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wizenheimer said:
LOL...yet another thread where people say Dame is fading so Portland should hurry up and trade him for a great package of assets....as if they would be the only team clued into the reality of a fading Dame

on one hand people are saying that "well, yeah, Dame is a dollar, but all Portland can surround him with are dimes, nickels, and pennies....so then let's trade him for some dimes, nickels, and pennies"
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Wait... who said he's fading?
 
wizenheimer said:
Chris Paul is more than 5 years older than Dame. Has his value dropped 50%? Curry is 3 years older. Kyle Lowry is almost 5 years older. Lebron is 6 years older. Not a single one of those guys have dropped to a quarter yet, let alone a dime

my analogy was pretty smart...you dumbed it down
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Dame and Chris Paul aren't even remotely the same kind of player. Paul has always been an exceptional defender, and he's the ultimate floor general. He's the modern John Stockton. His game was never built around being able to score.

Curry is also not the same player as Dame. Sure, to someone who doesn't pay attention, they both shoot deep threes and they're the stars of their teams, but Curry is a guy who runs off screens. He's really more of a Ray Allen in a point guards body. Dame has never run off screens. That's not his game at all. I could see Dame fading pretty hard when his body starts to age. He relies on sheer athleticism to get open or shoot over people. Curry is more of a cardio guy. He could play for a long time simply because he can still run off screens and he can still shoot lightning fast.

LeBron is a freak of nature. Nobody will ever be like LeBron again. I highly highly doubt it.
 
wizenheimer said:
Chris Paul is more than 5 years older than Dame. Has his value dropped 50%? Curry is 3 years older. Kyle Lowry is almost 5 years older. Lebron is 6 years older. Not a single one of those guys have dropped to a quarter yet, let alone a dime

my analogy was pretty smart...you dumbed it down
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And you see no evidence that any of those players are on the downside of their careers? You believe they are all still at their peak?

Whatever. :ughno:
 
oldmangrouch said:
And you see no evidence that any of those players are on the downside of their careers? You believe they are all still at their peak?
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please point out where I said they were at their "peaks". You won't be able to because I never said it

YOU said in a post above: "Dame will be getting paid a dollar (or more) while his value drops to .50 cents, then a quarter, then a dime....."

so I pointed out that those players are all older than Dame and none of them are quarters or dimes yet; maybe haven't even hit as low as 50 cents. Is Chris Paul a dime? Is Curry a quarter?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Dame and Chris Paul aren't even remotely the same kind of player. He's the modern John Stockton. His game was never built around being able to score.

Curry is also not the same player as Dame. Sure, to someone who doesn't pay attention, they both shoot deep threes and they're the stars of their teams, but Curry is a guy who runs off screens. He's really more of a Ray Allen in a point guards body. Dame has never run off screens. .
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yeah, right. Nothing remotely resembling a screen is ever used in the pick-and-roll (picks and screens are completely different...wut?), and Dame does PnR while Stockton didn't
 
Both strategies for winning have merit. KEEP DAME, Nurkic, Simons, Hart, #6, the player to be named later involving the Pelican Pick ... and go for it. Use of TPE ... picks ... OR ... TRADE DAME, sign and trade Nurkic, sign Simons, go young ... play the long game with youth. Prepare to suffer. I can see the logic of both but having a superstar NOW with a young, possible star ... I go with Dame, et.al.

However, I wouldn't quickly dismiss either strategy as legit. As feasible. The bench players outside of Ingles? [Not counting Hart.] There's several who can play, but I wouldn't count on ANY of them to ever become a quality starter for a team that's contending. Stay or go becomes it all depends. Anybody on the team who isn't committed to improving their game and working to keep their bodies as injury free as possible need to hit the road. Professionals only need apply.
 
wizenheimer said:
yeah, right. Nothing remotely resembling a screen is ever used in the pick-and-roll (picks and screens are completely different...wut?), and Dame does PnR while Stockton didn't
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I’m not sure why you’re making that argument. Paul is the best assist man of this generation. He’s known as a crafty defender. Those are both traits of Stockton. Are you really comparing Dame to Stockton?
 
wizenheimer said:
yeah, right. Nothing remotely resembling a screen is ever used in the pick-and-roll (picks and screens are completely different...wut?), and Dame does PnR while Stockton didn't
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I think he means Reggie Miller type run off screen catch and shoot.
 
Hoopguru said:
I think he means Reggie Miller type run off screen catch and shoot.
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Thank you. I was so confused about his take on Stockton that I missed the part about screens. When has Dame EVER run off screens without the ball? He usually has the ball in his hands.
 
Pick wouldn't be 14th, it would be ahead of a few east teams so around 11th.

I'd say the pick has more value than the expected value of the 2025 Bucks pick.

It seems like your point is Cronin will trade away the pick for an insignificant veteran that is a bad move, so it's better to get an asset worth less because then the GM isn't able to trade it?

Cronin could still trade the Bucks pick for a useless veteran though.

Basically shows you believe Cronin is a poor GM, which I agree with.
 
illmatic99 said:
hart is closer in age to Dame than Ant.

fwiw.

we have the template for an older star (age 36), a middle age star (age 25), and a young star (age 23) right in front of us. They were in the finals last year and are favorites to get there again this year. To not even attempt at maximizing a roster build around the best player in franchise history is something I can't wrap up my head around.
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Yeah it boogles my mind Jody and Vulcan gave Cronin the authority to trade away 4 starters that could either win now or acquired other talent to win with Dame. Instead we dumped them for cap space and "flexibility". What a golden ticket ...

But that ship has sailed. There is no realistic way to build a contender around Dame.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Yeah it boogles my mind Jody and Vulcan gave Cronin the authority to trade away 4 starters that could either win now or acquired other talent to win with Dame. Instead we dumped them for cap space and "flexibility". What a golden ticket ...

But that ship has sailed. There is no realistic way to build a contender around Dame.
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If those starters could win now, why hadn't they?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I’m not sure why you’re making that argument. Paul is the best assist man of this generation. He’s known as a crafty defender. Those are both traits of Stockton. Are you really comparing Dame to Stockton?
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I'm not comparing playing styles, I'm comparing the bodies of NBA players and wondering how it is that Dame's body will somehow age more rapidly than most other NBA players. The only reason I can think of is because it fits the narrative of those advocating for Dame to be traded

as for Stockton, you were the one than entered his name into the discussion as a comp for CP3. Then, right after that, you tried to make a case that Curry would somehow age better because he runs off screens a lot more than Dame. What is the difference between a screen and the pick in PnR? That's simply a screen by another name. And both Stockton and Dame have run off those PnR screens for a big part of their offense for a majority of their careers. Why do the screens Curry runs around without the ball lengthen his career and the screens Dame runs around with the ball shortens his career?
 
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wizenheimer said:
awkward question
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Awkward for sure... but when you think about it, the original statement that we traded away guys who can win now, who weren't winning now, is equally as awkward.

I'm also in the minority of people who didn't mind making the playoffs every year even though the odds of winning it all was very slim. One season like this I can stomach, but man having to go through multiple seasons like this in a row would be brutal. Feels like the LAC/NOP game is the biggest Blazer game of the year.
 
Hoopguru said:
I think he means Reggie Miller type run off screen catch and shoot.
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that doesn't make the argument any more logical...it's not. Curry is still running; pounding his legs on the hardwood. Who runs more in a game, Dame or Curry?
 
Tince said:
If those starters could win now, why hadn't they?
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Good question. Those trades reduced the team's overall talent - but in many respects the team played better after they left. What if RoCo/Nance/Powell/CJ had been traded for roughly equal talent - but guys who were willing to play hard and buy into what Billups was trying to do? What if those 4 guys had made an honest effort to buy into what Billups was trying to do? Obviously, it's all guesswork.
 
wizenheimer said:
that doesn't make the argument any more logical...it's not. Curry is still running; pounding his legs on the hardwood. Who runs more in a game, Dame or Curry?
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Just out of curiosity, who do you think takes more of a physical beating? Since the refs tend to call fouls when Curry gets whacked, I'm inclined to say Dame.
 
oldmangrouch said:
What if RoCo/Nance/Powell/CJ had been traded for roughly equal talent.
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what if no team was willing to do that? and what if no team assigned them the value that some posters here have? and what if whatever value those guys had was degraded by their contracts?

before that sets you off I want to say for the 30th time I don't think Cronin all possible value for those 4 guys. But I also think many are underestimating the value of clearing 190M dollars off the Blazer books; or the value of 30M in TPE's
 
wizenheimer said:
what if no team was willing to do that? and what if no team assigned them the value that some posters here have? and what if whatever value those guys had was degraded by their contracts?

before that sets you off I want to say for the 30th time I don't think Cronin all possible value for those 4 guys. But I also think many are underestimating the value of clearing 190M dollars off the Blazer books; or the value of 30M in TPE's
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As I said, it is all guesswork. We know what wasn't done, but we don't know for sure why, and we can only speculate on how the alternative would have turned out.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Just out of curiosity, who do you think takes more of a physical beating? Since the refs tend to call fouls when Curry gets whacked, I'm inclined to say Dame.
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Dame has a much higher FT rate, so he's getting more whistles than Curry. Dame probably absorbs more contact but I don't think drawing shooting fouls will shorten a player's career.

what will definitely shorten a player's career is an accumulation of injuries. Scar tissue is a real thing, and Curry has had a hell of a lot more injuries
 
oldmangrouch said:
As I said, it is all guesswork. We know what wasn't done, but we don't know for sure why, and we can only speculate on how the alternative would have turned out.
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I've already speculated that I think Cronin got pressure out of Seattle to trade with the Clippers
 
oldmangrouch said:
As I said, it is all guesswork. We know what wasn't done, but we don't know for sure why, and we can only speculate on how the alternative would have turned out.
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We know that no players that we would have wanted was traded for a player with similar size, skillset, and contract as the players you mentioned.

That seems like a pretty decent indicator...
 
wizenheimer said:
Dame has a much higher FT rate, so he's getting more whistles than Curry. Dame probably absorbs more contact but I don't think drawing shooting fouls will shorten a player's career.

what will definitely shorten a player's career is an accumulation of injuries. Scar tissue is a real thing, and Curry has had a hell of a lot more injuries
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Curry has had his share of injuries - no argument there.

Let me rephrase what I was trying to say. I believe Dame takes more of a pounding night-in-and-night-out than Curry, and that a lower percentage of the hits result in whistles. YMMV
 
I think everything hinges on NO pick and obviously how high out 1st pick is. I can see a team wanting to blow it up if they fail this season. Say a team like clippers, Boston, Toronto, Miami decide they won’t be a championship team and decide for natural rebuild, we could potentially have two first rounds to trade with possible top 3 pick. That is type of package that could get you Siakam, Paul George, jimmy butler etc. team one of them up with our current roster and we become borderline championship contender. Then if little or Simons blow up you become a contender. This is absolutely your best chance at becoming a championship team during Dames time.
 
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