Lineups

[Rastapopoulos]

It's easy to blame Stotts for our inconsistent play, but it's awfully hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's arse. YOU try to come up with lineups that are both offensively and defensively proficient (without cloning RoCo). Let's hear 'em.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

See - you can't do it. So don't blame Stotts when he can't either.

(And even if you load up one lineup with good defensive players, that means you've got a bench that couldn't guard a chair. Or a chair that can't guard a bench - one or the other.)

 

[tester551]

Starters: (2 poor defenders)
Dame, Norm, DJJ, RoCo, Kanter

CJ subs for the 1/2 with just a little bit of Nas sprinkled in. Dame gets 34 mins, Norm gets 32, & CJ 30 mins.

Nas subs in for DJJ at the 3. DJJ gets 24 mins, Nas 24.

Melo subs in for RoCo at the 4 (preferably it would be Giles - but that won't happen). RoCo gets 30 mins & Melo gets 18.

Nurk subs for Kanter. This is primarily so Melo/Kanter NEVER play together. Kanter gets 20 mins & Nurk gets 28.

Closing lineup:
Dame, Norm, Little, RoCo, Nurk

 

[tester551]

See - you can't do it. So don't blame Stotts when he can't either.

(And even if you load up one lineup with good defensive players, that means you've got a bench that couldn't guard a chair. Or a chair that can't guard a bench - one or the other.)

Its really not THAT hard. Avoid the 3 guard lineup, except for short stretches. Avoid Melo/Kanter pairing...

I think its more that your OP wasn't engaging.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Starters: (2 poor defenders)
Dame, Norm, DJJ, RoCo, Kanter

I'd say you only had one good defender there (and two TERRIBLE defenders)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Its really not THAT hard. Avoid the 3 guard lineup, except for short stretches. Avoid Melo/Kanter pairing...

I think its more that your OP wasn't engaging.

You are, of course, ignoring the fact that these are actual human beings with egos, and that there are unwritten rules in the NBA about starting. It was a minor miracle that Melo agreed to come off the bench, and now you're just going to plop CJ AND Nurk (notoriously moody if he feels disrespected) on the bench? Yeah, good luck.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

We have two genuine bona fide good defenders: Nurk and RoCo. (And both of them have their weaknesses - both are good team defenders but of limited value one on one.)
Nas has promise and could join them.
Powell and DJJ somehow have that reputation, but show me any statistical evidence for this.
Kanter, Melo, Simons and Dame are among the worst defenders at their positions in the league.

 

[boredinsalem]

Here are some:

Dame/CJ/Jones/Covington/Nurkic
Dame/CJ/Powell/Covington/Nurkic
Dame or CJ/Powell/Jones/Melo/Nurkic
Dame or CJ/Powell/Little/Covington/Kanter
Dame or CJ/Little/Melo/Covington/RHJ
Dame or CJ/Jones/Melo/Little/RHJ

 

[tester551]

I'd say you only had one good defender there (and two TERRIBLE defenders)

That wasn't the metric. You said to come up with a lineup offensively and defensively 'proficient'.
The starting lineup I provided is improved defensively than what we started most of the year (with little to no offensive reduction).

You are, of course, ignoring the fact that these are actual human beings with egos, and that there are unwritten rules in the NBA about starting. It was a minor miracle that Melo agreed to come off the bench, and now you're just going to plop CJ AND Nurk (notoriously moody if he feels disrespected) on the bench? Yeah, good luck.

I don't care about any unwritten rules.
There is no question in my mind that Nurk would accept that role if it was explained to him what the end goal is and why the approach. I agree that CJ would be very pissy about coming off the bench.

But end of the day - if a player isn't willing to sacrifice for the good of the team, then I don't want them on the team. Having said that - it's the coaches job to CLEARLY communicate the vision/roles/responsibilities to every player and get them to buy in. I think most of the time, coaches don't communicate this well enough to the team.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Strenuus]

Fire stolshey. It's the only right move.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Was kinda hoping somebody would actually look up our best lineups on some stat site and save me the trouble. Buncha lazy-asses

 

[brooklynballer]

Was kinda hoping somebody would actually look up our best lineups on some stat site and save me the trouble. Buncha lazy-asses

No surprise that the lineups with Dame, CJ, Norm, RoCo and either center have the best Net Rating. I’ve put a filter on for a minimum of 40min of PT together.

Best five defensive lineups:


Worst five defensive lineups:

 

[Scalma]

It's easy to blame Stotts for our inconsistent play, but it's awfully hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's arse. YOU try to come up with lineups that are both offensively and defensively proficient (without cloning RoCo). Let's hear 'em.

Dame
CJ
Nas
Roco
Nurkic

 

[TBpup]

Hilarious! Apparently neither brother understands defense.

 

[Scalma]

Hilarious! Apparently neither brother understands defense.

lololol

 

[blazerkor]

No surprise that the lineups with Dame, CJ, Norm, RoCo and either center have the best Net Rating. I’ve put a filter on for a minimum of 40min of PT together.

Best five defensive lineups:
View attachment 38071

Worst five defensive lineups:
View attachment 38072

What is a surprise is that no other lineup with Nurk in it is featured in your graphic... what the hell is that about? I realize that you're just pulling images off of a site but I have to imagine that Dame or CJ, Norm, DJ, RoCo and Nurk would be our most solid defensive lineup that's gotten some run... no? Obviously if we wanted a stop and weren't worried about offense or feelings Norm, DJ, Nas, RoCo and Nurk would play. Maybe it's just another case of statistics being limited in their ability to tell the truth and only being a part of evaluation.

 

[tester551]

What is a surprise is that no other lineup with Nurk in it is featured in your graphic... what the hell is that about? I realize that you're just pulling images off of a site but I have to imagine that Dame or CJ, Norm, DJ, RoCo and Nurk would be our most solid defensive lineup that's gotten some run... no? Obviously if we wanted a stop and weren't worried about offense or feelings Norm, DJ, Nas, RoCo and Nurk would play. Maybe it's just another case of statistics being limited in their ability to tell the truth and only being a part of evaluation.

Or maybe it's a matter of the coaching decisions being made such that there is no data for that scenario.

The Norm, DJ, RoCo, Nurk combo has only played for a total of 16-minutes together (regardless of who the 5th player is). Having said that, those 16-minutes did not yield great results. I do think that combo would have a very good fit - and I'd like to see how they perform with a larger sample size. ...

 

[illmatic99]

No surprise that the lineups with Dame, CJ, Norm, RoCo and either center have the best Net Rating. I’ve put a filter on for a minimum of 40min of PT together.

Best five defensive lineups:
View attachment 38071

Worst five defensive lineups:
View attachment 38072

This is really interesting. If the rest of our squad was as good as our current starting lineup, our offensive rating would be 2nd in the entire league, and 5th defensively. Interesting to see if: 1) this lineup can sustain it, or 2) how the hell do we improve our bench?

Also interesting:
Dame-CJ-Powell-Roco-Nurk: 101 min, 100.9 DRTG, 18.4 Net
Dame-CJ-Jones-Roco-Nurk: 188 min, 107.7 DRTG, 6.7 Net

Powell has had a massive impact on our team on both ends of the floor.

 

[bobf]

We’d like to have 3 defenders on the floor at all times but that’s not possible with Kanter and two guards. So when Kanter is on the floor I’ll shore up his defense best I can with 100% RoCo 100% Powell and 50/50 Little DJ and 50/50 Dame CJ.

MINUTES
Nurk 26, Kanter 22
32 for RoCo, Little, DJ, Dame, Norm, CJ

MINUTES / LINEUP
11 Kanter RoCo Little Powell Dame
11 Kanter RoCo DJ Powell CJ
16 Nurk Little DJ Dame CJ
5 Nurk RoCo Little Powell Dame
5 Nurk Roco DJ Powell CJ

 

[Tince]

I think this is a fun exercise, but really exposes the larger issue:

What good teams/defensive teams have to do this level of rotation gymnastics? I think it's pretty rare for a good team to have their two best players be minus defenders. Even more uncommon for a championship contender.

 

[bobf]

What is a surprise is that no other lineup with Nurk in it is featured in your graphic... what the hell is that about? I realize that you're just pulling images off of a site but I have to imagine that Dame or CJ, Norm, DJ, RoCo and Nurk would be our most solid defensive lineup that's gotten some run... no? Obviously if we wanted a stop and weren't worried about offense or feelings Norm, DJ, Nas, RoCo and Nurk would play. Maybe it's just another case of statistics being limited in their ability to tell the truth and only being a part of evaluation.

The top 4 lineups on the list averaged playing together for a game and a half. Tiny sample sizes and who knows which lineups were playing against strong or weak opponents.