OT Mass shooting in Texas, at least 5 dead, 20 injured

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No its not. Parents have the absolute responsibility to keep their mentally defective children regulated. If it involves them being heavily drugged and unable to participate in society, well, it beats the shit out of having them commit mass shootings. Not everyone is cut out to be a functioning member of society.

Since the parents often fail, we need a regulatory board to determine who are these psychos and get them out of society before they do their crimes.

You raise a kid with mental issues and then talk. I agree parents play a large role in helping children with mental illness becoming functioning members of society. The key is to get those diagnoses as early as possible and get those kids the help they need so by the time they get to be a young adult they unserstand their illness, and how to treat and cope with it. I agree with Maris (wow) that parents aren't to blame. Many parents do everything they can for their children's mental health and things can still go wrong. Once those kids reach adulthood they begin to male their own choices in life, live on their own. The parents ha e no say anymore. Sometimes they do the hard thing and call the cops on them for help, but its up to them to accept that help.

Treating mental illness requires the proper resources, affordable and accessible health care (mamy mental illness patients don't get covered for everything and their stability falls apart). Parents aren't aware of resources.

Resources, proper health care, parents invested in their children's mental health, all equal that stability. When stability fails as it has with some of these shootings, full background checks including mental health history on all gun sales is the needed safety net to stop these mass shootings.
 
You raise a kid with mental issues and then talk. I agree parents play a large role in helping children with mental illness becoming functioning members of society. The key is to get those diagnoses as early as possible and get those kids the help they need so by the time they get to be a young adult they unserstand their illness, and how to treat and cope with it. I agree with Maris (wow) that parents aren't to blame. Many parents do everything they can for their children's mental health and things can still go wrong. Once those kids reach adulthood they begin to male their own choices in life, live on their own. The parents ha e no say anymore. Sometimes they do the hard thing and call the cops on them for help, but its up to them to accept that help.

Treating mental illness requires the proper resources, affordable and accessible health care (mamy mental illness patients don't get covered for everything and their stability falls apart). Parents aren't aware of resources.

Resources, proper health care, parents invested in their children's mental health, all equal that stability. When stability fails as it has with some of these shootings, full background checks including mental health history on all gun sales is the needed safety net to stop these mass shootings.

As you can see, even with full mental health background checks, there are always other channels to get guns. The solution is we need crazies out of society (along with 95%+ of the guns out of society as well). This guy was clearly fucking nuts, and the bar should be lowered to lock these guys up. The neighbors should have made a report (they all said he was nuts), and a law enforcement agency should investigate and then put this guy away for the good of public safety
 
As you can see, even with full mental health background checks, there are always other channels to get guns. The solution is we need crazies out of society. This guy was clearly fucking nuts, and the bar should be lowered to lock these guys up. The neighbors should have made a report (they all said he was nuts), and a law enforcement agency should investigate and then put this guy away for the good of public safety

He worked and I have not seen anything that said he was on the public tit.

So what if he was off grid and shot rabbits on his property.
 
He worked and I have not seen anything that said he was on the public tit.

So what if he was off grid and shot rabbits on his property.

Failed a mental health background check for guns. That alone should have put him on a watch list.

The warning signs were all there. The bar must be lowered to take people like this out of society until they are well.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a28901097/odessa-shooting-red-flag-laws/

Ator lived in a metal shack that lacked electricity, plumbing, a floor and even furniture. The shack was on a piece of property he apparently owned on the far west side of Ector County. For electricity, he sometimes relied on generators. On cold nights, his neighbors said, he would sleep in his car with the motor running. His home is about 20 miles from downtown Odessa, on an unmarked caliche road off Kermit Highway and amid nodding pump jacks and property covered with sage, mesquite and huisache trees. Crime-scene tape still surrounded Ator’s property Monday. This is where many oil field workers live in the booming Permian Basin oil fields. It is the graceless side of the energy economy, a cluttered zone of mobile homes, oil tanks, service trucks, salvage yards and endless commercial metal buildings.Known to his closest neighbors as “El Loco,” the crazy one, Ator kept to himself. The nickname was partly a joke and partly an expression of community unease. “He had no communication with anyone. It was the way he acted. I thought, this person is not well,” said a neighbor who declined to be identified. “While he seemed to me to have an emotional problem, I never could have imagined him doing something like this.”Ator did not exchange greetings, did not have visitors at his home and spent a lot of time shooting his black rifle from a second-floor window into the field below. Neighbors sometimes heard loud rock music... “When we first moved in seven months ago, he struck us as something new, but we got used to him,” said Salet Holguin, 24, who lives nearby. “He wasn’t friendly. My husband told me that if he ever came over here, to not open the door.”... On the one occasion she felt threatened, when he paid her an angry visit armed with his black rifle, she called the Sheriff’s Office, but authorities could not find the location and did not arrive...“He scared me when he came over with that rifle, and all the children were around,” she said. She said she and her husband have six children...“The owner told me that when he first moved in, he had a wife and kids,” she said...They also said he no longer resembled the healthy, grinning man depicted in a 2001 police mug shot, from when he was arrested in Waco on charges of criminal trespass and evading arrest. He later failed a firearms background check and was prevented from buying a gun. It was unclear how he obtained the rifle he used Saturday. “He had longer hair, he was thin and he had teardrop tattoos on his face,” said Cesar Garcia, 29, who lives nearby.
The guy was in a spiral. His neighbors knew it. The local police knew it. God knows, somewhere amid the dark stalactites of his mind, he knew it, too. And one day, the spiral ended in that place where too many of those spirals end. We really ought to do something about that some day.
 
IMO, guns should only be available to those that are overly qualified. Probably the top 1% of citizens.

Nutbags like Seth Ator? Fuck him.
 
IMO, guns should only be available to those that are overly qualified. Probably the top 1% of citizens.

Nutbags like Seth Ator? Fuck him.

No.

The type of person dictates the type of gun.

Ator and Maris clearly qualify for Nerf guns.
 
As you can see, even with full mental health background checks, there are always other channels to get guns. The solution is we need crazies out of society (along with 95%+ of the guns out of society as well). This guy was clearly fucking nuts, and the bar should be lowered to lock these guys up. The neighbors should have made a report (they all said he was nuts), and a law enforcement agency should investigate and then put this guy away for the good of public safety

But there isn't background checks on all guns purchases. There needs to be. That may not completely stop these shootings, but will help cut them down dramatically.
 
No.

The type of person dictates the type of gun.

Ator and Maris clearly qualify for Nerf guns.

Getting a gun should be very very difficult and highly regulated.

There should be deep psychological tests done.
 
This is what needs to be done
  • Full background checks on all gun sales
  • No out of state gun sales (buyer must prove he\she is a resident of the state they are buying the gun in)
  • Mental health history/screening for every background check - gun buy
  • Red Flag laws
  • Parents need to keep their guns safely locked away (many school shootings happen after kids have gained access to their parent's guns)
  • Ban the sale of military assault rifles in all states
  • Ban sale of Bump stocks, silencers, clips over a certain amount of bullets, and other gun components that have no reasonable application for civillians and allow aid mass shooters in all states.
  • Limit the sale of bullets?
We need a comprehensive gun control bill to go through create tougher laws and regulations to stop these bastards or it will keep happening. Congress will try but the Republican president and senate who are bought off by the NRA will not have it. Furthermore, on the state level red states won't have it. I guess those states like Texas, would rather have these shootings continue.
 
You raise a kid with mental issues and then talk. I agree parents play a large role in helping children with mental illness becoming functioning members of society. The key is to get those diagnoses as early as possible and get those kids the help they need so by the time they get to be a young adult they unserstand their illness, and how to treat and cope with it. I agree with Maris (wow) that parents aren't to blame. Many parents do everything they can for their children's mental health and things can still go wrong. Once those kids reach adulthood they begin to male their own choices in life, live on their own. The parents ha e no say anymore. Sometimes they do the hard thing and call the cops on them for help, but its up to them to accept that help.

Treating mental illness requires the proper resources, affordable and accessible health care (mamy mental illness patients don't get covered for everything and their stability falls apart). Parents aren't aware of resources.

Resources, proper health care, parents invested in their children's mental health, all equal that stability. When stability fails as it has with some of these shootings, full background checks including mental health history on all gun sales is the needed safety net to stop these mass shootings.
It's a mixed bag. Some parents are to blame.
 
This is what needs to be done
  • Full background checks on all gun sales
  • No out of state gun sales (buyer must prove he\she is a resident of the state they are buying the gun in)
  • Mental health history/screening for every background check - gun buy
  • Red Flag laws
  • Parents need to keep their guns safely locked away (many school shootings happen after kids have gained access to their parent's guns)
  • Ban the sale of military assault rifles in all states
  • Ban sale of Bump stocks, silencers, clips over a certain amount of bullets, and other gun components that have no reasonable application for civillians and allow aid mass shooters in all states.
  • Limit the sale of bullets?
We need a comprehensive gun control bill to go through create tougher laws and regulations to stop these bastards or it will keep happening. Congress will try but the Republican president and senate who are bought off by the NRA will not have it. Furthermore, on the state level red states won't have it. I guess those states like Texas, would rather have these shootings continue.

This does nothing for illegal weapons or those who shouldn't have weapons.

Mandatory minimums plus military raids in areas with high gun violence.
 
Psychological/psychiatric tests for all children starting in 6th grade, annually, to evaluate or red flag people who show extreme emotional instability (everyone has some look at this place). For those who check the boxes, a plan in place to treat, monitor the individual. Why do kids get annual physical exams but not psychological exams?

Hold gun owners accountable for gun deaths
AR style weapons illegal
Random gun checks by law enforcement to make sure guns are locked away
Illegal to buy gun out of state
Illegal to privately sell guns
There’s probably a ton more that can be done. But let’s start.
 
The gunman bought the gun from a private party.

He couldn't legally buy the gun from a gun store but in Texas, no matter what kind of criminal convictions you have, you can buy guns from private parties.

Cool!

Just as true:

He couldn't legally buy the gun from a gun store but anywhere on Earth, no matter what kind of criminal convictions you have, no matter how many laws prohibit it, you can buy guns illegally from private parties.
 
Not a single one of these would reduce violence and would in fact increase it drastically and get a lot of LEOS. Gun ownership would increase dramatically as it always does when the confiscation Nazis come around
.
You're part of a small, gullible, terrified-of-your-own-shadow, anti-freedom minority, and these "proposals" are ridiculous on their face and evil in their intentions. Move to China and put on your yoke, because this shit will never fly in The Land of The Free, The Home of The Brave.

No Real American shares your views on slavery and government oppression.
You can disagree with him, but calling him, gullible, anti-freedom, and terrified of his own shadow is against the rules.

Im not totally sure if I agree with the methods he listed, but Id never attack him for it, or insult him. You’re trying to use the loophole of “generalizing”, but you didn't do it very well IMO.

This is a pretty clear Ad-hominem attack on his character or your perception of it, rather than disputing his claims.
 
Not a single one of these would reduce violence and would in fact increase it drastically and get a lot of LEOS. Gun ownership would increase dramatically as it always does when the confiscation Nazis come around
.
You're part of a small, gullible, terrified-of-your-own-shadow, anti-freedom minority, and these "proposals" are ridiculous on their face and evil in their intentions. Move to China and put on your yoke, because this shit will never fly in The Land of The Free, The Home of The Brave.

No Real American shares your views on slavery and government oppression.

Everything I listed would be a step in the right direction. None would increase gun violence.
 
Everything I listed would be a step in the right direction. None would increase gun violence.
I honestly dont know if the things you listed would help or not. I have concerns/questions on a few of them, and some of them might be good ideas in general even if they may not affect gun violence. Im for doing something to make kids not scared of going to school, or to a Garlic Festival, or the movies, or heck outside in general though.
 
I honestly dont know if the things you listed would help or not. I have concerns/questions on a few of them, and some of them might be good ideas in general even if they may not affect gun violence. Im for doing something to make kids not scared of going to school, or to a Garlic Festival, or the movies, or heck outside in general though.

How are these things not going to be helpful?:

Hold gun owners accountable for gun deaths
AR style weapons illegal
Random gun checks by law enforcement to make sure guns are locked away
Illegal to buy gun out of state
Illegal to privately sell guns

I mean what am i missing. Does it fix everything? Nope. But not sure how it doesn’t help?
 
How are these things not going to be helpful?:

Hold gun owners accountable for gun deaths
AR style weapons illegal
Random gun checks by law enforcement to make sure guns are locked away
Illegal to buy gun out of state
Illegal to privately sell guns

I mean what am i missing. Does it fix everything? Nope. But not sure how it doesn’t help?
Well what do you mean hold gun owners accountable for gun deaths? Seems like punishing all gun owners because of another's action is a slippery slope.
Random Gun checks? Alcohol kills a lot of people, are we going to start randomly checking everyone’s house with police just stopping by to make sure the alcohol is in the liquor cabinet? Can you imagine how bad that could or would be for minorities. Now cops can literally go in there homes whenever they please and call it a Gun check? This seems like it could go seriously wrong...

When talking about the popular vote thing this got brought up, discrimination based on location. Were saying nationally were all equal to feds and should have the same rights now matter where were from but were also saying where your from we can discriminate by not allowing you to purchase something. Its not a great argument I’ll admit. I kind of think the opposite, no private gun sales and take it out of the states hands completely. Make federal gun laws that are mandatory across all states. Databases are kept nationally, and buying a gun requires a federal background check, where your at doesn't matter, where your from doesn't matter. The federal government should know who has guns, and what kind and it shouldn't rely or let some states have weak guns laws.


Some of this is playing DA for sure, but I also think some of the suggestions do in fact create concerns.
 
Well what do you mean hold gun owners accountable for gun deaths? Seems like punishing all gun owners because of another's action is a slippery slope.
Random Gun checks? Alcohol kills a lot of people, are we going to start randomly checking everyone’s house with police just stopping by to make sure the alcohol is in the liquor cabinet? Can you imagine how bad that could or would be for minorities. Now cops can literally go in there homes whenever they please and call it a Gun check? This seems like it could go seriously wrong...

When talking about the popular vote thing this got brought up, discrimination based on location. Were saying nationally were all equal to feds and should have the same rights now matter where were from but were also saying where your from we can discriminate by not allowing you to purchase something. Its not a great argument I’ll admit. I kind of think the opposite, no private gun sales and take it out of the states hands completely. Make federal gun laws that are mandatory across all states. Databases are kept nationally, and buying a gun requires a federal background check, where your at doesn't matter, where your from doesn't matter. The federal government should know who has guns, and what kind and it shouldn't rely or let some states have weak guns laws.


Some of this is playing DA for sure, but I also think some of the suggestions do in fact create concerns.

If your gun gets out of your hands and kills someone - you are held responsible. Not the the actual crime (murder or robbery) but there is a lack of control over your weapon and you need to know where it is at all times and lock it up.

Random gun checks. Yep. Get over it gun owners.
 
If your gun gets out of your hands and kills someone - you are held responsible. Not the the actual crime (murder or robbery) but there is a lack of control over your weapon and you need to know where it is at all times and lock it up.

Random gun checks. Yep. Get over it gun owners.
I just dont agree I guess. On either account. I down own a gun. I took my parents car out at times without telling them where I was going, had I hurt someone with it, it wasnt there fault.
A lack of control, is just reality, not a single person anywhere has complete control of all the variables around them, and to punish people for simply not being omniscient doesnt make sense to me.

Get over it isnt an argument, if I said no gun checks, non-gun owners get over it. Thats what exactly? Just saying Im right and will not hear anything else?

Im for reasonable gun control laws, I am not for treating gun owners like the are second class citizens solely because they own a gun, which seems to be what you’re advocating for.

You own a gun and now the government has a permanent warrant to enter your house whenever they feel like? Nah...
 
Well what do you mean hold gun owners accountable for gun deaths? Seems like punishing all gun owners because of another's action is a slippery slope.
Random Gun checks? Alcohol kills a lot of people, are we going to start randomly checking everyone’s house with police just stopping by to make sure the alcohol is in the liquor cabinet? Can you imagine how bad that could or would be for minorities. Now cops can literally go in there homes whenever they please and call it a Gun check? This seems like it could go seriously wrong...

No thanks to a police state.
 
I just dont agree I guess. On either account. I down own a gun. I took my parents car out at times without telling them where I was going, had I hurt someone with it, it wasnt there fault.
A lack of control, is just reality, not a single person anywhere has complete control of all the variables around them, and to punish people for simply not being omniscient doesnt make sense to me.

Get over it isnt an argument, if I said no gun checks, non-gun owners get over it. Thats what exactly? Just saying Im right and will not hear anything else?

Im for reasonable gun control laws, I am not for treating gun owners like the are second class citizens solely because they own a gun, which seems to be what you’re advocating for.

You own a gun and now the government has a permanent warrant to enter your house whenever they feel like? Nah...

Modifying the second amendment and/or removal and destroying firearms will be the beginning of the process.
 
I agree with gun holders being held responsible if their guns are used in shootings. If a kid gets hold of their parents guns and uses them to shoot people, the parent is responsible. Same with any other gun owner who's gun is used. If you own a gun it comes with responsibility. When you don't meet that responsibility you should be held accountable.

Not sure about random gun checks. But, holding gun owners accountable, universal background checks on all gun sales (even private sales), no out of state gun sales (buyer must prove they are residents of the state they are buying the gun in), red flag laws, mental health checks on all background checks for gun sales, taking military assault rifles off the open market, and an optional buyback all should be done.

If these are all done it will cut down the number of mass shootings. The truth is they will probably never be stopped completely, but we can make it harder for these people to access guns and carry out these shootings. Many of these shootings would have been preventable had these above things been in place.
 
I agree with gun holders being held responsible if their guns are used in shootings. If a kid gets hold of their parents guns and uses them to shoot people, the parent is responsible. Same with any other gun owner who's gun is used. If you own a gun it comes with responsibility. When you don't meet that responsibility you should be held accountable.

Not sure about random gun checks. But, holding gun owners accountable, universal background checks on all gun sales (even private sales), no out of state gun sales (buyer must prove they are residents of the state they are buying the gun in), red flag laws, mental health checks on all background checks for gun sales, taking military assault rifles off the open market, and an optional buyback all should be done.

If these are all done it will cut down the number of mass shootings. The truth is they will probably never be stopped completely, but we can make it harder for these people to access guns and carry out these shootings. Many of these shootings would have been preventable had these above things been in place.
I think there are reasonable discussions to be had and it makes sense to enact laws (federally). My problem is mostly that the NRA and certain groups have this, "2nd amendment rah, rah, thing" and other groups tend to want to drop the hammer so hard that it swings it entirely to a point it creates many other issues. I think there is a middle ground that can be met that would make it harder for people to get guns who wouldn't use them responsibly.

The problem is, it's a compromise and both sides would leave with things they're happy about it and things that they aren't. I realize there are some things we shouldn't compromise on but in my opinion, this is an issue that should be.
 
I think there are reasonable discussions to be had and it makes sense to enact laws (federally). My problem is mostly that the NRA and certain groups have this, "2nd amendment rah, rah, thing" and other groups tend to want to drop the hammer so hard that it swings it entirely to a point it creates many other issues. I think there is a middle ground that can be met that would make it harder for people to get guns who wouldn't use them responsibly.

The problem is, it's a compromise and both sides would leave with things they're happy about it and things that they aren't. I realize there are some things we shouldn't compromise on but in my opinion, this is an issue that should be.

There are discussions to be had. Unfortunately, they won't be had. The Democratic congress will put through laws like the ones I mentioned and the conservative Senate will shit on it, and continue to be inactive on the issue.

Trump was talking about tougher back ground checks and redflag laws before the NRA pulled his puppet strings and made him stop all talk of any purposeful action. The NRA is just a conglomerate of gun manufacturers who want to keep their products as unregulated as possible to sell as many as they can and profit s much as they can. Just like big tobbacco. They buy out politicians, make them rich in exchange for not having the conversation, for not making sensible laws.

It is a compromise. But, conservatives aren't willing to compromise on it. The things I listed above are a good start. I didn't even include mandatory gun checks or a mandatory buyback. I don't hear yeah we need to make some sensible laws and regulations. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't hear let's have the conversation. I hear immediate pull back. I hear. Fuck you liberals. Fuck new laws and regulations, because it is just a facade to take guns away from law abiding gun owners. That is what I hear. And that is not what it is. Let's have the conversation. Let's fix this.
 

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