Lillard's invisible performance (1 Viewer)

[WillG]

Dame is playing poorly. He's not making the situation any better with his decisions. (poor shot selection/going for glory shots/weak passing) = crap leadership/setting poor example - the one intangible he's supposed to excel at.

Love Dame - but there's no gain in sugar coating/rose glassing it- best to be straight up;
When your being out played by Austin Rivers and Prigioni - I'm sorry but your performing at a D-Leaguer level.

 

[Binx]

I see this thread as 1) Lillard sucks and is invisible!!! and 2) Lillard has made more bad decisions and taken more ill-advised shots than normal.

Pretty much everyone has disagreed with 1), including myself. It's ridiculous.

Well, you've worked yourself into a frenzy over nothing, because I never said Lillard sucks. I was referring to one game only, not his career and not even this season. One game. Look at the thread title in case you're still confused.

He had a great fourth quarter last night, and was a big part of our win, but again for most of the game he was shut out. His long stretches of unproductive play are noticeable of late, and are worth talking about on a board like this, where we all come to discuss our concerns, our happiness, and the state of our team.

Go, Blazers!!!

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Well, you've worked yourself into a frenzy over nothing, because I never said Lillard sucks. I was referring to one game only, not his career and not even this season. One game. Look at the thread title in case you're still confused.

He had a great fourth quarter last night, and was a big part of our win, but again for most of the game he was shut out. His long stretches of unproductive play are noticeable of late, and are worth talking about on a board like this, where we all come to discuss our concerns, our happiness, and the state of our team.

Go, Blazers!!!

Absolutely worth talking about if we lose. If we win and he goes scoreless I couldn't care less. That goes for next series as well. If he puts up 35 in a game and we lose then oh well. If the next game he puts up 7 points and we win then fine by me.

 

[Natebishop3]

Here are the issues that I think people are overlooking:

1. Lillard has NEVER played well against LAC. Conversely, he has always seemed to play VERY well against GS, so that bodes well for us.

2. Glenn Rivers has built his entire defense around stopping Dame. I have really only seen Dame get a few easy, wide open shots in this series. They just aren't available.

3. This is the first year where Dame is the number one option on offense in the playoffs, and the defense is built around stopping him, so any past playoff numbers are somewhat irrelevent because the circumstances were significantly different with Aldridge on the floor.

4. Terry Stotts has adjusted our offense so that the ball flows through the hands of Plumlee. This is why we have seen Plumlee's assists go up, and Dame's go down. Our offense has been about drawing the defense to Dame, passing to Plums, and then rotating to Harkless, Aminu, or Crabbe. It is why we're WINNING. People need to stop overlooking this.

5. Despite what people are claiming about shot selection, Dame was 5-10 from three last night. So are you unhappy with his drives? His mid-range shots?

I really haven't seen Dame forcing shots as much as some people would like to claim. And there seems to be some kind of strange "dammed if you do and dammed if you don't" situation because people bitch if he isn't taking shots while being doubled, but then they bitch even more if he DOES take shots while being doubled. Which is it? Do you want him to force the issue and try to get shots, or do you want him to pass the ball and serve as a decoy? You can't have both.

 

[Binx]

Dame is playing poorly. He's not making the situation any better with his decisions. (poor shot selection/going for glory shots/weak passing) = crap leadership/setting poor example - the one intangible he's supposed to excel at.

Love Dame - but there's no gain in sugar coating/rose glassing it- best to be straight up;
When your being out played by Austin Rivers and Prigioni - I'm sorry but your performing at a D-Leaguer level.

Yes, the shot selection has been noticeably bad. Even the NBA TV commentators were talking about it last night. I guess they can point it out, but if you say it on this board you get your head cut off.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yes, the shot selection has been noticeably bad. Even the NBA TV commentators were talking about it last night. I guess they can point it out, but if you say it on this board you get your head cut off.

He would take about five shots per game if he waited for an open look. The Clippers aren't leaving Lillard. They have someone glued to him for the duration, and they double/trap when we try to screen his man.

So which would you prefer, Dame take very few shots (and have people accuse him of checking out) or have him take tougher shots because that's all the Clippers are giving him?

 

[blazerboy30]

Lillard made some threes in the 4th but a few were still bad shot selections. The one he banked in was a horrible shot but it's overlooked because it luckily went in.

 

[Minstrel]

Absolutely worth talking about if we lose. If we win and he goes scoreless I couldn't care less. That goes for next series as well. If he puts up 35 in a game and we lose then oh well. If the next game he puts up 7 points and we win then fine by me.

The problem is that the Blazers won't win against the Warriors, even without Curry, unless Lillard is playing big. He's going to have to defend Shaun Livingston, who's going to abuse him in the post. The only way to offset that is for Lillard to go off on the other end.

The Warriors are still an excellent, though not legendary, team without Curry. The Blazers must have blazing hot Lillard next series.

 

[Natebishop3]

Lillard made some threes in the 4th but a few were still bad shot selections. The one he banked in was a horrible shot but it's overlooked because it luckily went in.

"I want to complain.......... but he made the shot, so I can't. Drats!"

 

[blazerboy30]

"I want to complain.......... but he made the shot, so I can't. Drats!"

It's just pointing out that a lucky shot doesn't take away from the concern over bad shot selection.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's just pointing out that a lucky shot doesn't take away from the concern over bad shot selection.

Steph Curry has made a living off of taking and hitting what many people would consider to be "bad shots."

That game winner he hit against OKC was ridiculously deep from the three point line. Was that a "good shot?" He made it though, right?

What do you think about my question? Would you rather Dame take 5 shots a game if he's only taking open looks? Because he sure as hell isn't getting more than a handful of shots that are open against this defense. And if he only took 5 shots, would you complain about his lack of aggression?

 

[KeepOnRollin]

The problem is that the Blazers won't win against the Warriors, even without Curry, unless Lillard is playing big. He's going to have to defend Shaun Livingston, who's going to abuse him in the post. The only way to offset that is for Lillard to go off on the other end.

The Warriors are still an excellent, though not legendary, team without Curry. The Blazers must have blazing hot Lillard next series.

I believe Lillard has his highest scoring average against GS vs any team in the league last I looked. But as I said, if he does score single digits once and we win? Then cool with me.

 

[Strenuus]

Dame is playing poorly. He's not making the situation any better with his decisions. (poor shot selection/going for glory shots/weak passing) = crap leadership/setting poor example - the one intangible he's supposed to excel at.

Love Dame - but there's no gain in sugar coating/rose glassing it- best to be straight up;
When your being out played by Austin Rivers and Prigioni - I'm sorry but your performing at a D-Leaguer level.

LOL!!!

This is so off it's not even funny.

"outplayed" by austin rivers and prigioni?

Did they both score more than 22 points?

Not to mention you think leadership is measured by "bad passes" and other tangibles.

You have a right to your opinion, but damn.

Next.

 

[Strenuus]

Well, you've worked yourself into a frenzy over nothing, because I never said Lillard sucks. I was referring to one game only, not his career and not even this season. One game. Look at the thread title in case you're still confused.

He had a great fourth quarter last night, and was a big part of our win, but again for most of the game he was shut out. His long stretches of unproductive play are noticeable of late, and are worth talking about on a board like this, where we all come to discuss our concerns, our happiness, and the state of our team.

Go, Blazers!!!

He was a big part of our win.

End of discussion.

 

[Orion Bailey]

But, but...he's playing against the best defensive PGs in the league....tonight he's being shut down by all-nba defender Austin Rivers.

I swear some of you have blinders on when watching the games. Yes Rivers defended him some, but Prigionni was the pest in his side. And probably had Doc saying I don't care what you do, just hound Dame.

I don't care if they are all NBA or not. If you are being guarded by a PG who's SOLE job is to make it harder on you, That PG will generally be successful, because its all he needs to focus on.

If some of you people don't see WHY Lillard is playing the way he is, then you seriously have no clue about the FULL COURT play of basketball and how OTHER players can affect your game.

 

[Natebishop3]

I swear some of you have blinders on when watching the games. Yes Rivers defended him some, but Prigionni was the pest in his side. And probably had Doc saying I don't care what you do, just hound Dame.

I don't care if they are all NBA or not. If you are being guarded by a PG who's SOLE job is to make it harder on you, That PG will generally be successful, because its all he needs to focus on.

If some of you people don't see WHY Lillard is playing the way he is, then you seriously have no clue about the FULL COURT play of basketball and how OTHER players can affect your game.

Yup.... plus the way the refs are letting Rivers and Prigioni constantly foul him. That might play a small role.

 

[blazerboy30]

I don't care how many shots he takes as long as he's being aggressive, demanding full attention from their defense, and isn't forcing bad shots.

I have no idea why you're obsessed with his shot count. He's shooting 36%, which is horrible.

However, my eyes tell me he's making a very high percentage of his shots that aren't ill-advised and on balance.

The only player shooting a worse percentage than Lillard is Gerald.

So yes, I worked be fine with Dame shooting less if it meant better shots.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't care how many shots he takes as long as he's being aggressive, demanding full attention from their defense, and isn't forcing bad shots.

I have no idea why you're obsessed with his shot count. He's shooting 36%, which is horrible.

However, my eyes tell me he's making a very high percentage of his shots that aren't ill-advised and on balance.

The only player shooting a worse percentage than Lillard is Gerald.

So yes, I worked be fine with Dame shooting less if it meant better shots.

What is your definition of a "bad shot?"

What is ill-advised?

 

[illmatic99]

Steph Curry has made a living off of taking and hitting what many people would consider to be "bad shots."

Dame isn't close to the shooter that Curry is. The worst Curry has ever shot from 3pt in a season in his career is 42.4%. He made 45.4% on 11+ attempts this year.

Dame's best 3pt% was his second season when he shot 39.4% on 7 attempts.

Long story short, Curry actually makes those ridiculous shots, Dame doesn't. A 28' jumpshot over two guys with 18 seconds left on the shot clock is a good shot for Curry. It's not for Dame or 99.9% of the league.

 

[Natebishop3]

Dame isn't close to the shooter that Curry is. The worst he has ever shot from 3pt in a season in his career is 42.4%. He made 45.4% on 11+ attempts this year.

Dame's best 3pt% was his second season when he shot 39.4% on 7 attempts.

Long story short, Curry actually makes those ridiculous shots, Dame doesn't.

Dame was 5-10 from three last night, and it's usually three pointers that people call ill-advised bad shots. So they went in..... 50% of the time, they went in.

 

[blazerboy30]

Dame was 5-10 from three last night, and it's usually three pointers that people call ill-advised bad shots. So they went in..... 50% of the time, they went in.

And even after that, he's shooting 32% from 3.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

What is your definition of a "bad shot?"

What is ill-advised?

For Lillard, a bad shot is generally a contested/off-balance jump shot off the dribble. I will take him shooting in catch-and-shoot situations all game long, even with a guy in his grill. And I have no problem with him taking a jump shot off the dribble if his guy is playing off him. Or immediately upon coming around a good screen. All of those situations are fine, to me. It's just the shots that don't feel like they actually come within the flow of the offense, where it feels like he's forcing it when there seem to be other, better options that bother me.

 

[Strenuus]

What is your definition of a "bad shot?"

What is ill-advised?

I can only think of 2 times last night where Dame took an ill-advised shot... and both of those were early-in-the-shot-clock ones where we had the lead.

Other than that, he was fine. 2 possessions out of 83... I think that's fine. And he only had 2 turnovers.

So these bad passes, and bad shots (though that can be subjective... some think he takes 15 bad shots a game no matter what) account for 4/83 possessions... granted he's not on the floor for all of them... but, still. 4/83 = 4.8% of possessions that Dame (since he's the subject) could have had a bad possession.

lol. Dont take that as gospel, just throwing out a number.

Say you cut it in half. 4/41.5 = 9.6% so not even 1 out of every 10 plays.

Again, no concrete numbers, just giving some perspective.

 

[Strenuus]

And even after that, he's shooting 32% from 3.

It's not how many you make, but when you make 'em.

He made em when they were needed most. That's all that matters, period.

 

[illmatic99]

Dame was 5-10 from three last night, and it's usually three pointers that people call ill-advised bad shots. So they went in..... 50% of the time, they went in.

Ya OK. Nearly all except one of Dame's made threes last night came when he was on balance and fairly open. The rest were chucks and you know it, but refuse to see it that way. Pointless to continue when this is how you respond.

He was 5-10 last night. Before that, he was 8-30 (27%) in the series.

 

[blazerboy30]

It's not how many you make, but when you make 'em.

He made em when they were needed most. That's all that matters, period.

Um, not period. What an utter BS statement.

 

[Natebishop3]

I can only think of 2 times last night where Dame took an ill-advised shot... and both of those were early-in-the-shot-clock ones where we had the lead.

Other than that, he was fine. 2 possessions out of 83... I think that's fine. And he only had 2 turnovers.

So these bad passes, and bad shots (though that can be subjective... some think he takes 15 bad shots a game no matter what) account for 4/83 possessions... granted he's not on the floor for all of them... but, still. 4/83 = 4.8% of possessions that Dame (since he's the subject) could have had a bad possession.

lol. Dont take that as gospel, just throwing out a number.

Say you cut it in half. 4/41.5 = 9.6% so not even 1 out of every 10 plays.

Again, no concrete numbers, just giving some perspective.

Plus, Lillard got a lot of his points from drives this season. The Clips have almost completely erased that from his arsenal because of Jordan. He has either been blocked or had his shot affected 3-4 times per game, in every game.

 

[Strenuus]

Um, not period. What an utter BS statement.

Did he, or did he not, help us win in the 4th quarter, when it counted?

I can wait.

Has he, or has he not, hit key shots for us all year?

Has he, or has he not, willed this team to the playoffs?

I can wait.

 

[Strenuus]

Plus, Lillard got a lot of his points from drives this season. The Clips have almost completely erased that from his arsenal because of Jordan. He has either been blocked or had his shot affected 3-4 times per game, in every game.

Yep. People want him to fight through the double team, then get pissed when he does try it and he turns it over.

It's baffling people actually think like that.

 

[illmatic99]

For Lillard, a bad shot is generally a contested/off-balance jump shot off the dribble. I will take him shooting in catch-and-shoot situations all game long, even with a guy in his grill. And I have no problem with him taking a jump shot off the dribble if his guy is playing off him. Or immediately upon coming around a good screen. All of those situations are fine, to me. It's just the shots that don't feel like they actually come within the flow of the offense, where it feels like he's forcing it when there seem to be other, better options that bother me.

Exactly.

His release is quick. He can handle shooting with a contest. But the chucks from top of the key early in the shot clock, and the curls when he throws it up when he tries to draw fouls? Those need to go. Getting rid of even 2 or 3 of those attempts per game would make him so much more efficient.

And every bad miss last night was doubly painful because they led directly to Clipper fast breaks.