"Marine: U.S. lost ‘moral high ground at Gitmo"

[MrJayremmie]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33023517/ns/world_news-terrorism

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - The Marine commander who built the Guantanamo Bay prison said Thursday the U.S. lost the "moral high ground" with its brutal treatment of prisoners, and the facility should be closed as quickly as possible.

He said he was given little guidance from the Pentagon, but he did have his staff read the Geneva Conventions, the international agreements governing treatment of prisoners.

"I wanted to run it close to Geneva Convention rules," Lehnert said. "Our job was to take them out of the fight, and once we had done that, I felt we had a moral responsibility to take care of them."

However, another task force was put in charge of interrogating detainees, and there were disagreements over their treatment, Lehnert said.

"I think it is extraordinarily important how we treat prisoners," he said. "Obviously, there were other views."

"Probably before I left Guantanamo, I was of the opinion it needed to go away as soon as possible," he said.

The general said he didn't feel the U.S. would get much useful information by using the techniques.

"I think we lost the moral high ground," he said.

 

[MrJayremmie]

AP: Gitmo might not close by Jan. deadline

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-25-gitmo-closing_N.htm?csp=15

 

[MrJayremmie]

Well there you go, one Marine's opinion. And he is very qualified to talk on this matter. I also couldn't agree with him more.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Unfortunately, war is a terrible business and you have to do terrible things to win.

 

[bluefrog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Unfortunately, war is a terrible business and you have to do terrible things to win.

You're recommending we drop high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on Gitmo?

Seriously though, I see your point and I agree to the extent that these things are a ugly necessity to win a war. But this is not a conventional war, it's a "war on terror".

We're not fighting a nation or an ally of nations. It's like declaring war on the Mafia or Klu Klux Klan. You can't just lump the whole region into "enemy territory". These terrorist are just as much the enemy of the US as they are of the majority of people in the Middle East.

Keeping the moral high ground is essential in winning or we are likely to create more terrorist by showing indifference to the culture and religion. This has been echoed by those running the wars in the Middle East

 

[Denny Crane]

You're recommending we drop high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on Gitmo?

Seriously though, I see your point and I agree to the extent that these things are a ugly necessity to win a war. But this is not a conventional war, it's a "war on terror".

We're not fighting a nation or an ally of nations. It's like declaring war on the Mafia or Klu Klux Klan. You can't just lump the whole region into "enemy territory". These terrorist are just as much the enemy of the US as they are of the majority of people in the Middle East.

Keeping the moral high ground is essential in winning or we are likely to create more terrorist by showing indifference to the culture and religion. This has been echoed by those running the wars in the Middle East

I've never seen anyone suggest a reasonable alternative to something like Gitmo. The guys imprisoned there are not criminals, not arrested committing some crime. They're something like POWs, and Gitmo does resemble a POW camp.

As for the "torture," I don't see any moral high ground issue. It is still a war - we have troops on the ground and they're being shot at. The war may be asymmetric, but that doesn't preclude us from doing what it takes to win. I don't see any new terrorists made by reports of "torture" - if anything it would give the enemy some reason to pause before beheading the next westerner they've kidnapped. In fact, the beheadings have seemed to cease, and the terrorists are losing popularity because they're hurting and killing civilians.

 

[MARIS61]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Unfortunately, war is a terrible business and you have to do terrible things to win.

You are correct that it is strictly a "business".

You are mistaken that we must participate.

 

[maxiep]

Golly, if we just treat them well, they'll love us!

Bullshit. Middle Eastern culture respects strength, not mercy. I don't give a shit about the moral high ground. I want these people to know if they hide behind women and children, if they kill innocents, they're not going to paradise, but be trapped in a living hell until their lives mercifully end a few decades from now.