks' come after you are on a roll.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I saw CJ trake two bad shots. I saw Aminu take a bad shot. I saw Harkless take a bad shot. I saw Crabbe and Hendo each take a bad shot.

No player in the NBA is ONLY going to take "Good" shots.
Not when they are a shooter.
MJ took plenty of bad shots.
Curry takes tons of bad shots.

They are only bad when they don't go in, but when they do, its good. Yep. Cant have it both ways.

 

[TBpup]

I saw CJ trake two bad shots. I saw Aminu take a bad shot. I saw Harkless take a bad shot. I saw Crabbe and Hendo each take a bad shot.

No player in the NBA is ONLY going to take "Good" shots.

Yes but if you've been reading, you'll see I'm addressing 'WHEN' they take those bad shots as much as the shots themselves. CJ was on a roll last night so a heat check or a tough shot isn't out of reason whatesover. Curry is shooting a ridiculously much higher eFG% than Dame so to him a 'bad shot' has a much higher chance of going in. I could reiterate the whole point but it's posted above.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yes but if you've been reading, you'll see I'm addressing 'WHEN' they take those bad shots as much as the shots themselves. CJ was on a roll last night so a heat check or a tough shot isn't out of reason whatesover. Curry is shooting a ridiculously much higher eFG% than Dame so to him a 'bad shot' has a much higher chance of going in. I could reiterate the whole point but it's posted above.

I just think that if he makes these then there is no conversation to be had. Cant raise your FG% if you dont keep shooting and you cant get out of a "slump" if you don't keep shooting.
Its gonna keep happening is all i'm trying to point out. And it happens to the best of them. Curry looked like crap last night. He too bad shots. If that happens for a few games then that somewhat legitimizes Dames shots?
I don't disagree with you, I just don't think its a concern as he and this team continue to grow, I think he will improve, but will never be perfect.

 

[TBpup]

I just think that if he makes these then there is no conversation to be had. Cant raise your FG% if you dont keep shooting and you cant get out of a "slump" if you don't keep shooting.
Its gonna keep happening is all i'm trying to point out. And it happens to the best of them. Curry looked like crap last night. He too bad shots. If that happens for a few games then that somewhat legitimizes Dames shots?
I don't disagree with you, I just don't think its a concern as he and this team continue to grow, I think he will improve, but will never be perfect.

And I addressed the 'keep shooting' part but hoping there is an attempt to do so in a more efficient manner until he gets on a role. Twice you've brought up Curry and he has a poor shooting game last night but you must know I'm talking much more big picture here. I went back and looked at Dame's season and previous years. This is not a one time occurrence in the least but instead a fairly regular delineation between #LillardTime and non-Lillard Time. Curry by comparison has at his LOWEST, a TS% of .589 in the last 6 years. Dame's HIGHEST TS% is .568 in his 2nd season. This year Curry is at a whopping .669 compared to Damian's .560. I would say that allows Curry a few more 'bad shots', heat checks or whatever he wants to through up as effectively he is getting points from over 2/3's of his shots.

Curry is effectively shooting 17% better than Dame and if Dame were shooting anywhere near that rate, this wouldn't even be a salient point. For comparison, Curry is shooting .456 from '3' while Dame is shooting .420 overall. That is an insane difference. You would expect Dame's numbers to get a little better with more talent but they are fairly similar throughout his career so far with veteran talent or fresh faces everywhere.

All I'm hoping for is that the 'lows' be not quite so low so that his overall percentage can be higher and when a hot streak comes, it is elevating his overall game versus just digging out from a percentage hole.

 

[Tunchi]

This is what I been trying to tell folks around here about Lillard. Great player, even better leader but the dude is incredibly too streaky to really put him on the Curry, CP3, Westbrook levels

 

[Tunchi]

And I addressed the 'keep shooting' part but hoping there is an attempt to do so in a more efficient manner until he gets on a role. Twice you've brought up Curry and he has a poor shooting game last night but you must know I'm talking much more big picture here. I went back and looked at Dame's season and previous years. This is not a one time occurrence in the least but instead a fairly regular delineation between #LillardTime and non-Lillard Time. Curry by comparison has at his LOWEST, a TS% of .589 in the last 6 years. Dame's HIGHEST TS% is .568 in his 2nd season. This year Curry is at a whopping .669 compared to Damian's .560. I would say that allows Curry a few more 'bad shots', heat checks or whatever he wants to through up as effectively he is getting points from over 2/3's of his shots.

Curry is effectively shooting 17% better than Dame and if Dame were shooting anywhere near that rate, this wouldn't even be a salient point. For comparison, Curry is shooting .456 from '3' while Dame is shooting .420 overall. That is an insane difference. You would expect Dame's numbers to get a little better with more talent but they are fairly similar throughout his career so far with veteran talent or fresh faces everywhere.

All I'm hoping for is that the 'lows' be not quite so low so that his overall percentage can be higher and when a hot streak comes, it is elevating his overall game versus just digging out from a percentage hole.

I think its fair to say Dame should never, ever be in the same breath as the great Steph Curry. Thats not fair at all

 

[e_blazer]

I think its fair to say Dame should never, ever be in the same breath as the great Steph Curry. Thats not fair at all

Well I guess I'll just be not fair then.

In 4 head-to-head matchups this season, Lillard outscored the great Step Curry a combined 146 pts. (36.5 ppg) to 130 pts. (32.5 ppg). This despite the fact that the Warriors have a better defense and on the offensive end have two more All-Star scoring threats for Blazers to have to devote defensive energy to covering.

You're right. It's not a fair comparison at all.

 

[Orion Bailey]

And I addressed the 'keep shooting' part but hoping there is an attempt to do so in a more efficient manner until he gets on a role. Twice you've brought up Curry and he has a poor shooting game last night but you must know I'm talking much more big picture here. I went back and looked at Dame's season and previous years. This is not a one time occurrence in the least but instead a fairly regular delineation between #LillardTime and non-Lillard Time. Curry by comparison has at his LOWEST, a TS% of .589 in the last 6 years. Dame's HIGHEST TS% is .568 in his 2nd season. This year Curry is at a whopping .669 compared to Damian's .560. I would say that allows Curry a few more 'bad shots', heat checks or whatever he wants to through up as effectively he is getting points from over 2/3's of his shots.

Curry is effectively shooting 17% better than Dame and if Dame were shooting anywhere near that rate, this wouldn't even be a salient point. For comparison, Curry is shooting .456 from '3' while Dame is shooting .420 overall. That is an insane difference. You would expect Dame's numbers to get a little better with more talent but they are fairly similar throughout his career so far with veteran talent or fresh faces everywhere.

All I'm hoping for is that the 'lows' be not quite so low so that his overall percentage can be higher and when a hot streak comes, it is elevating his overall game versus just digging out from a percentage hole.

Geez guys. No one will be Curry because Curry is Curry. No one will be MJ because only MJ is MJ. And Dame will only be Dame. You gfuys are expecting him to be someone else. The sooner you come to the understanding that Dame is what he is and he may improve, but to say he needs to be on the same level as CP3 and Curry for us to win is falable and im not buying it.

Dame is also how many less years in the league than Westbrook and Curry? Was Westbrook putting up trip dubs his first 3 years in the league?

Dame has improved every year and I have no reason to believe he wont continue to improve... and if he never improves enough to end the "streakiness", im fine with that too.

Not everyone can be a God. There is only one. But that doesn't mean there aren't alot of Angel warriors that can still win in the big picture.

THATS the big picture.
Dame can be who he is and we can still win. We just need to provide the right surroundings.
Again. Do I disagree with you? No. Am I concerned? No. Would I like to see what you want to see? Yes. Do I think its critical? No.

 

[TBpup]

Since this is more about overall shooting percentages, let's look at the last 2 years of head-to head match-ups. Dame obviously had more support last season and was leaned on for more offense this season.

April 5, 2016 - Dame 13-27.....Curry 13-21
Mar 11, 2016 - Dame 5-19.......Curry 13-23
Feb 19, 2016 - Dame 18-28.....Curry 12-23
Jan 8, 2016 -- Dame 12-27......Curry 8-18

April 9, 2016- Dame 9-22.......Curry 17-23
Mar 24, 2015- Dame 9-21.......Curry 13-22
Nov 2, 2014- Damian 4-18......Curry 6-18


That is .419 shooting for Dame (remarkably close to the .420 he is shooting this season) and .554 for Curry which is almost 10% higher than the .502 he is shooting this season and 25% higher shooting than Dame in those meetings. We all remember the #LillardTime outburst game that occurred on Feb 19 and that was incredible to watch but it still comes down to .419 shooting over two seasons of those match-ups which is very close to the over all numbers of his career.

This is not to take away from Dame as a leader, as a clutch player or from any other of the intangibles that he brings to the court. But now we are looking at a much bigger picture of what happens in non-#LillardTime.

And I was NOT the person that invited the Steph Curry comparison. That was merely addressing your point. OB...you seem to be taking some short cuts today.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Since this is more about overall shooting percentages, let's look at the last 2 years of head-to head match-ups. Dame obviously had more support last season and was leaned on for more offense this season.

April 5, 2016 - Dame 13-27.....Curry 13-21
Mar 11, 2016 - Dame 5-19.......Curry 13-23
Feb 19, 2016 - Dame 18-28.....Curry 12-23
Jan 8, 2016 -- Dame 12-27......Curry 8-18

April 9, 2016- Dame 9-22.......Curry 17-23
Mar 24, 2015- Dame 9-21.......Curry 13-22
Nov 2, 2014- Damian 4-18......Curry 6-18


That is .419 shooting for Dame (remarkably close to the .420 he is shooting this season) and .554 for Curry which is almost 10% higher than the .502 he is shooting this season and 25% higher shooting than Dame in those meetings. We all remember the #LillardTime outburst game that occurred on Feb 19 and that was incredible to watch but it still comes down to .419 shooting over two seasons of those match-ups which is very close to the over all numbers of his career.

This is not to take away from Dame as a leader, as a clutch player or from any other of the intangibles that he brings to the court. But now we are looking at a much bigger picture of what happens in non-#LillardTime.

And I was NOT the person that invited the Steph Curry comparison. That was merely addressing your point. OB...you seem to be taking some short cuts today.

I brought up Curry, because currently he is the best shooter in the league and possibly best ever, so he is the standard to go by Im thinking...
But your right, im probably still high on last nights win.

 

[e_blazer]

Curry is in a class by himself as a shooter. That said, when looking at percentages you do at least have to recognize that teams aren't able to give Curry the same defensive pressure that Dame gets simply because he's got Green and Thompson that are also demanding serious attention. The Warriors' bigs are also much more adept at setting screens to get Curry room to shoot than the Blazers bigs are. I'd love to see Dame's shooting percentage go up, too, and I suspect it will when his teammates up their games a notch or two or are replaced by other players that are better.

 

[Tunchi]

PERCENTAGES is a huge indication imo between great players. Thats the stick I measure Lillard with.. Lillard is hovering around 41% right now. Hes currently shooting the worst percentage of his career this season. If this slump continues this week it can easily be close to 39% which is BAD

 

[e_blazer]

PERCENTAGES is a huge indication imo between great players. Thats the stick I measure Lillard with.. Lillard is hovering around 41% right now. Hes currently shooting the worst percentage of his career this season. If this slump continues this week it can easily be close to 39% which is BAD

Which totally supports the point I made about the quality of his teammates. Without Aldridge, Matthews and Batum, Lillard has much more pressure on him than he's ever had before. His percentages will go back up when the rest of the team can carry a bigger load.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Which totally supports the point I made about the quality of his teammates. Without Aldridge, Matthews and Batum, Lillard has much more pressure on him than he's ever had before. His percentages will go back up when the rest of the team can carry a bigger load.

Right. All this focus on Dame's shooting when it should be focused on the help or lack of, he gets.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I will add that I didnt think we needed a third scorer, but now I do. Not to score more, but to make it easier for Dame to score.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I will add that I didnt think we needed a third scorer, but now I do. Not to score more, but to make it easier for Dame to score.

Harkless appears to be trying to earn that third scorer mantle with his play of late. I definitely think we can add another effective scorer in FA as well (Marvin Williams is my current flavor of the week). However, I think Dame also needs to change his mindset away from viewing himself as the best scoring option. The more he continues to increase his tendency to find teammates in scoring situations, the more likely he will be to find himself in improved scoring situations. I fully believe we'll be a better team overall with Dame putting up 20 & 9 than 24 & 6.

 

[Tunchi]

Which totally supports the point I made about the quality of his teammates. Without Aldridge, Matthews and Batum, Lillard has much more pressure on him than he's ever had before. His percentages will go back up when the rest of the team can carry a bigger load.

Then let cj shoot more

 

[Tunchi]

Harkless appears to be trying to earn that third scorer mantle with his play of late. I definitely think we can add another effective scorer in FA as well (Marvin Williams is my current flavor of the week). However, I think Dame also needs to change his mindset away from viewing himself as the best scoring option. The more he continues to increase his tendency to find teammates in scoring situations, the more likely he will be to find himself in improved scoring situations. I fully believe we'll be a better team overall with Dame putting up 20 & 9 than 24 & 6.

EXACTLY

I been saying the same thing. I want him to avg 19-20ppg but close to 10 dimes a game and much better efficiency

 

[e_blazer]

Then let cj shoot more

CJ had 20 shots last night to Lillard's 19.

 

[e_blazer]

Harkless appears to be trying to earn that third scorer mantle with his play of late. I definitely think we can add another effective scorer in FA as well (Marvin Williams is my current flavor of the week). However, I think Dame also needs to change his mindset away from viewing himself as the best scoring option. The more he continues to increase his tendency to find teammates in scoring situations, the more likely he will be to find himself in improved scoring situations. I fully believe we'll be a better team overall with Dame putting up 20 & 9 than 24 & 6.

I'm sure that he'd agree with you that this is the goal. The Blazers are a work in progress. Better players need to be added and existing players need to grow. As that happens, he's going to be able to share the scoring load. That said, for Dame to have lead this team to the position it's at this year, complaining about shooting percentages seems to me kind of like complaining about some of the brush strokes on the Sistine Chapel's ceiling.

 

[B-Roy]

CJ had 20 shots last night to Lillard's 19.

McCollum averages 18 shots per game, Lillard averages 20, but uses more possessions as evidenced by averaging twice as many free throws.

I think CJ picks his spots a bit better, and the shots he takes are generally better. Of course that also leads to possessions where he dribbles the air out of the ball because he can't find anything, but overall I think CJ has better shot selection than Lillard and that's evidenced by his percentages.

Should he be taking some possessions from Lillard? I think that's a valid debate but the counter argument is that Dame is better at creating plays for others and not just himself.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

McCollum averages 18 shots per game, Lillard averages 20, but uses more possessions as evidenced by averaging twice as many free throws.

I think CJ picks his spots a bit better, and the shots he takes are generally better. Of course that also leads to possessions where he dribbles the air out of the ball because he can't find anything, but overall I think CJ has better shot selection than Lillard and that's evidenced by his percentages.

Should he be taking some possessions from Lillard? I think that's a valid debate but the counter argument is that Dame is better at creating plays for others and not just himself.

IMO, that's beyond dispute, but also goes hand-in-hand with what others are saying. If I were to put numbers on it, Dame is basically 65% PG, and CJ is barely 20% PG. Dame can create for others, and should continue to do so, but just a little bit more often than he currently does. CJ is much better off the ball than Dame is, but he obviously has the ability to break his man down off the dribble very well. When he does however, he's going to the rim, and he should; when he plays PG, he much too often dribbles into traps or corners, and the flow offense stagnates. As he continues to grow in his game, CJ's going to get better at finishing at the rim as well as at drawing fouls, and then he will be the undisputed #1 scoring option on this team. I think CJ is still trying, more or less, to defer offensively to his overall-more-talented teammate, but I think the team would be better as a whole if Dame and CJ both honestly acknowledged which of the two is actually the better scorer.

 

[blue9]

Two things that have been mentioned that stick out to me:

1 - Fatigue. I think this is the primary issue at this point in the season. Would be nice to have a good back-up so we can decrease Dame's MPG a bit.
2 - A third scorer. Makes things easier for everyone.

A lot of people are focusing on PF/C to address the "third scorer" issue. I get it - it helps balance the roster. But what about Derrick Rose? Seems like CHI is about done with him. Also, seems like his body is about done with him! Bringing him in could address both items 1 and 2 - he could quite easily be our 3rd leading scorer, and he'd allow Dame more time to rest so that he can play at a high level throughout the course of the season. Also, because Rose's body is failing him, coming off the bench in a supporting role could help extend his career and make him relevant again.

I can't imagine that CHI is going to get much in return for Rose at this point in his career, so the worries of "it'll take CJ to complete the trade" don't apply. I'm not really sure what CHI needs, or how sign/trades work these days, but maybe something built around Aminu's value contract plus a re-signed Crabbe or Meyers and future considerations?

 

[illmatic99]

His shot selection has been shit, but he looks clearly fatigued. Not benching him for the game in GS was annoying, but understandable.

If we win these next two, we might have a legit shot at locking up the 5th seed by the weekend, given MEM loses as expected. That would make our game on Wed against DEN meaningless. If so, Dame and CJ could be rested for a whole week before the playoffs. Given how well Dame has done with rest, that is exactly what we need.