Notice Mass Shooting in Bend, Oregon

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Phatguysrule said:
This is factually inaccurate. Oregon drastically increased gun control over the last 5-10 years only to see violent crime and murder rates spike.

Gun control doesn't work.

We should be focusing on things that actually work.
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No country that has half a billion guns in the private sector is excercising proper gun control....you can argue all you like but guns and gun ownership are and have been out of control...they've made some small caps on types of guns but they're everywhere...gun control means actually removing millions of guns from public ownership...we aren't doing that here.
I don't nor ever will believe guns are making us safer in public. I don't think your guns or mine have helped us become a less violent country either. I'm a gun owner who grew up with gun owners. I'm not going to change your passion for your guns but I have certainly changed mine over the years. Just don't make guitars illegal and I'm good.
 
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Hey everyone. I was an employee at the time of the shooting. I’m a courtesy clerk and I was sweeping in the back near meat department when my coworker ran to warn me and shots rang out we all ran out of the produce emergency exit door. Don was the manager of produce and could have easily ran out with us and panicked, but he fearlessly stayed behind. We were scared the shooter would follow us out of the produce exit door since we didn’t know where he was. The shooter walked down towards the produce emergency exit after he had shot in between all the isles. I’ve talked with all of my coworkers and survivors. Don actually stabbed and wrestled with the shooter when he entered the back of produce near the exit door. He sacrificed and saved us all. If Don hadn’t of been there he very well could have followed us and continued his bloodshed. He always told us he would protect us with his knife if anyone came to attack the store, and he did. He would show you his knife, it was his conversation starter. He was a great humble guy who loved to make people laugh. We believe the stab wounded the gunman enough that he ended his killing spree as he couldn’t go on.
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I came across this on reddit, so take it with a grain of salt I guess.

Thank you Don, may you rest in peace.
 
Guitars don't kill people, guitar picks do.

barfo
 
riverman said:
No country that has half a billion guns in the private sector is excercising proper gun control....you can argue all you like but guns and gun ownership are and have been out of control...they've made some small caps on types of guns but they're everywhere...gun control means actually removing millions of guns from public ownership...we aren't doing that here.
I don't nor ever will believe guns are making us safer in public. I don't think your guns or mine have helped us become a less violent country either. I'm a gun owner who grew up with gun owners. I'm not going to change your passion for your guns but I have certainly changed mine over the years. Just don't make guitars illegal and I'm good.
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that is gun removal. Not gun control. I see them differently. Those who feel gun control means the removal of guns? Good luck with that. just sayin.
 
BlazerBender said:
that is gun removal. Not gun control. I see them differently. Those who feel gun control means the removal of guns? Good luck with that. just sayin.
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Don't disagree but some countries have done it and left manually chambered rifles and shotguns for hunting off the list...Europe has a lot of those situations. Removal of all semi automatic weapons and handguns would be a start.....Australia did it as well. That's gun control that also requires gun removal in part. People who are responsible and well trained can consider careers in security and law enforcement or the military but your average citizen is better off without gun ownership in my view. I've lived where you can't own a gun and it's way safer than it is in this country....I think it goes back to our fascination with the Wild West. America has been pretty brainwashed with shoot em up entertainment programming from childhood...it's the mindset that needs to change. I won't buy my grandkids toy weapons for example....we are once again derailing this thread though so I apologize for getting off track...The Grocery manager that stopped the shooter in Bend did it with a knife.
 
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riverman said:
No country that has half a billion guns in the private sector is excercising proper gun control....you can argue all you like but guns and gun ownership are and have been out of control...they've made some small caps on types of guns but they're everywhere...gun control means actually removing millions of guns from public ownership...we aren't doing that here.
I don't nor ever will believe guns are making us safer in public. I don't think your guns or mine have helped us become a less violent country either. I'm a gun owner who grew up with gun owners. I'm not going to change your passion for your guns but I have certainly changed mine over the years. Just don't make guitars illegal and I'm good.
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Nordic and Scandinavian countries have similar, and even higher, gun ownership rates as the US, but similar rates of violent crime and murder as countries with very strict gun control.

And I don't have a passion for guns. I have a passion for rights and a distaste for harmful and inefficient laws. Gun control has proven to qualify over and over.

The only places with strict gun control and lower crime rates than us also have very generous social safety nets (or are authoritarian). But they tend to have similar crime rates as other countries with lots of guns who also have similar access to education, healthcare, and robust social safety nets.

I have a different opinion of the solution, and mine is backed by data across the board. You like to try to categorize people, and I promise you, I don't fit the definition of a person with a passion for guns, any more than I would fit the definition of a person with a passion for lawn equipment. And I'm no fan of yard work.
 
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riverman said:
Don't disagree but some countries have done it and left manually chambered rifles and shotguns for hunting off the list...Europe has a lot of those situations. Removal of all semi automatic weapons and handguns would be a start.....Australia did it as well. That's gun control that also requires gun removal in part. People who are responsible and well trained can consider careers in security and law enforcement or the military but your average citizen is better off without gun ownership in my view. I've lived where you can't own a gun and it's way safer than it is in this country....I think it goes back to our fascination with the Wild West. America has been pretty brainwashed with shoot em up entertainment programming from childhood...it's the mindset that needs to change. I won't buy my grandkids toy weapons for example....we are once again derailing this thread though so I apologize for getting off track...The Grocery manager that stopped the shooter in Bend did it with a knife.
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https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compar...&city1=Zurich&country2=Thailand&city2=Bangkok

Switzerland has similar rates of gun ownership as the US.
 
riverman said:
Don't disagree but some countries have done it and left manually chambered rifles and shotguns for hunting off the list...Europe has a lot of those situations. Removal of all semi automatic weapons and handguns would be a start.....Australia did it as well. That's gun control that also requires gun removal in part. People who are responsible and well trained can consider careers in security and law enforcement or the military but your average citizen is better off without gun ownership in my view. I've lived where you can't own a gun and it's way safer than it is in this country....I think it goes back to our fascination with the Wild West. America has been pretty brainwashed with shoot em up entertainment programming from childhood...it's the mindset that needs to change. I won't buy my grandkids toy weapons for example....we are once again derailing this thread though so I apologize for getting off track...The Grocery manager that stopped the shooter in Bend did it with a knife.
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I think the difference might be the number of guns they had to start with vs what the number is in the states? Meaning its a bit easier to round up 100,000 guns compared to 100,000,000 guns?
 
Phatguysrule said:
The only places with strict gun control and lower crime rates than us also have very generous social safety nets
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This is not true....I've lived where crime rates are lower and the biggest social safety net they have that works is you can't own a gun there.....and they're not authoritarian...you defined me as someone who likes to categorize people....that's what your data is doing essentially and people can move from state to state regardless of state gun laws....bringing guns with them. You have posted more complex posts and polls and data about gun ownership than anyone on the board so I don't think that's a stretch for me to see you as a passionate gun owner...you seem to really go deep into it and know about all manners of weaponry and ammunition...that's not me liking to categorize you...that's just an observation from someone who's read hundreds of your posts on the subject but we do disagree about guns and the value they have or the threat they present. I'm not sure if you've ever lived in a country without gun ownershp or not...I promise you it's safer than here from twenty years experience in that system.
 
BlazerBender said:
I think the difference might be the number of guns they had to start with vs what the number is in the states? Meaning its a bit easier to round up 100,000 guns compared to 100,000,000 guns?
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As I mentioned...the same guns have been in my family since my father was a young man...nothing stops me from moving them to any state I move to currently...sadly I don't see guns going away in my lifetime here but I'll still plant the seeds of a gun free world and also not buy my grandkids toy weapons as a start. Deprogram the youth from guns being touted as symbols of safety
 
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riverman said:
As I mentioned...the same guns have been in my family since my father was a young man...nothing stops me from moving them to any state I move to currently...sadly I don't see guns going away in my lifetime here but I'll still plant the seeds of a gun free world and also not buy my grandkids toy weapons as a start. Deprogram the youth from guns being touted as symbols of safety
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I dont care what anyone says. I truly believe guns as toys, video games, tv have all contributed to our numbing of these things and kids growing up with these surrounding them aren't able to fully comprehend the devastating aftermath that every shooting has.
 
riverman said:
This is not true....I've lived where crime rates are lower and the biggest social safety net they have that works is you can't own a gun there.....and they're not authoritarian...you defined me as someone who likes to categorize people....that's what your data is doing essentially and people can move from state to state regardless of state gun laws....bringing guns with them. You have posted more complex posts and polls and data about gun ownership than anyone on the board so I don't think that's a stretch for me to see you as a passionate gun owner...you seem to really go deep into it and know about all manners of weaponry and ammunition...that's not me liking to categorize you...that's just an observation from someone who's read hundreds of your posts on the subject but we do disagree about guns and the value they have or the threat they present. I'm not sure if you've ever lived in a country without gun ownershp or not...I promise you it's safer than here from twenty years experience in that system.
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Yes, we have freedom. We can bring our belongings with us when we travel. I like it that way.

Thailand is not considered to be free. Even if it's not technically authoritarian it's a long way from free. I'm not interested in bringing what they've got going on to the US.
https://freedomhouse.org/country/thailand/freedom-world/2022

I know some about guns, I own a few guns, and have done a lot of research on guns due to my interest in improving things here in the US. My opposition to gun control has nothing to do with how I personally feel about guns and everything to do with how inefficient and harmful trying to round up guns on the scale you propose would be. It would be incredibly expensive and it wouldn't work.

There are alternatives that would solve the problem far more effectively, and at a fraction of the cost. And these solutions are backed by data, proven to work, and wouldn't even require a constitutional amendment like your proposal would.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Yes, we have freedom. We can bring our belongings with us when we travel. I like it that way.

Thailand is not considered to be free. Even if it's not technically authoritarian it's a long way from free. I'm not interested in bringing what they've got going on to the US.
https://freedomhouse.org/country/thailand/freedom-world/2022

I know some about guns, I own a few guns, and have done a lot of research on guns due to my interest in improving things here in the US. My opposition to gun control has nothing to do with how I personally feel about guns and everything to do with how inefficient and harmful trying to round up guns on the scale you propose would be. It would be incredibly expensive and it wouldn't work.

There are alternatives that would solve the problem for more effectively, and at a fraction of the cost. And these solutions are backed by data, proven to work, and wouldn't even require a constitutional amendment like your proposal would.
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I didn't live in Thailand although I've been there several times...Thailand is a monarchy...I lived in Taiwan which is a democracy although both countries are safer than the US to live in. Taiwan much more so. Buddhist countries are more peaceful than other countries generally speaking.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Nordic and Scandinavian countries have similar, and even higher, gun ownership rates as the US, but similar rates of violent crime and murder as countries with very strict gun control.

And I don't have a passion for guns. I have a passion for rights and a distaste for harmful and inefficient laws. Gun control has proven to qualify over and over.

The only places with strict gun control and lower crime rates than us also have very generous social safety nets (or are authoritarian). But they tend to have similar crime rates as other countries with lots of guns who also have similar access to education, healthcare, and robust social safety nets.

I have a different opinion of the solution, and mine is backed by data across the board. You like to try to categorize people, and I promise you, I don't fit the definition of a person with a passion for guns, any more than I would fit the definition of a person with a passion for lawn equipment. And I'm no fan of yard work.
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That's because the problem in the US isn't guns. The problem is a growing trend in loner men, with no friends, and unfettered access to extremist propaganda online.

These guys are isolated. They have nobody to talk to. They want to be famous. They want to be heard. They're lashing out at society.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/07/friendship-recession-15-of-men-are-without-a-close-pal/

Nearly 1 in 5 American men admit to not having a single close friend, according to the results of the American Perspectives Survey, conducted by the Survey Center on American Life.

The number of American men without a close friend has jumped five times since 1995, from 3% to 15%, according to the findings, while those claiming to have at least six close friends have plunged by half, from 55% to 27%.

When looking at both men and women, just 59% of Americans can identify one person as their “best friend,” down from 77% in 1990, the poll found.
 
Natebishop3 said:
That's because the problem in the US isn't guns. The problem is a growing trend in loner men, with no friends, and unfettered access to extremist propaganda online.

These guys are isolated. They have nobody to talk to. They want to be famous. They want to be heard. They're lashing out at society.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/07/friendship-recession-15-of-men-are-without-a-close-pal/

Nearly 1 in 5 American men admit to not having a single close friend, according to the results of the American Perspectives Survey, conducted by the Survey Center on American Life.

The number of American men without a close friend has jumped five times since 1995, from 3% to 15%, according to the findings, while those claiming to have at least six close friends have plunged by half, from 55% to 27%.

When looking at both men and women, just 59% of Americans can identify one person as their “best friend,” down from 77% in 1990, the poll found.
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This says something about our social climate though doesn't it? Maybe that should be addressed l?
 
BlazerBender said:
This says something about our social climate though doesn't it? Maybe that should be addressed l?
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It 100% needs to be addressed. I don't know how. I really don't. It probably needs to start early on in schools. We need to change the way that we build kids up in schools. Get to them early. I just think it's really weird how they all seem to kill themselves as soon as they encounter some kind of opposition. The guy in Clackamas killed himself as soon as another guy pulled out as gun. It probably has something to do with wanting to go out on their terms. If someone else kills them or captures them, they see that as a loss.
 
riverman said:
I didn't live in Thailand although I've been there several times...Thailand is a monarchy...I lived in Taiwan which is a democracy although both countries are safer than the US to live in. Taiwan much more so. Buddhist countries are more peaceful than other countries generally speaking.
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My mistake on that. Yeah, Taiwan is different altogether. They are FAR higher on the gini coefficient than we are. We're in the low 40s and they are in the upper 60s.

So we'd have to have a lot fewer rich people or a LOT of social welfare to catch up. But that's why it's so safe there.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It 100% needs to be addressed. I don't know how. I really don't. It probably needs to start early on in schools. We need to change the way that we build kids up in schools. Get to them early. I just think it's really weird how they all seem to kill themselves as soon as they encounter some kind of opposition. The guy in Clackamas killed himself as soon as another guy pulled out as gun. It probably has something to do with wanting to go out on their terms. If someone else kills them or captures them, they see that as a loss.
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schools and early childhood family help/ education.
Many many parents don't know how to be a parent.
Home ec is gone from most schools.
All i see are kids being taught how to use personal computers and pads.
There is little to no education on basic hands on skills both emotionally and physically.
No music programs, many sports funding has been limited, etc.

All of these things help bring communities together and teach kids things about social interaction they are otherwise only getting from computers.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It 100% needs to be addressed. I don't know how. I really don't. It probably needs to start early on in schools. We need to change the way that we build kids up in schools. Get to them early. I just think it's really weird how they all seem to kill themselves as soon as they encounter some kind of opposition. The guy in Clackamas killed himself as soon as another guy pulled out as gun. It probably has something to do with wanting to go out on their terms. If someone else kills them or captures them, they see that as a loss.
Click to expand...

The kid in Clackamas… I can provide some insight to that. He was a very kind child, but very disturbed with little to no parental supervision or guidance. He had love. Alot of it. But little to no discipline and was allowed to stay out at all hours of the night in his early teens.
I have no doubt this led to him getting in with the wrong people/crowd and he spiraled from there.
His name was Jake and though i do not condone anything he did at all, He was also a victim of our downward spiraling society.
 
BlazerBender said:
schools and early childhood family help/ education.
Many many parents don't know how to be a parent.
Home ec is gone from most schools.
All i see are kids being taught how to use personal computers and pads.
There is little to no education on basic hands on skills both emotionally and physically.
No music programs, many sports funding has been limited, etc.

All of these things help bring communities together and teach kids things about social interaction they are otherwise only getting from computers.
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Just don't say gay, dude.
 
ABM said:
Just don't say gay, dude.
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Actually i don't anymore. Why? Because someone here educated me on how bad it looked when i used it the way i did.

I used to use it as slang for many things.
Oh man thats gay(gay meaning stupid or boring most times))

The thing is i was just brought up saying that and never even had a thought of how it affects some people because i never had an intent to demean someone who is homosexual. It was just another word to me like rad or awesome.

but see my intent is irrelevant if it demeans others, in my opinion, and as soon as it was pointed out to me by someone here, the lightbulb went on for me and I realized I need to find another word that encompasses my slang.

Though i am a believer in sticks and stones, I also believe in giving respect to others whenever possible. This includes abiding to others’ requests when it makes no difference to me.

I apologize for the long response. Just wanted to give my perspective. :)
 
BlazerBender said:
Actually i don't anymore. Why? Because someone here educated me on how bad it looked when i used it the way i did.

I used to use it as slang for many things.
Oh man thats gay(gay meaning stupid or boring most times))

The thing is i was just brought up saying that and never even had a thought of how it affects some people because i never had an intent to demean someone who is homosexual. It was just another word to me like rad or awesome.

but see my intent is irrelevant if it demeans others, in my opinion, and as soon as it was pointed out to me by someone here, the lightbulb went on for me and I realized I need to find another word that encompasses my slang.

Though i am a believer in sticks and stones, I also believe in giving respect to others whenever possible. This includes abiding to others’ requests when it makes no difference to me.
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commendable post!
 
BlazerBender said:
Actually i don't anymore. Why? Because someone here educated me on how bad it looked when i used it the way i did.

I used to use it as slang for many things.
Oh man thats gay(gay meaning stupid or boring most times))

The thing is i was just brought up saying that and never even had a thought of how it affects some people because i never had an intent to demean someone who is homosexual. It was just another word to me like rad or awesome.

but see my intent is irrelevant if it demeans others, in my opinion, and as soon as it was pointed out to me by someone here, the lightbulb went on for me and I realized I need to find another word that encompasses my slang.

Though i am a believer in sticks and stones, I also believe in giving respect to others whenever possible. This includes abiding to others’ requests when it makes no difference to me.
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I agree. And....that Bill was misinterpreted.
 
I don’t have any friends. But I’m not going to shoot anybody either.
 
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BlazerBender said:
The kid in Clackamas… I can provide some insight to that. He was a very kind child, but very disturbed with little to no parental supervision or guidance. He had love. Alot of it. But little to no discipline and was allowed to stay out at all hours of the night in his early teens.
I have no doubt this led to him getting in with the wrong people/crowd and he spiraled from there.
His name was Jake and though i do not condone anything he did at all, He was also a victim of our downward spiraling society.
Click to expand...

Wow you knew him?
 
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