Marcus slimmer and quicker

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Dark Defender

Dark Defender

The Dark Passenger
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>They're in the gym at least two hours a day (mostly drills, but there's always 45 minutes of scrimmaging), and the standout has been Marcus Williams - he's slimmer, quicker, and . . . .yes, you've heard this a million times about point guards who spent their rookie seasons battling weight problems, so let's move on</div></p>

http://blog.nj.com/netsblast/2007/09/houston_update.html</p>

Fuck it, I'm going to lay all my hopes on Marcus being the quality backup pg I know he can be. </p>
 
Well those are both good things to hear. Hopefully having a year under his belt will help his game too.
 
this sounds great. i still cant believe how quickly people are to call rookies busts. rookie year is so tough for many kids for many reasons. boone mentioned some of the challanged the nba provides over collge in his article from njnets.com, longer schedule,faster gameplayer, older players, smarters players, stronger players for instance.</p>

marcus is surrounded by people who want to see him succeed and he has one of the greatest point guards of all time to learn from. the only way marcus does not make strides is if he doesnt have the mental makeup to want to become a better player. i remember when wright was drafted, at first people were upset but then saw videos of the kid and bought into rod and them saying antoine is nba ready and can help us now. then after a few games he became a bust. rookies need a few years to really come into their own whether people want to accept that or not. we are not patient as fans, especially with our captain getting older, but you need patience in this game unless if you are drafting a lebron james who can do wonders from game 1. </p>

i expect big things from marcus, like every nets fan does, but he wont be a finished product this year either. i usually wait until the 3rd year is over to really get a good read on what type of player someone will become. i think at the 4th year on most players they are the closest to a finished product. of course some players need a new place to grow after their rookie contract is up, but for those who get playing time and have the support of management i think the 3rd year really sheds light on the players' future</p>
 
oh... nice, my Marcus

If he is quicker, I believe he will be more powerful, and a better defender.

Cool.
 
While it is good to hear that marcus is dedicated and making strides--I'll believe it when I see it on the defensive side--Dave's note is kind of depressing from Antoine's perspective. Wright should NOT be getting outclassed by Marcus at this point.
 
Rookie year is difficult because you're trying to keep up with the team while at the same time your offcourt stuff is on your shoulders too, house, paying bills, deciphering between real peeps and frauds, signing graphs. Once he finds a circle of friends that he trusts handlers of the smallest things, etc. those things tend to be less of a deviant in the 2nd year as you've been through the vigors once. He will be a much improved player and it will show on the court, on a more consistent basis.
 
I'm not such a big Nets fan, but this is definitely good news for both the team and the league overall. No doubt the Nets management has had the possibility of a Kidd trade at the front of their minds for some time. Marcus is not going to be an elite, top of the shelf point guard like the guys who came out of the previous year's draft class(Paul, Williams, Felton), but if he can show that he can handle the starting point guard duties for an NBA team(and I think he will), then the Nets can ship Kidd and rest more easily than before. </p>

Not only would a Jason Kidd trade shore up some other championship contender, and make the playoffs that much more exciting, but if the Nets can pull in an elite power forward, that would work wonders for them. I'm thinking a three way trade here, maybe one involving Memphis and the Lakers, with Kidd going to LA, Odom going to the Grizz, and Pau Gasol going to NJ. I haven't plugged in the salary numbers for that, but could you imagine an improved Williams, averaging maybe 14 and 7 or 13 and 8, dishing to VC and RJ on the wings, with Pau and Nenad in the low and high posts? Definitely a EC contender.</p>
 
Sounds good, but as Dumpy said, I'll believe it when I see it. At least he's working to get better, and the fact that he's quicker should help him tremendously on the defensive end . . . if of course he tries to play defense.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB)</div><div class='quotemain'>Sounds good, but as Dumpy said, I'll believe it when I see it. At least he's working to get better, and the fact that he's quicker should help him tremendously on the defensive end . . . if of course he tries to play defense.</div></p>

Aren't bull fighters pretty quick </p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jirohkanzaki)</div><div class='quotemain'>

</p>

deron williams part 2</p></div>

</p> hm, not quite that good...and he won't be able to fully show how good he is, either. he won't be starting point, still backup point guard. hopefully, tho, he can give kidd a rest a bit more. that's all we've ever asked for.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (starman85)</div><div class='quotemain'>

I'm not such a big Nets fan, but this is definitely good news for both the team and the league overall. No doubt the Nets management has had the possibility of a Kidd trade at the front of their minds for some time. Marcus is not going to be an elite, top of the shelf point guard like the guys who came out of the previous year's draft class(Paul, Williams, Felton), but if he can show that he can handle the starting point guard duties for an NBA team(and I think he will), then the Nets can ship Kidd and rest more easily than before. </p>

Not only would a Jason Kidd trade shore up some other championship contender, and make the playoffs that much more exciting, but if the Nets can pull in an elite power forward, that would work wonders for them. I'm thinking a three way trade here, maybe one involving Memphis and the Lakers, with Kidd going to LA, Odom going to the Grizz, and Pau Gasol going to NJ. I haven't plugged in the salary numbers for that, but could you imagine an improved Williams, averaging maybe 14 and 7 or 13 and 8, dishing to VC and RJ on the wings, with Pau and Nenad in the low and high posts? Definitely a EC contender.</p>

</div></p>

Unless Marcus morphs into an entirely new player, no team is a contender with him starting. </p>

And if the Nets trade Kidd, Carter better be right on his heels on his way out of town.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jirohkanzaki)</div><div class='quotemain'>

</p>

deron williams part 2</p>

</div></p>

We wish.</p>

I guess the offseason has a way of fading memories.</p>

It will take about one quarter of the first game to remind you that Marcus Williams is a loooooong way from that level.</p>

</p>

</p>
 
I don't think marcus is a long way from Deron Williams, if he is slimmer, and quicker, he won't be that worse than Deron.</p>

Don't forget Marcus fought with Suns Starters in his rookie year, Deron is really bad with the USA team.</p>
 
For God's sake, Marcus isnt even close to Deron's level other than his court vision. Deron is a starting pg who can lead an offense for a game(Marcus can barely do so for 5 minutes), play good defense(Marcus asks: what's defense?"), and has a solid offensive game(Marcus=in your face jumper or middle of lane floater!......CLANK!) </p>

If Marcus wants to be a quality backup pg on this team, he needs to improve in some important areas, which will hopefully improve somewhat just by a year's experience.</p>

And if you are unaware of what he needs to improve on, here is two of the most glaring weaknesses of Marcus Williams: DEFENSE(improven by watching game tapes, practicing, experience. This is Marcus' biggest weakness) and decision-making(improven by experience and mentality to the game. The passing mistakes and in your face jumpers need to decrease by a lot).</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L)</div><div class='quotemain'>

For God's sake, Marcus isnt even close to Deron's level other than his court vision. Deron is a starting pg who can lead an offense for a game(Marcus can barely do so for 5 minutes), play good defense(Marcus asks: what's defense?"), and has a solid offensive game(Marcus=in your face jumper or middle of lane floater!......CLANK!) </p>

If Marcus wants to be a quality backup pg on this team, he needs to improve in some important areas, which will hopefully improve somewhat just by a year's experience.</p>

And if you are unaware of what he needs to improve on, here is two of the most glaring weaknesses of Marcus Williams: DEFENSE(improven by watching game tapes, practicing, experience. This is Marcus' biggest weakness) and decision-making(improven by experience and mentality to the game. The passing mistakes and in your face jumpers need to decrease by a lot).</p>

</p></div>

I agree totally. We all are Nets fans and we love our team and players, but you cant forget the past completely or become blind due to write-ups and reviews. Until we see Marcus do everything from summer league and pre-season during a regular season, its all just hype.</p>
 
Marcus Williams has the skills to be an NBA starting PG. His success depends a lot on the players around him. Can they score, can they defend behind him? Deron has set the bar very high for Marcus......but that seems this board is comparing Marcus to Deron. It hink if Marcus can play like Marcus can, then we should be fine in the PG department for another 5-8 seasons. WE will get more consistent play from him this season.
 
I'm still confident that Marcus Williams can be an NBA starting point guard. I'm confident he has the skill set to, at the very least, be an average starting NBA point guard, assuming he works hard enough. I don't know if he's going to be Chris Paul/Deron Williams good, but I think he's got the talent to be a starter.</p>

Many good players don't look paticularly great their rookie year - this is doubly true for point guards. I expect Marcus to get moderately better defensively, but I would not be surprised if his offense improved by leaps and bounds. He is learning under Kidd, after all. He always showed a ton of promise on that side of the floor last year, he just couldn't get it together. That's exactly the type of stuff that tends to improve in sophmore seasons.</p>

All I'm trying to say is we don't know ANYTHING at this point. There are a million directions his career could go at this point.</p>
 
Deron is a year and a half older than Marcus. 18 months! As a rookie, he played roughly 1,000 more minutes--2300 to 1300--that's over 75% more minutes than Marcus! Yet as a rookie, Deron scored just 10.8 points a game, on 42% shooting, with 4.5 assists per game and 1.8 turnovers per game.</p>

marcus scored 6.8 points per game and averaged 3.3 assists. At the same rate, had he played the same number of minutes as a rookie as Deron did, he would have scored 12.0 points per game and dished out 5.8 assists. He shot slightly lower from the field (39%) but MUCH higher from the line (84%). Yes, Marcus is bad on defense--according toDean Oliver's defensive rating calculation, he comes out at 109, when the league average is 106 (lower is better). But Deron is just as bad--his rating each ofhis first two years was 110 (this stat, by the way, incorporates a number of assumptions, and I'm not convinced that it is entirely valid, but it seems to do a reasonable job separating defenders into discrete categories).</p>

Deron made a huge jump his second year. Marcus could, too. But remember, he is still YOUNGER than Deron was when he was a rookie. Give the kid some slack.</p>Some of you hate Marcus and think he won't amount to anything. We get it. I prefer to wait and see.
 
Split stats for Marcus as a rookie and then Deron as a rookie</p><h3>Month</h3> <pre> +------------------------------------------------------------------+------------+------------------+
| Total | Shooting | Per Game |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+------------+------------------+
Split | G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS| FG% 3P% FT%| MP PTS TRB AST|
+---------+---+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+
November | 15 281 47 114 6 34 21 23 34 43 2 1 27 24 121| 41 18 91| 19 8.1 2.3 2.9|
December | 15 227 32 91 11 33 1 1 19 44 10 0 21 16 76| 35 33 100| 15 5.1 1.3 2.9|
January | 13 206 38 78 11 25 17 21 29 40 9 0 22 10 104| 49 44 81| 16 8.0 2.2 3.1|
February | 12 250 48 109 9 30 22 26 36 45 5 1 30 12 127| 44 30 85| 21 10.6 3.0 3.8|
March | 15 220 27 85 3 21 11 13 24 57 2 0 23 26 68| 32 14 85| 15 4.5 1.6 3.8|
April | 9 128 16 49 6 20 0 1 21 31 1 0 19 8 38| 33 30 0| 14 4.2 2.3 3.4|
+---------+---+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+
</pre>

</p><h3>Month</h3> <pre> +------------------------------------------------------------------+------------+------------------+
| Total | Shooting | Per Game |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+------------+------------------+
Split | G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS| FG% 3P% FT%| MP PTS TRB AST|
+---------+---+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+
November | 15 465 75 186 21 56 33 45 43 73 13 4 38 43 204| 40 38 73| 31 13.6 2.9 4.9|
December | 14 418 48 136 8 35 11 16 41 69 10 4 25 46 115| 35 23 69| 30 8.2 2.9 4.9|
January | 15 284 41 105 7 25 18 26 20 35 14 1 20 29 107| 39 28 69| 19 7.1 1.3 2.3|
February | 10 273 35 83 12 19 7 13 27 34 6 0 21 30 89| 42 63 54| 27 8.9 2.7 3.4|
March | 16 511 84 173 27 51 16 24 39 82 11 6 27 53 211| 49 53 67| 32 13.2 2.4 5.1|
April | 10 358 56 122 16 33 10 11 24 66 6 2 14 32 138| 46 48 91| 36 13.8 2.4 6.6|
+---------+---+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+
</pre>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Deron is a year and a half older than Marcus. 18 months! As a rookie, he played roughly 1,000 more minutes--2300 to 1300--that's over 75% more minutes than Marcus! Yet as a rookie, Deron scored just 10.8 points a game, on 42% shooting, with 4.5 assists per game and 1.8 turnovers per game.</p>

marcus scored 6.8 points per game and averaged 3.3 assists. At the same rate, had he played the same number of minutes as a rookie as Deron did, he would have scored 12.0 points per game and dished out 5.8 assists. He shot slightly lower from the field (39%) but MUCH higher from the line (84%). Yes, Marcus is bad on defense--according to Dean Oliver's defensive rating calculation, he comes out at 109, when the league average is 106 (lower is better). But Deron is just as bad--his rating each of his first two years was 110 (this stat, by the way, incorporates a number of assumptions, and I'm not convinced that it is entirely valid, but it seems to do a reasonable job separating defenders into discrete categories).</p>

Deron made a huge jump his second year. Marcus could, too. But remember, he is still YOUNGER than Deron was when he was a rookie. Give the kid some slack.</p>Some of you hate Marcus and think he won't amount to anything. We get it. I prefer to wait and see.</div>

</p>

wow, i thought Deron was a really good defender....?? this surprises me.</p>

any Utah fans who can inform us on this? </p>
 
1 FTA in 9 games in April for Marcus?? wow. that's just weird.
 
the splits were interesting. March and April were Marcus' two worst months, while they were Deron's two BEST months. For the first four months of their rookie years, their rookie seasons were much more similar. get this: Through their first four months of their rookie seasons, Deron averaged 9.5 points, 3.9 assists, and 2.4 rebounds in 26.6 minutes on 39% shooting (!!). Marcus averaged 7.8 points, 3.1 assists, 2.1 rebounds in 17.5 minutes, on 42% shooting (take that, Deron).</p>

They just diverged drastically over the last two months. You can come up with theories as to WHY Marcus slumped, but the bottom line is that over the first four months of his rookie season, they were comparable.</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'>

but the bottom line is that over the first four months of his rookie season, they were comparable.</p>

</div></p>

They were statistically comparable. If you watched them both play, there is no comparison </p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'>

but the bottom line is that over the first four months of his rookie season, they were comparable.</p>

</div></p>

They were statistically comparable. If you watched them both play, there is no comparison </p>

</p></div>

From the objective to the subjective. How often did you watch Deron play during the first four months of his rookie year? Can you separate the last two months of Marcus' season from the first four in your mind?</p>

The largest black mark on Marcus' record during those months is the turnovers--the same number as Deron, in roughly 500 fewer minutes. He also had significantly fewer steals. However, Marcus also committed less than half the personal fouls that Deron did.</p>
 
Deron Williams was the 4th overall pick in a relatively weak draft. Marcus Williams was the 22nd pick in a stronger draft, and he probably fell about 10 spots due to questions about his attitude and character. Even if Marcus had been drafted in the lottery, that's still a huge difference. It's unfair to expect Marcus to turn into Deron Williams - there are plenty of reasons as to why that won't happen. But if Marcus can be 3/4 the player Deron is, well, that'd be fantastic for us. And that doesn't seem unreasonable.</p>
 
He is going to be great for us this year. I agree with the guy that said Deron Williams part 2. I think Marcus has the talent and heart to be one of the better point guards in the league. His time may be coming sooner then you think.
 
He definitely has the ability/talent to be a very good pg, but again I must stress his flaws until we have seen he has learned from them. Deron made a huge jump. Dont think every rookie pg who had a bad year will make a jump like he did. Can Marcus be as good as Deron? Yes. But will we actually make the jump? Possibly, but dont bet on it.</p>

</p>

And note, im not giving up on this kid after a year. That is by all means ridiculous to do. I am just pointing out that one shouldnt expect a "deron williams improvement"</p>
 
Dave D said it takes more than one year for rookie point gaurds to truly develop, and most of that development is mentally. </p>

So to give up on Marcus Williams now would be ridicliously dumb.</p>
 
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