Marcus Williams' comeback so far

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i have such low expectations for marcus, that anything positive he does impresses me. and he hasn't impressed me.
 
In Summer League he didnt show much improvement in the areas he needed to work on the most(most importantly defense).
Plus, the Marcus of last year, or at least towards the end of last year was crap and played like a poor version of the current Damon Stoudamire.

Im not saying the talent isnt there, but until he gets his head out of his asson the offensive end and not be a swinging door on defense, Im going to keep knocking on his game. There is still hope, for he is a young pg and most of the time they take a while to develop, but until he gets out of this funk, again, i will downplay him.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Dec 22 2007, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you don't earn playing time, you aren't going to get it, it's that simple.</div>

Spoken like someone who has never played a sport...thats a mindset that won't work in terms of developing players. The fact is this team has never given Marcus the right shot. Jason Kidd should only be playing 32 minutes a night right now...Marcus should be seeing the other 16 minutes needed to be filled at PG. The problem last year was that we played Marcus at SG alot with Vaughn and Kidd in the game which stunts his development as a PG.

Also PG is a tough position...they tend to need more time to develop as pros. Deron Williams sucked his first year now a lot of people would love to have him on there team.

Most young players in this league get there shot do to injury...not cause they earn it. Only by being force fed minutes do players become better...nobody gets better in practice because in the immortal words of Allen Iverson "We're talking about practice"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Marcus was Knick, 99% of you would be talking about how much he sucks.

Take off the Nets glasses</div>

If he was on the Knicks he'd be there starting PG and we'd all be complaining about why didn't we take that Marcus Williams.

And those people that would say that are the same people who say David Lee and Renaldo Balkman sucks...aka idiots.
 
Ok, he sucks, lets play him more.

Good call, coach.


Then again, I've never played any sports, I don't even know basketball, why do I bother discussing it?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Marcus was Knick, 99% of you would be talking about how much he sucks.

Take off the Nets glasses</div>
lmao, most of us wouldnt have paid attention to him. Hell, Balkman and lee ar eon the Knicks and most of us want them.

Take off your Zoran glasses for once.
</div>

Balkman and Lee don't suck

You really need to learn how to make a proper comparison.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 22 2007, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If he was on the Knicks he'd be there starting PG and we'd all be complaining about why didn't we take that Marcus Williams.</div>

Not a chance in hell. Marcus wouldn't be able to outplay Collins
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Marcus was Knick, 99% of you would be talking about how much he sucks.

Take off the Nets glasses</div>
lmao, most of us wouldnt have paid attention to him. Hell, Balkman and lee ar eon the Knicks and most of us want them.

Take off your Zoran glasses for once.
</div>

Balkman and Lee don't suck

You really need to learn how to make a proper comparison.
</div>

interesting, espcially after you posted this when we drafted Marcus:

"Kudos to Thorn on a late lottery steal"

You know, for being such a old guy, you really don't know how to give young players a chance. you must have written off guys like Boki and Klieza as well
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 22 2007, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If he was on the Knicks he'd be there starting PG and we'd all be complaining about why didn't we take that Marcus Williams.</div>

Not a chance in hell. Marcus wouldn't be able to outplay Collins
</div>
lmao, you're really pushing here. just stop arguing for arguments sake before you say some really dumb stuff. How has Mardy Collins played this year?
 
To many Ghoti clones here, ppl need to have opinions of there owns. If Marcus was white, have of these guys would be drooling over him and giving him more leeway.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>interesting, espcially after you posted this when we drafted Marcus:

"Kudos to Thorn on a late lottery steal"

You know, for being such a old guy, you really don't know how to give young players a chance. you must have written off guys like Boki and Klieza as well</div>

So you really want to play the pull out old statements game? Especially without links and especially with your normal lack of logic?

Try to follow along. Marcus received playing time last season and demonstrated that he sucks. He was given enough rope and hung himself.

Me writing off young guys that weren't given a chance? Damn, it would be hard to make a more idiotic statement.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>
Not a chance in hell. Marcus wouldn't be able to outplay Collins</div>
lmao, you're really pushing here. just stop arguing for arguments sake before you say some really dumb stuff. How has Mardy Collins played this year?
</div>

It doesn't matter how he has played this season. Marcus couldn't outplay him
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To many Ghoti clones here, ppl need to have opinions of there owns. If Marcus was white, have of these guys would be drooling over him and giving him more leeway.</div>

Quoted because it is so idiotic
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>interesting, espcially after you posted this when we drafted Marcus:

"Kudos to Thorn on a late lottery steal"

You know, for being such a old guy, you really don't know how to give young players a chance. you must have written off guys like Boki and Klieza as well</div>

So you really want to play the pull out old statements game? Especially without links and especially with your normal lack of logic?

Try to follow along. Marcus received playing time last season and demonstrated that he sucks. He was given enough rope and hung himself.

Me writing off young guys that weren't given a chance? Damn, it would be hard to make a more idiotic statement.
</div>


Nope, bottom line, although you think he sucks and should be waived, Thorn strongly disagrees so you're wrong. Face it
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>
Not a chance in hell. Marcus wouldn't be able to outplay Collins</div>
lmao, you're really pushing here. just stop arguing for arguments sake before you say some really dumb stuff. How has Mardy Collins played this year?
</div>

It doesn't matter how he has played this season. Marcus couldn't outplay him
</div>
You dont know that, sorry, you're assumptions dont count as fact
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To many Ghoti clones here, ppl need to have opinions of there owns. If Marcus was white, have of these guys would be drooling over him and giving him more leeway.</div>

Quoted because it is so idiotic
</div>
quoted
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 22 2007, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Dec 22 2007, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you don't earn playing time, you aren't going to get it, it's that simple.</div>

Spoken like someone who has never played a sport...thats a mindset that won't work in terms of developing players. The fact is this team has never given Marcus the right shot. Jason Kidd should only be playing 32 minutes a night right now...Marcus should be seeing the other 16 minutes needed to be filled at PG. The problem last year was that we played Marcus at SG alot with Vaughn and Kidd in the game which stunts his development as a PG.</div>

Oh BS. How you play in practice can directly affect the amount of playing time you see. For all we know, Marcus could be goofing of in practice and not giving his all. If he is, it explains a lot.

And Vaughn was not on the team last year. Don't know where that come from.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Also PG is a tough position...they tend to need more time to develop as pros. Deron Williams sucked his first year now a lot of people would love to have him on there team.</div>

There's a reason Deron was a top 3 pick and Marcus fell out of the top 20. Don't compare the two. Ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Most young players in this league get there shot do to injury...not cause they earn it. Only by being force fed minutes do players become better...nobody gets better in practice because in the immortal words of Allen Iverson "We're talking about practice"</div>

The fact that you keep writing off practice as invaluable is laughable.
 
Lets just waive Marcus and sign Zoran again. I wan to see what Cpaw has to say after Zoran has his first HORRIBLE GAME, which should start as soon as he enters.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 22 2007, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Spoken like someone who has never played a sport...thats a mindset that won't work in terms of developing players. The fact is this team has never given Marcus the right shot. Jason Kidd should only be playing 32 minutes a night right now...Marcus should be seeing the other 16 minutes needed to be filled at PG. The problem last year was that we played Marcus at SG alot with Vaughn and Kidd in the game which stunts his development as a PG.

Also PG is a tough position...they tend to need more time to develop as pros. Deron Williams sucked his first year now a lot of people would love to have him on there team.

Most young players in this league get there shot do to injury...not cause they earn it. Only by being force fed minutes do players become better...nobody gets better in practice because in the immortal words of Allen Iverson "We're talking about practice"</div>


First of all, saying I never played a sport has nothing to do with anything, and you have no basis for doing that. Don't try to discredit me or detract from the discussion, because you have no basis to say such an idiotic statement.

Vaughn wasn't on the team last year. Marcus would get the minutes if he showed he was a competent player when he played. Marcus was handed the backup PG spot, and LOST it, because of his regression. He regressed throughout the season to the point where he had his shot, but since he got worse as the season progressed, his minutes were cut. Look at his splits. By the end of the year, he was producing much worse per minute due to his regression, and his defense was piss-poor, which won't show up in stats.

Deron Williams was a top 3 pick, and did not 'suck his first year'. Marcus was the 22nd pick. There is a big difference there.

Lastly, practice is not useless, and if you are living by the words of AI, all is already lost. "Practice makes perfect!"
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Dec 23 2007, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 22 2007, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Spoken like someone who has never played a sport...thats a mindset that won't work in terms of developing players. The fact is this team has never given Marcus the right shot. Jason Kidd should only be playing 32 minutes a night right now...Marcus should be seeing the other 16 minutes needed to be filled at PG. The problem last year was that we played Marcus at SG alot with Vaughn and Kidd in the game which stunts his development as a PG.

Also PG is a tough position...they tend to need more time to develop as pros. Deron Williams sucked his first year now a lot of people would love to have him on there team.

Most young players in this league get there shot do to injury...not cause they earn it. Only by being force fed minutes do players become better...nobody gets better in practice because in the immortal words of Allen Iverson "We're talking about practice"</div>


First of all, saying I never played a sport has nothing to do with anything, and you have no basis for doing that. Don't try to discredit me or detract from the discussion, because you have no basis to say such an idiotic statement.

Vaughn wasn't on the team last year. Marcus would get the minutes if he showed he was a competent player when he played. Marcus was handed the backup PG spot, and LOST it, because of his regression. He regressed throughout the season to the point where he had his shot, but since he got worse as the season progressed, his minutes were cut. Look at his splits. By the end of the year, he was producing much worse per minute due to his regression, and his defense was piss-poor, which won't show up in stats.

Deron Williams was a top 3 pick, and did not 'suck his first year'. Marcus was the 22nd pick. There is a big difference there.

Lastly, practice is not useless, and if you are living by the words of AI, all is already lost. "Practice makes perfect!"
</div>

Practice doesn't make perfect. practice makes permanent...most professional athletes don't go all out in practice due to the fact they have to play 82+ games a year therefore a young player who doesn't get minutes never develops the ability to get into the flow of the game. Deron did kinda suck as a rookie. He had a solid second year though.
 
Nothing is gonna make a coach play a rookie more than not going all out in practice!

"Hey this guy is wisely saving his energy for the games, so when we play him during the season, he will own everyone on the court!"


He musta REALLY sucked at defense in practice then, because he looked like a snail during games on D.
 
Deron didn't RE-gress through the season, he PRO-gressed. That's the difference.

Deron sucked as a rookie, now he kinda sucked, next thing you know, he never sucked as a rookie!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Dec 23 2007, 07:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Deron didn't RE-gress through the season, he PRO-gressed. That's the difference.

Deron sucked as a rookie, now he kinda sucked, next thing you know, he never sucked as a rookie!</div>
Dude lawrence frank was playing Marcus at SG...its a completely different position with different responsibilties. Anyone would regress with a coach like Frank.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 23 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Dec 23 2007, 07:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Deron didn't RE-gress through the season, he PRO-gressed. That's the difference.

Deron sucked as a rookie, now he kinda sucked, next thing you know, he never sucked as a rookie!</div>
Dude lawrence frank was playing Marcus at SG...its a completely different position with different responsibilties. Anyone would regress with a coach like Frank.
</div>

It's also a position that Marcus played better at while on the court. Better PER at SG, and better opponent PER at SG

Furthermore, the team played fairly well when Marcus was in the game with Kidd (see lineup #9)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 22 2007, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 22 2007, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>interesting, espcially after you posted this when we drafted Marcus:

"Kudos to Thorn on a late lottery steal"

You know, for being such a old guy, you really don't know how to give young players a chance. you must have written off guys like Boki and Klieza as well</div>

So you really want to play the pull out old statements game? Especially without links and especially with your normal lack of logic?

Try to follow along. Marcus received playing time last season and demonstrated that he sucks. He was given enough rope and hung himself.

Me writing off young guys that weren't given a chance? Damn, it would be hard to make a more idiotic statement.
</div>


Nope, bottom line, although you think he sucks and should be waived, Thorn strongly disagrees so you're wrong. Face it
</div>
Jizzy, you are being illogical. Thorn isnt always right. Marcus is mediocre but if you honestly think he is a good pg right now and even last season then you are greatly mistaken.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Dec 23 2007, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 23 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Dec 23 2007, 07:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Deron didn't RE-gress through the season, he PRO-gressed. That's the difference.

Deron sucked as a rookie, now he kinda sucked, next thing you know, he never sucked as a rookie!</div>
Dude lawrence frank was playing Marcus at SG...its a completely different position with different responsibilties. Anyone would regress with a coach like Frank.
</div>

It's also a position that Marcus played better at while on the court. Better PER at SG, and better opponent PER at SG

Furthermore, the team played fairly well when Marcus was in the game with Kidd (see lineup #9)
</div>

I still don't like it but my bad I didn't realize his play was stronger at SG...good site thanks for the link. Also just to clarify I have never heard nor did I say Marcus didn't practice hard or that he dogged it in practice. I just said that it's hard to get better in practice. You can't get used to the speed of the game, or develop a rythym unless you're in the game. Teamates tend to not play eachother as hard as the opposition.

As for the line delivered to KC but one you also read...ok saying "spoken like someone who has never played the game" may be immature and assholish of me but the statement about practice reminded me of something Chris Russo said one time and my opinion of him has always been that he talks a lot of trash and he never actually played the game.
 
I cant believe ppl think Marcus is a bad backup or bad player overall. Sure his rookie season wasnt great but in no way was it bad. What position do you think is the hardest to play as a rookie in the NBA??? This year he hasnt found his groove yet he only played 3 games sure he needs work but the guy just came back from a foot injury he will be fine and help the nets down the road.
 
Marcus is earning the same thing that you guys threw into Josh Boone, said Boone is a bum, Boone sucks... whatever..

He just came off surgery and tried to finding his true games, after two fucking games, you say he has no significant improvement, what would you expect a shopomore coming off surgery, and could be so good right now?
 
The funny thing is that Marcus didn't attempt many shots in the warriors games, and making zero turnover.

What did you guy like to say about him? A PG likes to shoot by himself? A PG who is very turnover prone? Oh... So what now? Did he just shoot like 1/10 against warriors and with 5 turnovers?
 
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