Lillard's invisible performance

[Orion Bailey]

Shooting percentages don't necessarily have anything to do with shot selection. How many of Dame's shots are bad shots? He missed a few wide open layups the other night. Are those bad shots? Was that a bad shot selection? Correlation is not causation. You assumed that one was related to the other, and I was merely pointing out that if you're unhappy with Lillard, there are other star point guards who are struggling worse. Maybe you don't find comfort in that, maybe you do, I really don't care.

For me, personally, it makes me feel better when I look at Lowry or Thomas and see a guy playing worse than Dame against a much less difficult defense. It tells me that Dame is doing pretty well, all things considered. My post was pretty benign, but you decided to take it as an attack on your point. I guess that's your prerogative.

Nate, I got ya 100%. Not sure why others didnt get the comparison as a way to feel better about Lillard. Nothing more, nothing less. Some people like to eat apart every little word and blow it up out of context or make it literal. It happens to me all the time. Stren called me out because I said we owned the Clippers. Wrong choice of words, but is it really the subject of debate?

Some people are focusing on the fact that you chose a non Blazer to pay attention to. Had nothing to do with that other than to feel better overall about Lillard's game.

Comparison's are a part of life. Its the best way to truly assess how good one is. We are human. No one is going to go 100% most of the time or even part of the time. So to compare Lillard with other players of the same position is perfectly fine and basically the best way to see how well Lillard is ACTUALLY playing.

 

[H.C.]

People complaining about Lillard should take a look at Kyle Lowry.

That dude is shooting 31.4% from the field, and 18.8% from three for the series. What's his excuse? The Pacers don't have Chris Paul.

I actually thought this was a perfect comparison.
If anyone has watched Geko's vs Pacers series it's clearly obvious how horrible Lowry is playing.
He's hurting his team with not only shot selection but turnovers at bad times, bad shot attempts that lead to layups for the Pacers. Ball stopping when there is another player who is hot. Three or four times when DeRozan was going Lowry kept the ball for the whole possession leading to him bricking it in game 5.
Lowry isn't even getting trapped on the pick and roll in this series. George Hill is just taking it to him, and he has no elite rim defender backing him up.
Shows exactly how much worse a player can play in the playoffs. Lillard needs to play better, but he certainly could play much worse.

 

[Natebishop3]

I actually thought this was a perfect comparison.
If anyone has watched Geko's vs Pacers series it's clearly obvious how horrible Lowry is playing.
He's hurting his team with not only shot selection but turnovers at bad times, bad shot attempts that lead to layups for the Pacers. Ball stopping when there is another player who is hot. Three or four times when DeRozan was going Lowry kept the ball for the whole possession leading to him bricking it in game 5.
Lowry isn't even getting trapped on the pick and roll in this series. George Hill is just taking it to him, and he has no elite rim defender backing him up.
Shows exactly how much worse a player can play in the playoffs. Lillard needs to play better, but he certainly could play much worse.

Did you see Isaiah Thomas last night? Holy crap he was playing like total garbage.

 

[H.C.]

Did you see Isaiah Thomas last night? Holy crap he was playing like total garbage.

Unfortunately I had a class so I didn't get a chance to watch most of that game. I have seen his other games though. Smart has been saving them.

 

[handiman]

Only one of those games had Lillard below 20 points or below 40% from the field--the 1-10 game on 12/12. I'd say he was "pretty effective" in that one game, and average at best defensively in the other 3. Oh, the one game that Beverly was so great in--Dame was +20. Oddly enough, that was the only game of the 4 that we actually won.

That's a bunch of confusing cause & effect stats, to be sure, but I'd call a couple of 7-17 games pretty effective defense on one of the best scoring PGs in the league.

41%, 10%, 41%, 53%
Not bad just saying.
Actually I thought my post helped you because I included turnovers for you.
One could make the argument that all those turnovers were because of Beverly bothering Lillard.
But all in all if shooting % is the only thing you go by I refer you to a previous post.
What does it look like when Lillard has a bad game? 1-10 is pretty bad, but 40%+ shooting isn't really "giving a player trouble.
44% from the field if you take out the 1-10, which I would I mean... Every player has an off night. Says more about Lillard struggling in a single game than Beverly shutting him down if you look at the whole of regular season games that year.

You can't discount the 1-10 as an off-night without throwing out the one good shooting night against Beverly, also. Do you always cherry pick favorable stats like this? It's either 39% (all 4 games) or 41% (removing the two outliers) by any reasonable standard of analysis, both of which are indicative of pretty good defense.

CP3 however is holding Lillard to 36% shooting over 4 games. That to me is what it looks like when a player stops another player.

And 36% is significantly different from 38.5%?

Having a good defensive game or two over 2-3 years isn't.

You keep harping on the last two years as somehow indicative of the defender Beverly was prior to the injury leading into the Houston series. That makes no sense.

If you choose to post again talk about basketball.
Stop with the unnecessary stuff.

Say what? I called your rather feeble bluff, but we weren't talking about anything other than basketball. Go Blazers.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

That's a bunch of confusing cause & effect stats, to be sure, but I'd call a couple of 7-17 games pretty effective defense on one of the best scoring PGs in the league.

21.5 points on 17 fga equates to 1.27 points per shot. In 2013-14, Lillard averaged 20.9 ppg on 15.9 shots, or 1.30 ppg. So Beverly's "pretty effective defense" held Lillard to...basically his season average.

Not.
Swayed.

 

[H.C.]

That's a bunch of confusing cause & effect stats, to be sure, but I'd call a couple of 7-17 games pretty effective defense on one of the best scoring PGs in the league.
You can't discount the 1-10 as an off-night without throwing out the one good shooting night against Beverly, also. Do you always cherry pick favorable stats like this? It's either 39% (all 4 games) or 41% (removing the two outliers) by any reasonable standard of analysis, both of which are indicative of pretty good defense.
And 36% is significantly different from 38.5%?
You keep harping on the last two years as somehow indicative of the defender Beverly was prior to the injury leading into the Houston series. That makes no sense.
Say what? I called your rather feeble bluff, but we weren't talking about anything other than basketball. Go Blazers.

It's not confusing at all.
It just disproves your point so you're trying to omit stats.
Where I have brought up everything, even shooting % & turnovers.

You keep saying I'm cherry picking stats.
When you want to talk about one season only before Beverly's devastating Meniscus injury in 2014..
Which really only shows one game where he forced Lillard below his averages.
I would also point out to you that Beverly after his Meniscus injury, had a better defensive season in 2015. Than he did in 2014 according to the stats.
(which is what this whole thing is about... stats)
If you want to take out the good game fine. Lillard then shoots still over 40% vs Beverly in the 2014 regular season.
Not counting the playoff series that you wish to leave out.
Not counting any other season, that once again... You wish to leave out.
http://www.basketball-reference.com...everpa01&y2=2009&p2=gibsoda01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=
I think this says everything anyone needs to know about how good of a defender Beverly is.
As well as how much better the Rockets could do at their starting PG position.

I have no feeble bluff, and I'm not cherry picking.
The stats clearly show Beverly is far from a good defender..
It shows over the course of 3 seasons how ineffective he's been at guarding Lillard outside of two games.
Harping on two games and saying someone is cherry picking. Entertaining.
I can't believe because of two games you're trying to say Beverly is on par with Conley or Paul in terms of defending Lillard...
But I'm not going to get into that.

There is no reason to continue this. You're clearly ignoring things to make your point seem more valid.. And you didn't try to bring up turnovers....
Then adding additional descriptive words that are unnecessary.
The ignore list grows. 2x different threads, same stuff.

Have a nice day.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Bump.

The way he is playing he ought to lose his signature shoe.

He has no business having his own shoe.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Outside his game winner against Houston he has been very underwhelming to say the least. This is the franchise player and how far this team goes is ALL on his shoulders.

He's on a steady decline:

PER: 19.3 | 15.0 | 13.5

TS%: 58% | 49.1% | 49.0%

3P%: 39% | 16% | 26%

FG: 44% | 40% | 36%

DBPM: 0.9 | -0.2 | -0.5

WS: 1.3 | 0.2 | 0.1

All of his numbers have dropped as his USG% went up.

 

[maxiep]

Yeah, it's not like Doc Rivers' entire strategy is to make someone other than Lillard beat them.

 

[Sinobas]

But, but...he's playing against the best defensive PGs in the league....tonight he's being shut down by all-nba defender Austin Rivers.

 

[MickZagger]

Yeah, it's not like Doc Rivers' entire strategy is to make someone other than Lillard beat them.

Lillard needs to take advantage of the double they're bringing up top. There's other options besides trying to split it and fumbling all over yourself. He needs to play off ball, have CJ run the point.

 

[Natebishop3]

But, but...he's playing against the best defensive PGs in the league....tonight he's being shut down by all-nba defender Austin Rivers.

Well, if the refs are going to give Rivers and Prigioni the same All-Star treatment they give Paul, it makes things a little more difficult. Prigioni is holding Lillard with two fucking hands whenever he is guarding him.

 

[blazerboy30]

Lowry is shooting 36.1% in the layoffs.

 

[Natebishop3]

Lowry is shooting 36.1% in the layoffs.

Which layoffs? The Intel layoffs?

 

[KeepOnRollin]

He can be a scrub all he wants if it lets us advance. The true leaders get their teams to the next round and he has and will do that better than Roy.

 

[blazerboy30]

Which layoffs? The Intel layoffs?

You're the Lowry shooting percentage expert...

 

[Strenuus]

lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.

 

[illmatic99]

It's the shot selection that bugs the hell out of me. He's clearly being hounded.

Pass the fucking ball instead of taking contested 28 foot jumpshots with 2 guys on you. With his shit defense, he can't be this garbage on offense.

 

[HailBlazers]

It's the shot selection that bugs the hell out of me. He's clearly being hounded.

Pass the fucking ball instead of taking contested 28 foot jumpshots with 2 guys on you. With his shit defense, he can't be this garbage on offense.

his mistake just led the comeback for the Clips. Gotta play smarter Dame.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

It's the shot selection that bugs the hell out of me. He's clearly being hounded.

Pass the fucking ball instead of taking contested 28 foot jumpshots with 2 guys on you. With his shit defense, he can't be this garbage on offense.

Exactly. He needs to pick a struggle.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Lillard has 16pts in the 4th qrt. Damn he sucks!

 

[Strenuus]

Well he was invisible in the 4th.

Clippers couldn't find him.

 

[Natebishop3]

He shot 35%.... fucking scrub.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Wow 9 pages for this thread. I didn't think it would go 2.

 

[Strenuus]

Wow 9 pages for this thread. I didn't think it would go 2.

uhh... why?

 

[handiman]

21.5 points on 17 fga equates to 1.27 points per shot. In 2013-14, Lillard averaged 20.9 ppg on 15.9 shots, or 1.30 ppg. So Beverly's "pretty effective defense" held Lillard to...basically his season average.

Not.
Swayed.

You would have to break it down further and see who was putting Dame on the line and how that contributed to his points per shot. Advanced stats are nice for some stuff, but nothing trumps FG% in my book.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You would have to break it down further and see who was putting Dame on the line and how that contributed to his points per shot. Advanced stats are nice for some stuff, but nothing trumps FG% in my book.

As the old saying goes, you can lead a mule to logic, but you can't make him think...or something like that.

 

[handiman]

As the old saying goes, you can lead a mule to logic, but you can't make him think...or something like that.

Do you honestly not remember how hard Beverly made Lillard work that year, and how happy we collectively were that he was hobbled going into the playoffs?

Advanced stats mislead more often than not. I'll stick to the eye test.

 

[H.C.]

Plumlee sure has created a lot of 4 on 3 situations alone for the team.
I wish his man knew how to stay in front of Plumlee guy must be the worst defender in the league.
Half the time Plumlee isn't even being guarded! What gives!?
I really hope for game 6 this continues to happen. Plumlee is really good at finding the open man in a 4 on 3 half court situation.
(I just hope Lillard stays away from trying to split the double. Keep passing to a wide open Plumlee please.)