Lowe Podcast: Portland talking to Orl/Sac?

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Boob-No-More said:
Really? Noel wants to play. It's the team that refuses to play him and has been jerking him around since training camp. He played out of position last season, for the good of the team, and they rewarded him by shopping him and not offering him an extension.

They were shopping both him an Okafor long before Noel even hinted at wanting a trade. And, when he did mention it for the first time, he didn't demand a trade, he just said they needed to do something to balance out the roster. He's right. They have three high lottery picks who all play the same position, while looking to our age old cast offs (Sergio, Bayless and Hendo) for their guard play.

Colangelo has been punishing him ever since Noel called the situation in PHI "silly", and then his own coach basically agreed with him last week, that having three, young, staring caliber centers on the same roster is stupid.

BNM
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I'll just say my opinion: i got to watch him play a few times during the last 2 years (not a lot, why would i watch Sixers games?) and he never left a strong impression on me.
I don't think he's talented enough to be a good starter on a winning team and i don't think that a player with his limited basketball skill set and fragile health should approach his team with special demands or even be surprised that his team is shopping him.

MCW was also a lottery pick + ROY, he didn't turn up to be a stud or a starter.
I'm not excited to get a player who wasn't good enough to have stats on the Sixers,got injured,listed demands and then was not even considered good enough to play in Sixers uniform.

Best case scenario with Noel: He gives you 8 ppg and 10rpg together with good defense while his body is still fragile and you have to extend yet another role player for crazy money.
I don't see the point.
 
BonesJones said:
Here's how it's gone down and why I can't blame Noel.

1.) He was the first pick that started the Hinkie "Process". They made the playoffs the year before he got there, and blew it up and started that process by trading Jrue Holiday to the Pelicans for New Orleans' 6th pick, Nerlens Noel.

2.) He missed a year due to rehab, but was coined the cornerstone of that rebuilding process. In the off-season, the team decided to draft Embiid over other players that would've fit better next to Noel (Randle, Smart, Warren, etc.). It was the right pick, but certainly not endearing to Noel as it was obvious Embiid and him wouldn't fit next to each other. They also drafted ANOTHER big at 12 in Saric.

3.) Noel finally played as a rookie and put up great numbers while Embiid was hurt. There was still no problems from Noel, even though the team won only 18 games.

4.) Then, in the off-season, they drafted YET ANOTHER CENTER in Okafor. Now they had 3 centers and Saric waiting to come over.

To recap: Noel, once coined the cornerstone of the rebuilding process, had two centers drafted at #3 in consecutive years. I'd be pissed too.

5.) Fast forward to this year: Embiids finally healthy and playing great, Okafor is his backup at C, and Saric has come over. There was some talk that the team delayed his return from injury because of the logjam they created. Then he finally comes back and they barely play him because they have two many bigs. They barely play him even though he's a great defensive big and would be the best C on some playoff teams.

So he states how he shouldn't be playing only 8 minutes and that the organization put themselves in a spot where 1 of their 3 young centers will have to be traded. That's obvious. He's not saying he should be playing above anyone, and he never complained about the players they brought in. Embiid called him his best friend. He simply stated that he's too good to be playing 8 minutes (truth) and that the organization will have to trade one of the centers (truth).

------------------------

So given that situation, how do you figure he'd give us trouble? We haven't coined him the center of our franchise then drafted over him, made him go through sub-20 win seasons, delayed his return from injury, then benched him for the guys we drafted over him.

It's situational. He's not a bad team player or a bad teammate. I've heard many good things about him. The only thing that might've been a problem is how he treated a rental house (which we don't even know is true or not). Even if it was, he's 22. He's been in a shitty situation that's gotten the best of a (so-called) classy guy in Jahlil Okafor. Our situation would be heaven to him.
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Well said and accurate.

Noel hasn't been a problem child in PHI the way Cousins has been in SAC, and if anything PHI has been an even bigger shit show than SAC in recent years. The whole point of the process was to deliberately suck for multiple years so they could stockpile young talent. And then, rather than use all those high picks to build an actual team, they drafted three centers in a row creating a horribly imbalanced roster that will force them to make make trades to address the needs they overlooked in the draft.

BNM
 
Blazers Roy said:
i don't think that a player with his limited basketball skill set and fragile health should approach his team with special demands.
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What "special demands" are you referring to? He has never demanded to be traded. He said he's too good to be playing only 8 MPG. He's right.

You do know this latest surgery was totally elective, don't you? And that he did it at the urging of the the team, just to delay the inevitable logjam they are now dealing with.

BNM
 
BonesJones said:
Here's how it's gone down and why I can't blame Noel.

1.) He was the first pick that started the Hinkie "Process". They made the playoffs the year before he got there, and blew it up and started that process by trading Jrue Holiday to the Pelicans for New Orleans' 6th pick, Nerlens Noel.

2.) He missed a year due to rehab, but was coined the cornerstone of that rebuilding process. In the off-season, the team decided to draft Embiid over other players that would've fit better next to Noel (Randle, Smart, Warren, etc.). It was the right pick, but certainly not endearing to Noel as it was obvious Embiid and him wouldn't fit next to each other. They also drafted ANOTHER big at 12 in Saric.

3.) Noel finally played as a rookie and put up great numbers while Embiid was hurt. There was still no problems from Noel, even though the team won only 18 games.

4.) Then, in the off-season, they drafted YET ANOTHER CENTER in Okafor. Now they had 3 centers and Saric waiting to come over.

To recap: Noel, once coined the cornerstone of the rebuilding process, had two centers drafted at #3 in consecutive years. I'd be pissed too.

5.) Fast forward to this year: Embiids finally healthy and playing great, Okafor is his backup at C, and Saric has come over. There was some talk that the team delayed his return from injury because of the logjam they created. Then he finally comes back and they barely play him because they have two many bigs. They barely play him even though he's a great defensive big and would be the best C on some playoff teams.

So he states how he shouldn't be playing only 8 minutes and that the organization put themselves in a spot where 1 of their 3 young centers will have to be traded. That's obvious. He's not saying he should be playing above anyone, and he never complained about the players they brought in. Embiid called him his best friend. He simply stated that he's too good to be playing 8 minutes (truth) and that the organization will have to trade one of the centers (truth).

------------------------

So given that situation, how do you figure he'd give us trouble? We haven't coined him the center of our franchise then drafted over him, made him go through sub-20 win seasons, delayed his return from injury, then benched him for the guys we drafted over him.

It's situational. He's not a bad team player or a bad teammate. I've heard many good things about him. The only thing that might've been a problem is how he treated a rental house (which we don't even know is true or not). Even if it was, he's 22. He's been in a shitty situation that's gotten the best of a (so-called) classy guy in Jahlil Okafor. Our situation would be heaven to him.
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Ok Bones, You somewhat convinced me about his behavior. What about his health?
 
Boob-No-More said:
What "special demands" are you referring to? He has never demanded to be traded. He said he's too good to be playing only 8 MPG. He's right.

You do know this latest surgery was totally elective, don't you? And that he did it at the urging of the the team, just to delay the inevitable logjam they are now dealing with.

BNM
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I remember reading he demanded a trade and then i read he fired his agent.
I don't know wtf is going on in philly anymore lol.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Well said and accurate.

Noel hasn't been a problem child in PHI the way Cousins has been in SAC, and if anything PHI has been an even bigger shit show than SAC in recent years. The whole point of the process was to deliberately suck for multiple years so they could stockpile young talent. And then, rather than use all those high picks to build an actual team, they drafted three centers in a row creating a horribly imbalanced roster that will force them to make make trades to address the needs they overlooked in the draft.

BNM
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Thing is, Embiid was obviously the right pick. He's been a stud. However, they missed on Okafor, and they should've drafted Porzingas.

Imagine Porzingas+Saric at PF and Embiid+Noel at C. That'd be amazing.

They wouldve been able to experiment with 3-Big Man lineups, which couldve found Noel enough minutes:

Simmons
SG
Porzingas/Saric
Noel
Embiid

That works offensively because the SG, Porzingas/Saric, and Embiid can all shoot the 3. Having 4 guys at 6'10 or taller and 2 guys at 7'2 or taller would've been insane.

It also could've worked defensively, as Noel could've guarded SFs with Porzingas/Saric guarding their natural position (PFs) and Embiid guarding centers.

But they drafted a 3rd center in Okafor...
 
KingSpeed said:
If there is any way to get Cousins without giving up Dame/CJ, we are favorites this year. Jesus Christ, Cousins is good. Scores at will in paint, hits his FTs and 3 pointers. Way way way better than Aldridge.
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LoL stop joking around Kingspeed. It's time to get serious.
 
BonesJones said:
His health is why he'd be available for so cheap. If healthy, he has DeAndre Jordan potential. That's something you risk giving up Allen Crabbe for.
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You really think so??
I don't know, every time i watched him i didn't see anything exciting in his play.

I also remember hearing several times in the the Lowe Post (i think one of them was with Brett Brown) that Noel is incapable of guarding smaller guys or skilled power forwards.

According to reports Raptors are offering Ross for Noel, i think Philly would much rather have Ross than Crabbe.
 
Blazers Roy said:
I'll just say my opinion: i got to watch him play a few times during the last 2 years (not a lot, why would i watch Sixers games?) and he never left a strong impression on me.
I don't think he's talented enough to be a good starter on a winning team and i don't think that a player with his limited basketball skill set and fragile health should approach his team with special demands or even be surprised that his team is shopping him.

MCW was also a lottery pick + ROY, he didn't turn up to be a stud or a starter.
I'm not excited to get a player who wasn't good enough to have stats on the Sixers,got injured,listed demands and then was not even considered good enough to play in Sixers uniform.

Best case scenario with Noel: He gives you 8 ppg and 10rpg together with good defense while his body is still fragile and you have to extend yet another role player for crazy money.
I don't see the point.
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So you classify a defensive-minded big as a player with a "limited skillset"?

MCW won ROY in an extremely weak rookie class who's best players didn't come onto the scene until a couple years later (Giannis, CJ)

MCW also shot under 40% from the field and 30% from 3pt. It was obvious that it was empty stats due to the team being insanely awful and him always having the ball.

You can't apply the same logic to Noel. He gets a high rate of both blocks and steals. How is that due to playing on the 76ers? Defensive stats translate no matter how good or bad the team is, offensive stats dont.

It's also not that he's not good enough. He's their 3rd best player right now (arguably 2nd, I'm not that high on Okafor), but the top 2 guys are at the same position.

He didn't have special demands. He isn't surprised he's being shopped as he wants to be traded.

Best case scenario is he gives you over 15ppg per 36 minutes (he was getting 13 in his 2nd year in Philadelphia playing with shitty teammates). Lillard and McCollum would do wonders for his offensive game and he's a good pick and roll big. Defensively he could be a top 5 rim protector. He averaged a DBPM of +4 in his first two years in Philadelphia as a 20 and 21-year old. That's crazy. 15/10 per 36 with elite level rim protection and a high rate of steals isn't a "role player".
 
Put Vucevic next to Ed Davis or Noah Plumlee or Aminu....then put Plumlee next to Ed Davis or Aminu........that's the simple way to look at it
 
Blazers Roy said:
You really think so??
I don't know, every time i watched him i didn't see anything exciting in his play.

I also remember hearing several times in the the Lowe Post (i think one of them was with Brett Brown) that Noel is incapable of guarding smaller guys or skilled power forwards.

According to reports Raptors are offering Ross for Noel, i think Philly would much rather have Ross than Crabbe.
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If the 76ers are offering Ross and the 76ers would much rather have Ross then why hasn't the 76ers accepted the offer yet, when they've benched Noel for the foreseeable future and likely won't get better offers? Makes no sense.

I think that the Raptors have taken Ross off of the trade market. He's putting up 19 points per 36 minutes off the bench on 48/42/90 shooting splits. That's insanely good. Noel's value is dropping and they could likely find better win-now options that would come cheaper. Sullinger+Poeltl+Filler player for Bogut makes a lot more sense for them. Hell, they could do that and add a 1st round pick or two and land Vucevic.
 
RipCityDSCPL said:
FTFY

Edit: Finally got it right with this damn phone.
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We'd have to give up at least Harkless if we kept CJ, so you can't include both in that equation. Even so, if we got Cousins for FREE their big 4 would still be a lot better than our big 4.
 
Blazers Roy said:
I remember reading he demanded a trade and then i read he fired his agent.
I don't know wtf is going on in philly anymore lol.
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Please post a link of him demanding a trade. He called the situation silly, that he thought the front office would have resolved it over the summer, and that pissed off Bryan Colangelo, but he never demanded a trade. He said something needed to be done, but he didn't say he wanted to be the one traded, nor did he have anything but nice things to say about his teammates Emiid or Okafor. He hasn't even feuded with his coach and acknowledged the roster redundancy has put his coach in a tough position.

I think he fired his agent for encouraging him to go long with PHI's plan and have the elective surgery to postpone the inevitable logjam. He did that and when he came back and was ready to play, they jerked him around by making him alternate days rehabbing with the main team and their D league affiliate. He was literally commuting back and forth between the main team and the D league team on a daily basis, but not being allowed to play for either team.

Why???? If all he was doing was some PT and riding a bike or working out in the pool, why shuttle him back and forth on a daily basis? All that time wasted on traveling back and forth, could have been spent doing more PT, rehab and rest. If all he's doing is rehab and not playing, why even bother sending him down to the D league at all No way in hell does the D league team have better trainers and facilities than the main club.

BNM
 
Minstrel said:
"Our trash for your superstar" is rarely a good pitch. (And no, Turner isn't literally "trash," but in this context, he qualifies.)

For perspective, imagine a Sacramento fan suggests Omri Casspi and Ben McLemore for CJ McCollum. How would you react?

According to Lowe, in his latest article, Sacramento isn't interested in selling Cousins cheaply (or, potentially, at all). So people thinking that the Kings will be happy to dump Cousins for nothing should recalibrate their expectations.



Link
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I wasnt sayign that would land DMC. I was saying the money could be worked out.
 
BonesJones said:
Here's how it's gone down and why I can't blame Noel.

1.) He was the first pick that started the Hinkie "Process". They made the playoffs the year before he got there, and blew it up and started that process by trading Jrue Holiday to the Pelicans for New Orleans' 6th pick, Nerlens Noel.

2.) He missed a year due to rehab, but was coined the cornerstone of that rebuilding process. In the off-season, the team decided to draft Embiid over other players that would've fit better next to Noel (Randle, Smart, Warren, etc.). It was the right pick, but certainly not endearing to Noel as it was obvious Embiid and him wouldn't fit next to each other. They also drafted ANOTHER big at 12 in Saric.

3.) Noel finally played as a rookie and put up great numbers while Embiid was hurt. There was still no problems from Noel, even though the team won only 18 games.

4.) Then, in the off-season, they drafted YET ANOTHER CENTER in Okafor. Now they had 3 centers and Saric waiting to come over.

To recap: Noel, once coined the cornerstone of the rebuilding process, had two centers drafted at #3 in consecutive years. I'd be pissed too.

5.) Fast forward to this year: Embiids finally healthy and playing great, Okafor is his backup at C, and Saric has come over. There was some talk that the team delayed his return from injury because of the logjam they created. Then he finally comes back and they barely play him because they have two many bigs. They barely play him even though he's a great defensive big and would be the best C on some playoff teams.

So he states how he shouldn't be playing only 8 minutes and that the organization put themselves in a spot where 1 of their 3 young centers will have to be traded. That's obvious. He's not saying he should be playing above anyone, and he never complained about the players they brought in. Embiid called him his best friend. He simply stated that he's too good to be playing 8 minutes (truth) and that the organization will have to trade one of the centers (truth).

------------------------

So given that situation, how do you figure he'd give us trouble? We haven't coined him the center of our franchise then drafted over him, made him go through sub-20 win seasons, delayed his return from injury, then benched him for the guys we drafted over him.

It's situational. He's not a bad team player or a bad teammate. I've heard many good things about him. The only thing that might've been a problem is how he treated a rental house (which we don't even know is true or not). Even if it was, he's 22. He's been in a shitty situation that's gotten the best of a (so-called) classy guy in Jahlil Okafor. Our situation would be heaven to him.
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I had forgotten who wrote this while reading this and was expecting to see BNM at the end.

Great post Bones.
 
Blazers Roy said:
I also remember hearing several times in the the Lowe Post (i think one of them was with Brett Brown) that Noel is incapable of guarding smaller guys or skilled power forwards.
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From his DraftExress profile:

"Noel shows great potential as a pick and roll defender, hedging screens on the perimeter and recovering in impressive fashion with his extremely quick feet. He shows the ability to stay in front of smaller players on the perimeter when his team decides to play a switching defense, denying penetration effectively. "

That, plus this:

"Noel possesses an exceptional combination of size, length, mobility, explosiveness and timing, which allows him to completely shut down the paint as a weak-side shot-blocker. He's extremely patient and under control with his rotations, as he can cover a tremendous amount of ground thanks to his sheer quickness, both laterally and vertically, once he commits to making himself part of the play. Noel blocks shots from well above the rim with either hand, often in demoralizing fashion..."

So, elite rim protection and good pick and roll defense. How does that not sound like something this team NEEDS?

BNM
 
BonesJones said:
You can't apply the same logic to Noel. He gets a high rate of both blocks and steals. How is that due to playing on the 76ers? Defensive stats translate no matter how good or bad the team is, offensive stats dont.
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Exactly, in fact, it makes it even more impressive. He had the 4th highest DBPM in the entire league as a 20-year old rookie playing on an 18-win team. It's hard to imagine how anyone could have a positive +/- anything playing on an 18 win team, but to have the 4th best DBPM in the entire league playing with such crappy teammates is a fucking miracle.

Usually a player's individual DRtg is largely influenced by his teammates. It's rare for a player to have a great DRtg while surrounded by poor defenders. Noel's DRtg of 99 was a full five points better than any of his teammates that played over 500 minutes. That's how advanced he was defensively compared to his other young teammates.

And then last year being forced to play out of position, next to a defensive sieve like Jahlil Okafor, he still managed to post the 8th highest DBPM in the league.

They have really misused this guys talent. Sure, now that Embiid is beasting, he's redundant and expendable, but they never should have drafted Oakafor and forced Noel to play out of position last year. They started him slowly his rookie year, and that makes sense, but after they started playing him big minutes after the all star break he averaged 13.1 pts, 10.0 reb, 2.3 blk and 2.1 stl per game in 32 minutes of playing time. Again, that was as a 20-year old rookie.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
From his DraftExress profile:

"Noel shows great potential as a pick and roll defender, hedging screens on the perimeter and recovering in impressive fashion with his extremely quick feet. He shows the ability to stay in front of smaller players on the perimeter when his team decides to play a switching defense, denying penetration effectively. "

That, plus this:

"Noel possesses an exceptional combination of size, length, mobility, explosiveness and timing, which allows him to completely shut down the paint as a weak-side shot-blocker. He's extremely patient and under control with his rotations, as he can cover a tremendous amount of ground thanks to his sheer quickness, both laterally and vertically, once he commits to making himself part of the play. Noel blocks shots from well above the rim with either hand, often in demoralizing fashion..."

So, elite rim protection and good pick and roll defense. How does that not sound like something this team NEEDS?

BNM
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That's nice but i don't see how his DraftExress profile relevant to his professional playing career.
 
BonesJones said:
If the 76ers are offering Ross and the 76ers would much rather have Ross then why hasn't the 76ers accepted the offer yet, when they've benched Noel for the foreseeable future and likely won't get better offers? Makes no sense.

I think that the Raptors have taken Ross off of the trade market. He's putting up 19 points per 36 minutes off the bench on 48/42/90 shooting splits. That's insanely good. Noel's value is dropping and they could likely find better win-now options that would come cheaper. Sullinger+Poeltl+Filler player for Bogut makes a lot more sense for them. Hell, they could do that and add a 1st round pick or two and land Vucevic.
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GSW are also in the conversation for Noel and Embiid wants him to stay so maybe the Sixers need time to decide?
 
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EL PRESIDENTE said:
Getting back Vucevic for CJ would be an L. There should be a way to get him without giving up CJ.
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We are not givig McCollum for Vucevic, that's just plain nonsense. They won't want Crabbe either. Some of Plumlee, Aminu, Leonard and Davis might work.
 
http://www.csnphilly.com/the700level/dont-trade-nerlens-noel-please

It's probably safe to say at this point that Nerlens Noel would rather not continue to play basketball on the Philadelphia 76ers. He groused in the offseason about the glut of centers on the roster, he received elective knee surgery that forced him to miss the first month and a half of the season (and rehabbed away from the team), he complained about only being played eight minutes in Friday night's loss to the Lakers and consequently played no minutes in Sunday night's win against the Nets — something he should apparently get used to for the foreseeable future. He doesn't want to be here, and his coach, general manager and teammates might not be terribly inclined to argue for him to stay at this point, either.​

The knee surgery isn't a red flag of any sort, is it?
 
Denny Crane said:
http://www.csnphilly.com/the700level/dont-trade-nerlens-noel-please

It's probably safe to say at this point that Nerlens Noel would rather not continue to play basketball on the Philadelphia 76ers. He groused in the offseason about the glut of centers on the roster, he received elective knee surgery that forced him to miss the first month and a half of the season (and rehabbed away from the team), he complained about only being played eight minutes in Friday night's loss to the Lakers and consequently played no minutes in Sunday night's win against the Nets — something he should apparently get used to for the foreseeable future. He doesn't want to be here, and his coach, general manager and teammates might not be terribly inclined to argue for him to stay at this point, either.​

The knee surgery isn't a red flag of any sort, is it?
Click to expand...

Let's see...Portland and a center who's had knee surgery. What could go wrong?
 
Sarni said:
Warriors have literally no assets to give for Noel.
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If Portland is in the discussion with Crabbe, you don't need much to get Noel. If Philadelphia really is looking to dump him for essentially nothing, any team can get in on discussions. Ian Clark is a better version of Crabbe--more efficient perimeter shooter, better passer, better defender. And paid like a tenth as much.
 
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