MARTELL WEBSTER!!!!

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Shooter said:
I've been rougher on Webster than almost anyone, but I have to admit I'm impressed with his first two games. The kid is really coming on. He's stopped relying on his jump shot, and is trying to play a complete game. I love what I'm seeing so far.
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^^This.

I've been pretty skeptical of Martell being able to come back from a year off and look as good as he has so far. He looks energized, aggressive (at both ends) and he's not taking low percentage shots anymore ... I hope he keeps it up, cause God knows we could use some heady and efficient play at the small forward spot.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
from day one, Webster had something many guys coming into the NBA don't have (Hint: something you find between your ears).

You listen to him speak, and from day one, I felt like he got it, and he was intelligent, and I understood everything he said. Can't say that for 95% of the guys in the NBA. Or even 95% of the people I work with.
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these first couple games have been some of his best ball as a Blazer, but lets not get carried away with things. While he's always had a great frame for hoops, it's been between the ears that he has struggled, sometimes mightily. Being able to speak well, while nice for quotes/interviews, is something entirely different then having a high hoops IQ. For example, Magic Johnson.

here's hoping he can sustain the level of play we've seen so far

STOMP
 
I agree, why did we stop making him come off screens in the 2nd half? Between him and Rudy they were on fire. I can understand the 3rd quarter Roy-heat-up, but in the fourth when were were dropping the lead, we should have done some of that. If Martell was tired, put Rudy in there to do the same thing, they both were awesome last night.

I just wish Martel was bodying up more on Melo later in the game. Melo took it personal early to destroy webs.....and well succeeded by blowing us up for 40ish
 
blue32 said:
I agree, why did we stop making him come off screens in the 2nd half? Between him and Rudy they were on fire. I can understand the 3rd quarter Roy-heat-up, but in the fourth when were were dropping the lead, we should have done some of that. If Martell was tired, put Rudy in there to do the same thing, they both were awesome last night.

I just wish Martel was bodying up more on Melo later in the game. Melo took it personal early to destroy webs.....and well succeeded by blowing us up for 40ish
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He blew up Webster for 17 in 27 minutes. Melo blew up Roy, Travis, Miller for 24 in 15 minutes.
 
Ok a couple of things: It's interesting how history repeats itself. 2 seasons ago Martell did a great job defending Carmello, making his shots tough for a half, and then Nate switched Roy on to him and we lost a close game. I am not saying Roy is a bad defender, but Martell has more size and was doing a better job.

Now the other thing. I believe what happened is Martell played his tail off in the first half on both ends of the court, but I think because he has not been playing a ton, he ran out of gas so to speak. Carmello is a load to handle. I think Martell just ran out of fuel because he doesn't fully have his basketball games underneath him yet.
 
I've been really impressed with what I've seen so far in Webster. I'd long since given up all hope on the guy, and was willing to throw him in to sweeten any trade. If he can continue to improve, it's going to be really hard for Batum to get his job back.

Come on, Webster. Make me eat some delicious crow. I don't think I'm there yet, but I definitely smell something cooking in the oven.
 
STOMP said:
these first couple games have been some of his best ball as a Blazer, but lets not get carried away with things. While he's always had a great frame for hoops, it's been between the ears that he has struggled, sometimes mightily. Being able to speak well, while nice for quotes/interviews, is something entirely different then having a high hoops IQ. For example, Magic Johnson.

here's hoping he can sustain the level of play we've seen so far

STOMP
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Yes, I agree he struggled with confidence. He's a smart basketball player, too. And I think his bball IQ is ahead of the curve and was when he was drafted out of school. The only thing I ever thought he lacked was confidence. Nothing has really ever jumped out to prove otherwise.
 
BrianFromWA said:
He blew up Webster for 17 in 27 minutes. Melo blew up Roy, Travis, Miller for 24 in 15 minutes.
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Webster played vastly better defense on Melo the Roy. Roy had one good sequence and was otherwise destroyed which impacted his offensive production IMO. Webster should have been in during the 4th as a Melo' stopper or at least slower until he fouled out.

IMO the closing lineup should have been:

Rudy
Roy
Webster
LMA
Oden

I actually wonder if that wouldn't be a decent starting lineup considering how well Rudy did on Ty Lawson.

LMA hasn't gotten nearly enough criticism thus far this season. Oden has outplayed him but gotten twice the guff. Glad Roy showed up in the 2nd half, his first half was worse then LMA's. Tired of Oden being the whipping boy around here.
 
Idog1976 said:
Webster played vastly better defense on Melo the Roy. Roy had one good sequence and was otherwise destroyed which impacted his offensive production IMO. Webster should have been in during the 4th as a Melo' stopper or at least slower until he fouled out.

IMO the closing lineup should have been:

Rudy
Roy
Webster
LMA
Oden

I actually wonder if that wouldn't be a decent starting lineup considering how well Rudy did on Ty Lawson.
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I'd like to see that lineup some more. Where Rudy will run into trouble is if you get a PG like Jason Kidd who can hit threes at a decent clip. (Wow--that still seems weird to say about Kidd.)

Rudy looked so good against Ty because he went underneath every screen, every time, daring him to shoot. (That'll be the playbook on Lawson for everybody going forward. Lawson may be having a Sergio Rodriguez moment--he looks good right up until scouts tell you how to handle him. Then he disappears.)
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Yes, I agree he struggled with confidence. He's a smart basketball player, too. And I think his bball IQ is ahead of the curve and was when he was drafted out of school. The only thing I ever thought he lacked was confidence. Nothing has really ever jumped out to prove otherwise.
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well then we disagree. I don't think much of his Bball IQ and have no idea why anyone would. He's pretty straight forward/safe the way he plays offense demonstrating little innate feel for any aspect of the game. If he's open he shoots immediately. If he's covered he passes immediately. Those are the safe/low risk plays of a player who is trying to keep things simple... it's not bad play per se, but it's also not indicative of high Bball IQ. On the other end it's rare to see him a step ahead on defense anticipating passes or a weakside block opportunity.

Across all sports when I think of high IQ players, generally they are the Joe Cool types who never get too high or low. I'd like to see Martell have better focus on the W... take a 1st quarter highlight in stride rather then as an opportunity to pound his chest and yell. I know when I play, nothing gets me more focused then having the guy I'm guarding do that sort of stuff.

STOMP
 
mook said:
I'd like to see that lineup some more. Where Rudy will run into trouble is if you get a PG like Jason Kidd who can hit threes at a decent clip. (Wow--that still seems weird to say about Kidd.)

Rudy looked so good against Ty because he went underneath every screen, every time, daring him to shoot. (That'll be the playbook on Lawson for everybody going forward. Lawson may be having a Sergio Rodriguez moment--he looks good right up until scouts tell you how to handle him. Then he disappears.)
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ty lawson can shoot...maybe he doesnt have 3 point nba range yet, but he had a money jumper last year in college...
 
STOMP said:
take a 1st quarter highlight in stride rather then as an opportunity to pound his chest and yell. I know when I play, nothing gets me more focused then having the guy I'm guarding do that sort of stuff.

STOMP
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I completely disagree with this. He fired up himself, the team, and the crowd. If anything, that caused Melo to try too hard on on offense to prove himself that he got an offensive foul called on him.
 
STOMP said:
If he's open he shoots immediately. If he's covered he passes immediately.
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That's just not true.. that is a huge generalization and is the opposite of what I see from him. On one of his dunks he caught the ball at the three point line with Anderson guarding him and was pretty wide open, instead of shooting immediately like you seemingly think he does whenever he's open, he drove baseline for a dunk. That is a pretty heady play if you ask me. And these statements you made are just such broad generalizations it's kind of ridiculous.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I completely disagree with this. He fired up himself, the team, and the crowd. If anything, that caused Melo to try too hard on on offense to prove himself that he got an offensive foul called on him.
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right, Melo was just terrible after that... good point!
That's just not true.. that is a huge generalization and is the opposite of what I see from him. On one of his dunks he caught the ball at the three point line with Anderson guarding him and was pretty wide open, instead of shooting immediately like you seemingly think he does whenever he's open, he drove baseline for a dunk. That is a pretty heady play if you ask me. And these statements you made are just such broad generalizations it's kind of ridiculous.
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I'm glad you figured out that I was generalizing. Have you ever looked at Martell's shooting stats? As that link details, in the 2007-08 season 83% of his shots were jumpers. For his career, 50% of his shot attempts have been 3 pointers. Yes he occasionally does something other then shoot an uncontested deep jumper and you provided an excellent example of one, but I don't think I'm portraying the opposite of what has usually happened at all.

Maybe you being a little overly sensitive about your favorite Blazer?

STOMP
 
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Didn't think my thoughts were worth a new thread, so I'm bumping a 3-day-old one...

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to be sold on Martell at the 3. I mean, what skill set do we want from that spot? At least through the first 4 games, he's bringing everything I want.

Every alternative I hear bandied about has major drawbacks. Rudy Gay? No defense. Gerald Wallace? No outside shot. Tayshaun Prince? No future. Plus they're all $9M+/year players. Webster has energy, defense, an outside stroke, "upside", and a cheap, long-term contract.

He's four (I guess technically twelve) games into a return from a year-long injury, and he's posting a 14.4 PER so far, while expending extra energy every minute guarding the opposing team's biggest threat. I don't think it's beyond reason to think that his percentages will improve as he continues to shake off the rust from his layoff.

If he continues the aggressive mentality he's been showing and can improve his percentages (say 40% from 3, 44% overall), he will be everything that we need at the 3, and perhaps the "legit third option" many of us want.
 
I want to say how proud I am of Webster. He was that guy I wanted so much to succeed in Portland. With him having to cope with the murder of his mother, to the mental warfare he had inside his head through all those season's of mediocracy, coming out like this is a feat I doubt I could have ever handled.

I have now become a HUGE fan of Webster. He has so far giving me every reason to be one.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Didn't think my thoughts were worth a new thread, so I'm bumping a 3-day-old one...

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to be sold on Martell at the 3. I mean, what skill set do we want from that spot? At least through the first 4 games, he's bringing everything I want.

Every alternative I hear bandied about has major drawbacks. Rudy Gay? No defense. Gerald Wallace? No outside shot. Tayshaun Prince? No future. Plus they're all $9M+/year players. Webster has energy, defense, an outside stroke, "upside", and a cheap, long-term contract.

He's four (I guess technically twelve) games into a return from a year-long injury, and he's posting a 14.4 PER so far, while expending extra energy every minute guarding the opposing team's biggest threat. I don't think it's beyond reason to think that his percentages will improve as he continues to shake off the rust from his layoff.

If he continues the aggressive mentality he's been showing and can improve his percentages (say 40% from 3, 44% overall), he will be everything that we need at the 3, and perhaps the "legit third option" many of us want.
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You must spread some reputation points around...

Great pos.
 
Webster has continued to look good, especially on defense. He's making his freethrows and hitting the three while occasionally slashing to keep his defender honest.
He's done the best job of anyone on Melo'. He pretty much shut down Durant with 4 steals and excellent defense leading to one of Durant's worst lines since Carlesimo was coach.

I feel like people are coloring their critique with past seasons. Based on this one he has been great in 75% of games with one bad one in Houston. Sadly, Martell has probably been our most consistent player! :eek:
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Didn't think my thoughts were worth a new thread, so I'm bumping a 3-day-old one...

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to be sold on Martell at the 3. I mean, what skill set do we want from that spot? At least through the first 4 games, he's bringing everything I want.

Every alternative I hear bandied about has major drawbacks. Rudy Gay? No defense. Gerald Wallace? No outside shot. Tayshaun Prince? No future. Plus they're all $9M+/year players. Webster has energy, defense, an outside stroke, "upside", and a cheap, long-term contract.

He's four (I guess technically twelve) games into a return from a year-long injury, and he's posting a 14.4 PER so far, while expending extra energy every minute guarding the opposing team's biggest threat. I don't think it's beyond reason to think that his percentages will improve as he continues to shake off the rust from his layoff.

If he continues the aggressive mentality he's been showing and can improve his percentages (say 40% from 3, 44% overall), he will be everything that we need at the 3, and perhaps the "legit third option" many of us want.
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I think it's too early to be pointing to stats as proof of anything about this season. But even if I do look at them, I'm not nearly as blown away as many here seem to be.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webstma02.html

his steals and blocks rates are way up over career averages and reflect a high activity level. His assists are well up over career averages too, but 1.7 projected out to 36 minutes isn't anything to crow about. Other then that, his scoring, FG%, FTA, 3Pt%, Rebounding, and most of the advanced stats are right at his (being generous) mediocre career averages. I'm definitely not sold on his D being average let alone what I want covering the other team's #1 option.

Hopefully the blocks and steals keep coming. Hopefully the shooting percentages improve. Hopefully this is the year he doesn't struggle with his confidence and fade. To my eyes he's doing okay which is fine enough for a rotation level player, but he's hardly separating himself from mediocrity let alone inspiring me to dream of him being a legit 3rd scorer and everything I want at SF.

STOMP
 
Idog1976 said:
He pretty much shut down Durant
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I would have agreed with you... until the moment when Durant blew a wide open two handed dunk. Kevin shut Kevin down as much as Martell did.

That said, Martell's doing GREAT out there!
 
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