LOL LeBron James not MVP finalist

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Rhal said:
Its a regular season award. We are seeing now why Lebron decided to rest so many games, even thought he was amazing during the regular season when he played.
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During the regular season, the Cavs Defense was basically the same as the Blazers.
 
...it's because they only won 51 games in a watered down Eastern Conference and because he sat out more than a dozen of those game :dunno: He will win the finals MVP, again!
 
HAAK72 said:
...it's because they only won 51 games in a watered down Eastern Conference and because he sat out more than a dozen of those game :dunno: He will win the finals MVP, again!
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See thats bullshit though.

Ask any team and I guarantee their management/front office says they would gladly trade a mediocre season in for a win at the end vs a stellar season and a loss in the WFC.

Lets dissect MVP for a moment.
Most
Valuable
Player

What makes an MVP? Is it Stats? Is it leadership? Is it winning a ring?

Most would say all of the above, but I doubt the teams do.
If you win it all, everything else falls to the waste side and a player that knows when to reserve energy so he can expend it when it is needed the most is obviously a very intelligent player and extremely valuable to me. Now you add his once in a generation physique and skill set and the fact that they are gonna go to the finals again, how is he not hands down the only MVP candidate that matters?

I swear the voting of awards and accolades ( All Star/MVP/ETC) in the NBA are obsurdly ridiculous...

Im not an LBJ fan other than being an NBA fan and its nice to see a once in a generation player like that, but lets be real and give respect where respect is deserved. The guy is simply an unnstoppable force and has matured enough now to know not to give a shit about what other people say about him(media) and just do what he knows he needs to do to win again.
Thats an MVP to me. The rest can suck his nuts cause they all need to bow down...
 
Orion Bailey said:
See thats bullshit though.
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Actually, it's not. Team success definitely plays a roll in post season award voting. We just had this discussion in the All NBA thread, that Dame didn't make it because the team underachieved, flat out sucked for much of the season, only won 41 games and was the 8th seed in the West. Dame had better stats this year than last, but last year we were the surprising 5th seed and Dame was rewarded with 2nd Team All NBA honors. This year, we were the disappointing 8th seed and Dame was left off the All NBA teams.

The Cavs, with a MUCH, MUCH more stacked roster, with LeBron, Kyrie, K-Love and a fucking boatload of veteran ring chasers, playing in a much weaker conference only won 10 more games than the disappointing Blazers. For large portions of the season the Cavs defense was every bit as atrocious as the Blazers. The defending champs had a very underwhelming, unimpressive regular season. And voters don't award players on disappointing, underachieving teams.

Orion Bailey said:
Ask any team and I guarantee their management/front office says they would gladly trade a mediocre season in for a win at the end vs a stellar season and a loss in the WFC.
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Does not matter. This is the regular season MVP award. The voting takes place before the playoffs even start. Based on their very underwhelming regular season, no one thought the Cavs would sweep their way to the finals. Last season they won six more games, were the No. 1 seed in the East and TOR took them to 6 games.

Orion Bailey said:
What makes an MVP? Is it Stats? Is it leadership? Is it winning a ring?
Click to expand...

Again you left out the regular season part. There's a separate finals MVP award for the most valuable player on the team that wins a ring.

There is no dispute that LeBron James is the best basketball player on the planet - when he is healthy, rested, focused, locked in and motivated. But, that's not what this award is about. It is the regular season MVP, and LeBron chose to rest more and coast more during the regular season to conserve his energy for the playoffs, and it's working. He's more rested (and sweeping each series gives him plenty more time off to rest between series), but you don't give the regular season MVP award to someone who takes time off and coasts during the regular season.

If the Cavs win the title, LeBron will again win the finals MVP. I think if you ask him, winning the finals, and therefore, the finals MVP, would be much more important to him than winning another regular season MVP award. He made a consious decision to sacrifice a chance at the latter to give himself a much better chance at the former.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Actually, it's not. Team success definitely plays a roll in post season award voting. We just had this discussion in the All NBA thread, that Dame didn't make it because the team underachieved, flat out sucked for much of the season, only won 41 games and was the 8th seed in the West. Dame had better stats this year than last, but last year we were the surprising 5th seed and Dame was rewarded with 2nd Team All NBA honors. This year, we were the disappointing 8th seed and Dame was left off the All NBA teams.

The Cavs, with a MUCH, MUCH more stacked roster, with LeBron, Kyrie, K-Love and a fucking boatload of veteran ring chasers, playing in a much weaker conference only won 10 more games than the disappointing Blazers. For large portions of the season the Cavs defense was every bit as atrocious as the Blazers. The defending champs had a very underwhelming, unimpressive regular season. And voters don't award players on disappointing, underachieving teams.



Does not matter. This is the regular season MVP award. The voting takes place before the playoffs even start. Based on their very underwhelming regular season, no one thought the Cavs would sweep their way to the finals. Last season they won six more games, were the No. 1 seed in the East and TOR took them to 6 games.



Again you left out the regular season part. There's a separate finals MVP award for the most valuable player on the team that wins a ring.

There is no dispute that LeBron James is the best basketball player on the planet - when he is healthy, rested, focused, locked in and motivated. But, that's not what this award is about. It is the regular season MVP, and LeBron chose to rest more and coast more during the regular season to conserve his energy for the playoffs, and it's working. He's more rested (and sweeping each series gives him plenty more time off to rest between series), but you don't give the regular season MVP award to someone who takes time off and coasts during the regular season.

If the Cavs win the title, LeBron will again win the finals MVP. I think if you ask him, winning the finals, and therefore, the finals MVP, would be much more important to him than winning another regular season MVP award. He made a consious decision to sacrifice a chance at the latter to give himself a much better chance at the former.

BNM
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I get what you are slaying ,but that is exactly why it is bullshit. Just because something is one way doesn't mean its right or it isn't bullshit.

The finals MVP is just that. for the FINALS. But what LBJ has done has been for the whole playoffs.

What Finals MVP's get remembered? I don't remember beyond last year.

IT isnt called the MVPOTRS (MVP of the regular season)
Its the 2016-2017 MVP

So who is the MVP for the WFC and EFC?


Its bullshit. We will have to agree to disagree.
LBJ is clearly the smartest MVP out there. So much so, that people are blinded by what he didnt do in the regular season, but what he didn't do is what has led to their success. It was deliberate and calculated. Like a sniper. MVP all the way. I dont give a fuck what the NBA says. Its bullshit.
 
If he wants to be the regular season MVP then he has to play like it all season. They can't base their vote on previous years. But I doubt the regular season is that important to Lebron. At this point in his career it is all about championships, and resting/coasting through the regular season appears to be part of the plan that allows him to turn it on in the postseason.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I get what you are slaying ,but that is exactly why it is bullshit. Just because something is one way doesn't mean its right or it isn't bullshit.

The finals MVP is just that. for the FINALS. But what LBJ has done has been for the whole playoffs.

What Finals MVP's get remembered? I don't remember beyond last year.

IT isnt called the MVPOTRS (MVP of the regular season)
Its the 2016-2017 MVP

So who is the MVP for the WFC and EFC?


Its bullshit. We will have to agree to disagree.
LBJ is clearly the smartest MVP out there. So much so, that people are blinded by what he didnt do in the regular season, but what he didn't do is what has led to their success. It was deliberate and calculated. Like a sniper. MVP all the way. I dont give a fuck what the NBA says. Its bullshit.
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It is, and always has been, the regular season MVP award. The voting takes place before the playoffs even start. They also don't call ROY, the ROYOTRS, the DPOY, the DPOYOTRS, the COY the COYOTRS, the MIP the MIPOTRS, etc. These are all regular season awards that are voted on based on regular season performance.

If you can't even remember who won past Finals MVP awards, what would be the point of having WCF and ECF MVPs? The only post season MVP award that makes sense in the Finals MVP. You need to play well enough in the earlier rounds to just get to the finals. So, the Finals MVP is somewhat cumulative in nature anyway.

The point you seem to be arguing is why even have regular season awards when winning a ring is all that matters. Well, that's the way it's always been. The regular season is long and grueling and players that excel deserve recognition for their achievements.

There were years when Michael Jordan won the MVP award, but didn't win a ring. He was clearly the best player on the planet, but he was not on the best team. Does he deserve to be stripped of those MVP awards because BOS and DET were better teams at the time?

Hell, LeBron himself won the MVP in 2010, but his team got bounced in the second round by BOS. Should we go back and take away that MVP award because his team underachieved in the playoffs?

BNM
 
Voters, though their voting, have made it clear that it's not "best player" or "most valuable player." It's "player who had the most impressive regular season by raw per-game stats on a playoff qualifier."

If it were best/most valuable player, it would be James and Curry as 1/2 (their on/off court numbers are insane) and maybe Kawhi Leonard.
 
Boob-No-More said:
It is, and always has been, the regular season MVP award. The voting takes place before the playoffs even start. They also don't call ROY, the ROYOTRS, the DPOY, the DPOYOTRS, the COY the COYOTRS, the MIP the MIPOTRS, etc. These are all regular season awards that are voted on based on regular season performance.

If you can't even remember who won past Finals MVP awards, what would be the point of having WCF and ECF MVPs? The only post season MVP award that makes sense in the Finals MVP. You need to play well enough in the earlier rounds to just get to the finals. So, the Finals MVP is somewhat cumulative in nature anyway.

The point you seem to be arguing is why even have regular season awards when winning a ring is all that matters. Well, that's the way it's always been. The regular season is long and grueling and players that excel deserve recognition for their achievements.

There were years when Michael Jordan won the MVP award, but didn't win a ring. He was clearly the best player on the planet, but he was not on the best team. Does he deserve to be stripped of those MVP awards because BOS and DET were better teams at the time?

Hell, LeBron himself won the MVP in 2010, but his team got bounced in the second round by BOS. Should we go back and take away that MVP award because his team underachieved in the playoffs?

BNM
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I get your point, but Im sorry, I just dont agree with the logic used as the base definition of the MVP. The eye test alone says LBJ is hands down the best player on the planet... possibly ever. Almost any front office would chose him to build around over any other player in the league.
That is the definition of MVP to me.
He is the most valuable. regardless of the regular season success or stats. He is the best player on the planet. Its hard to understand that there is even an argument, let alone try to understand THE argument.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I get your point, but Im sorry, I just dont agree with the logic used as the base definition of the MVP. The eye test alone says LBJ is hands down the best player on the planet... possibly ever. Almost any front office would chose him to build around over any other player in the league.
That is the definition of MVP to me.
He is the most valuable. regardless of the regular season success or stats. He is the best player on the planet. Its hard to understand that there is even an argument, let alone try to understand THE argument.
Click to expand...

There isn't an argument. It's not called the best player on the planet award. I have never heard anyone claim that LeBron is not currently the best player on the planet, but when he coasts through the regular season, the regular season MVP award goes to someone who didn't.

Why weren't you this upset when Steph Curry won the MVP award the previous two regular seasons, or Kevin Durant the year before?

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
There isn't an argument. It's not called the best player on the planet award. I have never heard anyone claim that LeBron is not currently the best player on the planet, but when he coasts through the regular season, the regular season MVP award goes to someone who didn't.

Why weren't you this upset when Steph Curry won the MVP award the previous two regular seasons, or Kevin Durant the year before?

BNM
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Oh, I'm not upset at all, I just have long thought the voting system and how they reach their consensus is all backwards and to me this just another example. the playoffs are also within the years of 2016-2017 and the MVP for that year... this year, to me is LBJ. And he is proving it now. Yeah, I do believe that the playoffs should be included and there can still be a finals MVP if they want.

I felt the same every other year, just never voiced it, because I didn't frequent the site as much and didn't see a thread like this to voice it on. If I was that upset, Ida created the thread myself, lol.
 
Yeah, I wouldn't really have a problem with including the playoffs in post-season awards. Especially since they prioritize players on playoff qualifiers anyway, the argument that it would be unfair to players who don't reach the post-season doesn't really hold. No one on a non-playoff team is (generally) winning major awards.

Since it's voted on before the playoffs, though, it makes sense that James isn't really in the running. If you don't compete for an award, you don't win it. Even if you could have won it if you had competed.
 
If you replace Harden, Westbrook and Leonard on their respective teams with Lebron, Houston or OKC would still be in the playoffs, and SA would be better.

He's the best player in the world, and that should equal MVP
 
Mediocre Man said:
If you replace Harden, Westbrook and Leonard on their respective teams with Lebron, Houston or OKC would still be in the playoffs, and SA would be better.

He's the best player in the world, and that should equal MVP
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I would go even further and say if you put LeBron on ANY NBA team, that team would be in the playoffs. May be a first round exit team, but playoffs nonetheless.
 
Umm LeBron had one of his best regular seasons ever. Career highs in assists and rebounds. He didn't exactly "Coast."
 
Pinwheel1 said:
If he wants to be the regular season MVP then he has to play like it all season. They can't base their vote on previous years. But I doubt the regular season is that important to Lebron. At this point in his career it is all about championships, and resting/coasting through the regular season appears to be part of the plan that allows him to turn it on in the postseason.
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Hahaha his numbers were amazing.
 
BlazerWookee said:
It's supposed to be about the regular season, no?
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Yes, the voting takes place before the playoffs. So, even if someone dies in Game 1 of the first round, it won't effect where they finish in MVP voting.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Yes, the voting takes place before the playoffs. So, even if someone dies in Game 1 of the first round, it won't effect where they finish in MVP voting.

BNM
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That would certainly make for an awkward awards ceremony...
 
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