Mariota vs the Ducks

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Mediocre Man

Mediocre Man

Mr. SportsTwo
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So is Mariota extremely special, or is it the Ducks that are really good? Take him off the team last night and we lose by double digits. Maybe lose to MSU as well
 
Both? Mariota is incredibly special. Maybe best PAC player since Bush? but IMO with a healthy oline last night isn't as big of a problem, and we get it done with Lockie. The team is absolutely stacked at almost very position. So the Ducks are very good, but it's a special player like Marcus that elevates them to that extra level/ next gear. (As is often the case with championship level teams)
 
Mariota made it look easy despite absolutely NO help from his O-Line. Sacked 7 times? How many false starts? Yet, when we needed big plays he came through. What a great find by the coaching staff. At this point I see no way he doesn't go #1.

Oh, and I'm sorry, but Pellum. You need to put more pressure on the defensive line. Halladay was just sitting there with all the time in the world to have a field day.
 
The Ducks are weak in the trenches (on both sides of the ball), have some talent at the skill positions, and without MM would be struggling to be bowl eligible.

My prediction is that the current coaching staff doesn't survive next season.
 
Helfrich will survive, he found Marcus for goodness sakes, Mahalak and Waller look like Marcus more and more by the week. We have three O lineman out and that's HUGE!!! Two All Americans to boot!! Chemistry at the level needed now on the O line doesn't happen overnight. To be honest I knew the Cougs would come for Marcus and hard with that much inexperience going on for us. The Cougs are not a good defense at all, it's cause for concern to be sure. I applaud Crosby for his grit and learning on the fly. That said, we survived, and have a week and a half to get it together and get healthy. Perfect timing I'd say!

As for Pellum and his prevent D.... I agree, if he can't bring more than not giving up the deep ball with no pressure on the QB for halves at a time he'll be out quickly. We should have lobbied Orgeron at the end of last year and let him turn this soft D around. Ed can recruit top talent on both coasts and as much attention as our defense needs it truly will feel like a head coaching position. No one has the facilities that Oregon does and if Ed truly wants a head coaching spot again, taking the Ducks to a national championship will catapult him into that discussion instantly.

As for the D:

There is no way to defend what our defense has been doing the last 4 games giving up that 15 yard and under cushion passes to anyone that can throw a spiral. The 3-4 was designed to take the short pass away! We are getting crushed here, the 3-4 is also susceptible to the inside run. Hmmm does that sound familiar? Stanford, AZ LSU and Auburn all attacked us between the tackles and now we're giving up the only thing this defense is supposed to do well. For those preaching hybrid 3-4, 4-3's, who tell you that bringing up a LB or using a converted TE as a drop DE and putting his hand in the dirt to create a 4-3 look and how well it works, please remember Dion Jordan's don't grow off trees. Judging by our losses over the last few years and HOW there seems to be real advantages to bringing in another TRUE D lineman who can get some real penetrating or at the least help stop the massive bleeding when teams like Stanford play with essentially a jumbo package all game.

You play the 3-4 if you have Sapp, Fairley and Suh as your 3 D lineman, than you need amazing LB's not just good to crash the gaps. We don't have that amazing group of LB's. Further with our secondary basically playing prevent the whole middle of the field becomes a massive target. This is what happening!

That said our D line of AA, Balducci and Buckner are not to blame here! They just need another man up there to help. The problem is our prevent nickel packages primarily in the secondary and our ghost town of first half blitzes or anything that makes a QB think that contact is actually part of football is killing us. The Pac 12 has a slew of good/great QB's slinging the ball around this year. The Ducks just can't let these guys stand around in the pocket ordering pizza's in the first half with that amount of time. When your seeing a QB read his progressions twice he has to much damn time in the pocket. As a side note Mathis is getting torched out there due to his size, it's time to find an alternative.

My thought is the O line will become healthy at the right time and Marcus will be Marcus. That said if our D can't play at least three decent quarters the thought of beating Bama, Oklahoma, Texas A&M with there huge receivers or Auburn with their gouging inside runs is laughable! After watching the size of the Sooners lines and the grit and depth of position of Bama "like always", and the weapons A&M has, right now I'd say Oregon in honesty is the 5th best team and that's with the best QB in the game running our show with arguably a top three backfield in the nation.

That's how soft our D looks. I don't think its the players it's the play calling!
 
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I feel like our shitty defense is going to blow MM's shot at a championship.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I feel like our shitty defense is going to blow MM's shot at a championship.
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DT is in a dive bar somewhere telling anyone who will listen that Mariota may be a 1st round pick, but HE won a Pac championship!
 
Mariota is a REALLY good quarterback but let's not pretend that he's beyond reproach but at the same time he's also Oregon's best player. With that said, Mariota tends to hold the ball FAR, FAR, to long and I would say with confidence that 5 of his sacks was because he held onto the ball longer than what he should have. When a QB does that and the D-Line is getting close to him then it only motivates that line to play harder. Get rid of the ball when the pocket breaks down and live for another down. Mariota was 21-25 passing but he was being selfish on his statistics by taking the sacks instead of throwing the ball away, otherwise he would have been 21-30 passing. The question I pose is this: Would the Ducks have been better with Mariota going 21-30 with 2 sacks versus 21-25 with 7 sacks?

The situation with the O-line is a problem and an understandable one at that but lets only hope it's temporary. By the way, anyone notice that the less the Ducks play in space the more injuries that are happening to the O-Line?

Rich Brooks got the Ducks to the Rose Bowl from scratch.
Bellotti brought stability to the Ducks and a Rose Bowl.
Chip took the program to the NTG AND a win in the Rose Bowl.
Helfrich, Pellum, and Frost seem hell bent on doing everything their way when they've had excellent predecessors and tenure.

I understand that we're (The Ducks) are going to lose games in the future and I don't expect to go 15-0 every single year. I guess my concern is about a window closing when we have so much talent on this team compared to other teams. If that window closes because we have a lack of talent from the players then I can understand that but it appears that the window is closing because of the coaching staff and that's where I have an issue.

I'm going out on a limb and possibly a tangent here (So I apologize in advance for that) but I want to say that BBK (Brooks, Bellotti, and Kelly) all had at least 1 risky player that they took a flyer on that was a difference maker. Trust me when I can drop names but were all duck fans and we should remember who they are; I'm just trying to save your eyes from bleeding anymore than they already are...:-) Where's Helfrich's flyer? Are we running a church? Can we call him father Helfrich? Give the team at least one nasty guy......
 
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Nasty players just for you 1honestfan:

I have a couple of sleepers for you already on campus,

1. Eggert 6-7 310 freshman O lineman who will play next year. This kid has a mean streak in him. Guess he got amped up in practice once this year already and took out half the D line. This kid can also move for someone who could most benefit from some more flattering shirts. Once they cut his weight down, Rolls will be given holes to run behind that a Buick could fit through.

2. At some point Danny Mattingly will make his presence felt weekly. This kid hit's like Alonzo but is bigger than Colt. As an LB he'll strike fear in RB's and QB's. Another that loves to put a hat on someone.

3. Glen Ihenacho is my favorite "no one saw him coming nightmare" for nasty paint layer to be. This kid was overshadowed in high school by Adore Jackson at Serra but check out his game tapes. This kid will make you pay for testing him in the secondary. He reminds me of Lott the way he hits. Hits through you!

A backfield with Ihenacho, Springs, Robinson, McGraw or Seisay could be damn good in years to come.
 
Quack U! said:
At some point Danny Mattingly will make his presence felt weekly. This kid hit's like Alonzo but is bigger than Colt. As an LB he'll strike fear in RB's and QB's. Another that loves to put a hat on someone.
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How bout we stick to reality? At no point in his college career was Colt listed 235 lbs (what Mattingly weighs) or less & was listed 250 his final season as a Duck. DM is plenty big and athletic though, hopefully someday he'll start figuring out where to be on D and make an impact. I'd trade any LB currently on board for another Michael Clay (mediocre athletically & undersized) who just flat knows how to play.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
How bout we stick to reality? At no point in his college career was Colt listed 235 lbs (what Mattingly weighs) or less & was listed 250 his final season as a Duck. DM is plenty big and athletic though, hopefully someday he'll start figuring out where to be on D and make an impact. I'd trade any LB currently on board for another Michael Clay (mediocre athletically & undersized) who just flat knows how to play.

STOMP
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I miss Michael Clay and Kiko so much.
 
Here's a D stat that should be very telling as to why our overall defensive philosophy needs to change. Once again let me state clearly is not the players it's the D we run.

Oregon allows 5.72 yards per play the most an Oregon D has given up since the 98 season and our D is ranked 85th overall nationally. Note we've only played 2 real teams out of 4 games so far.

An 85th ranked D wont win a national championship! It's time to make some adjustments.
 
Quack U! said:
Here's a D stat that should be very telling as to why our overall defensive philosophy needs to change. Once again let me state clearly is not the players it's the D we run.

Oregon allows 5.72 yards per play the most an Oregon D has given up since the 98 season and our D is ranked 85th overall nationally. Note we've only played 2 real teams out of 4 games so far.

An 85th ranked D wont win a national championship! It's time to make some adjustments.
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D ranked 85th nationally in the same Yards per play? Or overall Yardage?
 
Quack U! said:
Here's a D stat that should be very telling as to why our overall defensive philosophy needs to change. Once again let me state clearly is not the players it's the D we run.
Click to expand...

in past seasons when they were running the same system and ranking at the top of those same rankings, why did you rail against the system?

the system/schemes are proven to work, these players are not... especially the LBs. Helfrich commented in yesterday's Mosely practice recap that WSU had 200+ yards after contact... I'd imagine you blame that on the system too.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
the system/schemes are proven to work, these players are not... especially the LBs. Helfrich commented in yesterday's Mosely practice recap that WSU had 200+ yards after contact... I'd imagine you blame that on the system too.

STOMP
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I half agree with you. The scheme would work a lot better with better players. Which raises the obvious question: what now? They can't change the roster, so just maybe they had better change the game-plan.
 
Quack U! said:
87th not 85th in total defense my mistake....
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total defense is always going to be skewed against the Ducks with their system. I'd be more curious to see where the Yards Per Play ranks.
 
(not saying that the yards per play is good either)
 
oldmangrouch said:
I half agree with you. The scheme would work a lot better with better players. Which raises the obvious question: what now? They can't change the roster, so just maybe they had better change the game-plan.
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again referencing the Helfrich quote I relayed, a scheme change isn't going to have them tackling better. The coaches are doing the logical thing and focusing on that in practice rather then the desperation overhaul move you're advocating

STOMP
 
WSU throws a ton, probably more than any other team we'll see this year or ever for that matter. I think they used under 10 run plays for the game. That said.... YAC yards and being burned on short routes under 15 is what the 3-4 was designed to defend. If we give up that short pass and now everyone knows we're doing that, what do you think happens when other teams decide to attack us that way and north to south running strongly peppered in, which the 3-4 is susceptible to?

Essentially we're playing soft prevent for the first half and it's giving other teams rhythm. Great teams like Bama, Ok, FSU or Auburn wont give that tempo back to us if our D can get them off the field; and all those I've mentioned have much better running games then what we've seen to date!


I think the key here is to let our great secondary be just that, GREAT and load another man on the line to get some constant pressure on the opposing QB's. Once the D line get some decent and consistent pressure our LB's can really attack. What's the purpose of having great DB's like Olomu if we can't let them play man coverage so our D line can disrupt their QB enough to allow Ifo to take advantage with his skill from hurried up QB's not sitting comfortably in the pocket?


Once again we have talent on the line, AA, Balducci and Buckner are gamers, the play calling is having them laying up and puting the emphasis of the tackling on our average LB's and our DB's and safeties to come up. If anyone goes back and watches the D line play you'll be amazed at how many time our big 3 are playing patty cake with the O line and not even trying to get into the backfield. That's a defensive scheme failure, NOT OUR PLAYERS!!

I refuse to blame these kids for a prevent mentality which also ties directly into my assumptions on why we're not recruiting top DT's and haven't for years! It's our D scheme.

Vanderchicken was right on that point, we aren't using our DT's the right way!
 
Quack U! said:
I refuse to blame these kids for a prevent mentality which also ties directly into my assumptions on why we're not recruiting top DT's and haven't for years! It's our D scheme.
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One can refuse to believe in gravity or that the moon isn't made of cheese, but why should the rest of us care? Remember when you refused to believe that they'd come back with essentially the same defensive schemes as last year? You assured us umpteen times that Aliotti's schemes got him fired and that you knew that changes were coming. Big surprise those claims were complete drivel.

Similarly this DLine recruiting nonsense is completely off base. Remind me of the season they had 3 4* kids starting on their DLine? I'll help...they've never ever had overall higher rated recruits on their DLine then this season... hell, they've got 4* backups. Overall their defensive *s recruiting has picked up in the past 5 seasons or so to a level the program has never seen before. So go ahead and believe that these higher rated kids are being held back the same schemes that their less hyped predecessors excelled under if you like, that just proves something else entirely.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
again referencing the Helfrich quote I relayed, a scheme change isn't going to have them tackling better. The coaches are doing the logical thing and focusing on that in practice rather then the desperation overhaul move you're advocating

STOMP
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You say "desperation overhaul" - I say don't pound square pegs into round holes. :dunno:
 
oldmangrouch said:
You say "desperation overhaul" - I say don't pound square pegs into round holes. :dunno:
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First of all, we both know a major change isn't going to happen. 4 games into the year (and 4-0 & ranked #2) you're advocating changing the system. They targeted/recruited these kids for this system, they didn't spring it on them. In the offseason they coached them up on it. Pounding square pegs into round holes very quickly is exactly what you're advocating.

I'm advocating the LBs figure out how to tackle. In a system designed for the LBs to make a majority of the stops, their 2 Safeties are leading the team in tackles.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
In a system designed for the LBs to make a majority of the stops, their 2 Safeties are leading the team in tackles.

STOMP
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Well, at least we agree on what the problem is. For us, that's progress! :cheers:
 
You are NOT ever going to put pressure on a QB with a 3 man front that is told to lay up 2-4 plays a series. The LB's are being asked to do to much if the line can't penetrate those gaps or at the least hold the O line from positive gain! It's not realistic, especially with the size of O lineman today.

I don't care who your LB's are if this is the mountain you're asking them to climb weekly for poor D coordination. There is no reason our big 3 aren't being more aggressive at the line and they can be. They're good enough! It's play calling and philosophy and it's Aliotti'ing us again. Pellum needs to find his inner LB mean and fix this apathy and take the muzzles off his war dogs and allow them to hunt. Without putting pressure on the QB and often we can't beat the top five teams in the nation. FACT!

If you're happy with a 80th or worse D Stomp fine, but don't expect anyone else to buy the hogwash you're saying year after year as this is what "Oregon IS". To much money is in this program now, this is a major national brand, the D can't afford to be this mediocre anymore and big business "NIKE" wont allow it either!
 
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Quack U! said:
Nasty players just for you 1honestfan:

I have a couple of sleepers for you already on campus,

1. Eggert 6-7 310 freshman O lineman who will play next year. This kid has a mean streak in him. Guess he got amped up in practice once this year already and took out half the D line. This kid can also move for someone who could most benefit from some more flattering shirts. Once they cut his weight down, Rolls will be given holes to run behind that a Buick could fit through.

2. At some point Danny Mattingly will make his presence felt weekly. This kid hit's like Alonzo but is bigger than Colt. As an LB he'll strike fear in RB's and QB's. Another that loves to put a hat on someone.

3. Glen Ihenacho is my favorite "no one saw him coming nightmare" for nasty paint layer to be. This kid was overshadowed in high school by Adore Jackson at Serra but check out his game tapes. This kid will make you pay for testing him in the secondary. He reminds me of Lott the way he hits. Hits through you!

A backfield with Ihenacho, Springs, Robinson, McGraw or Seisay could be damn good in years to come.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with the players you mentioned but I do question the Helfrich's strategy to red-shirt these players when we clearly have a window to win the playoffs (That gets a lot harder next year). Personally, Considering we are going to be losing players to the NFL next year on both sides of the line, I would play everyone this year so we are prepared for more injuries (Knock on wood) and the players have actual game experience going into next year.
 
Stomp I'd like you to tell me the last true DT's Oregon has recruited in 4 years? Not converted TE's or DE's that gained weight but true DT's we've recruited for the position we need most to upgrade to play an effective 3-4? Balducci, Bair and way under weighted Jelks were the last I can remember.... Go ahead let it rip?

Without a Vanderdoes, McCarthy, Payne, McKenzie, Thompson, Mack type of player with 6'4 300+ size that can get under pad level and use their leverage against slower bigger O lineman you're going to have a hard damn time getting the type of penetration needed to make a 3-4 effective. This will in turn put the LB's on their toes attacking gaps created by these big uglies, vs. on their heels reacting when a jumbo O line has imposed their will.

Either go with a 4-3 and recruit the way we have been doing or you've got to have the evil ones like the one listed above on the line to warrant that 3-4 style!
 
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