Mavs' Comments on Blazers' 4th Quarter Offense

[PapaG]

ISO-ball never works in the playoffs.

The Mavericks had no answer for Roy, who shot 8 for 10 from the field in the quarter.

"What they did to us in the fourth quarter was (isolation) left, iso right, iso middle, iso whichever way you want to call it with Brandon Roy," Mavericks guard Jason Terry said. "We definitely gotta make an adjustment in that area."

Center Tyson Chandler added: "We didn't make any adjustments, period. ... It was obvious. He got where he wanted to, made buckets."

If that sounds like a criticism of Carlisle, the coach suggested that he deserves it. Carlisle has said throughout the series that he is game-planning for Roy as if Roy is still an All-Star-caliber player. But on Saturday, Dallas did not double-team Roy or go a zone defense - something it frequently uses - to counter the Blazers guard's fourth quarter outburst.

"I'm going to take the blame for a lot of that," Carlisle said. "There are different things defensively that we could have done. We should have done some different things."

http://www.oregonlive.com/nba/index.ssf/2011/04/mavericks_dont_adjust_to_brean.html

 

[Draco]

We caught them off guard for game 4, they will gameplan for it now and try to make adjustments.

I've never been against using some ISO ball, it's just in the previous two years that was 80% of our offense. If we just have it be 30% of our offense like yesterday it could be a very good change of pace strategy.

 

[B-Roy]

It obviously works, otherwise it wouldn't be so popular....

How well it actually works though, eh.....Cleveland lived off LeBron isos, and look where it got them.

 

[PapaG]

Cleveland lived off LeBron isos, and look where it got them.

Perennially to the playoffs, plus the NBA Finals once, with a roster that can't win 20 games without him?

 

[B-Roy]

Perennially to the playoffs, plus the NBA Finals once, with a roster that can't win 20 games without him?

Arguably the greatest player of his era, and unable to win a title with an offense centered on isolating him.

 

[Minstrel]

Arguably the greatest player of his era, and unable to win a title with an offense centered on isolating him.

Yeah, but they probably maximized the results based on the talent on the roster. One player can't win a championship by himself, but Cleveland came close (a lot closer than Jordan ever did alone) by feeding James constantly.

 

[maxiep]

It's the beauty of having to worry about a dominant Aldridge and an active Wallace. It used to be if you stopped Brandon, you stopped the Blazers. Without Roy, we learned to spread the production out. When he came back to briefly be the Brandon of old, the Mavs couldn't cover us. If they focused on stopping Roy, we would have killed them with Aldridge or Wallace.

 

[ppilot]

It's the beauty of having to worry about a dominant Aldridge and an active Wallace. It used to be if you stopped Brandon, you stopped the Blazers. Without Roy, we learned to spread the production out. When he came back to briefly be the Brandon of old, the Mavs couldn't cover us. If they focused on stopping Roy, we would have killed them with Aldridge or Wallace.

Yeah I pretty much said the same exact thing on Blazersedge. Dallas will adjust which should make life much easier for our other two horses. Wallace in particular hasn't had a great offensive game I think he is due.

 

[PapaG]

It's the beauty of having to worry about a dominant Aldridge and an active Wallace. It used to be if you stopped Brandon, you stopped the Blazers. Without Roy, we learned to spread the production out. When he came back to briefly be the Brandon of old, the Mavs couldn't cover us. If they focused on stopping Roy, we would have killed them with Aldridge or Wallace.

Lost in Roy's once-in-a-lifetime 4th quarter was that LMA twice hit big shots in the last 7 minutes off of a Roy ISO pass, and Wesley had a big lay-up off of another Roy ISO pass. Carlisle blew it by not doubling or trapping Roy, but if LMA and others are hitting shots, the doubling doesn't work.

 

[maxiep]

Lost in Roy's once-in-a-lifetime 4th quarter was that LMA twice hit big shots in the last 7 minutes off of a Roy ISO pass, and Wesley had a big lay-up off of another Roy ISO pass. Carlisle blew it by not doubling or trapping Roy, but if LMA and others are hitting shots, the doubling doesn't work.

Yep. Roy is an underrated passer and with Aldridge's newfound offensive confidence this season, you can't double both.

 

[magnifier661]

We caught them off guard for game 4, they will gameplan for it now and try to make adjustments.

I've never been against using some ISO ball, it's just in the previous two years that was 80% of our offense. If we just have it be 30% of our offense like yesterday it could be a very good change of pace strategy.

It's a great 4th quarter strategy. Usually the defenders are slower cause of fatigue. Having Roy off the bench will save him for the 4th. Then he can take over a game once again.

 

[Masbee]

Lost in Roy's once-in-a-lifetime 4th quarter was that LMA twice hit big shots in the last 7 minutes off of a Roy ISO pass, and Wesley had a big lay-up off of another Roy ISO pass. Carlisle blew it by not doubling or trapping Roy, but if LMA and others are hitting shots, the doubling doesn't work.

Exactly. Earlier in the 4th, other Blazers were missing shots. But later in the 4th, once Roy had built up his momentum and was in a zone, if Dallas would have tried to change their defense, the other guys on the floor would have had wide open looks and lanes straight to the rim. Dallas was in trouble either way.

 

[B-Roy]

Yeah, but they probably maximized the results based on the talent on the roster. One player can't win a championship by himself, but Cleveland came close (a lot closer than Jordan ever did alone) by feeding James constantly.

The point is, even with the best player, and a specific roster catered to the isolation offense, they were still unable to win a title.

The title teams of the last decade (Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, Detroit) all relied less on isolation offenses, and more on team basketball. That's not to say isolation doesn't work at all, but it seems there are more effective ways of running an offense, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Minstrel]

The point is, even with the best player, and a specific roster catered to the isolation offense, they were still unable to win a title.

The title teams of the last decade (Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, Detroit) all relied less on isolation offenses, and more on team basketball. That's not to say isolation doesn't work at all, but it seems there are more effective ways of running an offense, especially in the playoffs.

It depends on your personnel. If your point is that it's better to have a lot more overall talent and thus have to rely less on isolation, that's undoubtedly true. When you have just one guy capable of taking over, isolation-heavy offense is the best way to leverage that. It's the best way to A. get that guy a lot of chances to win one-on-one battles for easy scores and B. allow that guy to create open looks for his teammates who can't do it for themselves.

Becoming much more talented with a more diverse offense is better, but it's harder to achieve. Hopefully the Blazers can.

 

[magnifier661]

The point is, even with the best player, and a specific roster catered to the isolation offense, they were still unable to win a title.

The title teams of the last decade (Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, Detroit) all relied less on isolation offenses, and more on team basketball. That's not to say isolation doesn't work at all, but it seems there are more effective ways of running an offense, especially in the playoffs.

4th Quarters.... Kobe used a lot of ISO's in the finals in the 4th. I seem to remember a lot of Wade ISO's during their title.

 

[B-Roy]

It depends on your personnel. If your point is that it's better to have a lot more overall talent and thus have to rely less on isolation, that's undoubtedly true. When you have just one guy capable of taking over, isolation-heavy offense is the best way to leverage that. It's the best way to A. get that guy a lot of chances to win one-on-one battles for easy scores and B. allow that guy to create open looks for his teammates who can't do it for themselves.

I don't disagree, but with Cleveland as an example, they obviously went out and got players that would specifically fit into the isolation offense. It wasn't just maximizing talent, but maximizing LeBron's ability with the basketball.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't disagree, but with Cleveland as an example, they obviously went out and got players that would specifically fit into the isolation offense. It wasn't just maximizing talent, but maximizing LeBron's ability with the basketball.

I think they tried to do both, really. They never were successful in acquiring a second star (they supposedly tried to get Amare Stoudemire, but were unable) so they tried to get the most talented complementary players they could. When you're acquiring complementary players to your superstar, you may as well get guys who fit into an isolation offense, because that's what you'll be running with one superstar.

I don't think they decided that isolation-complementary role-players were superior to more stars. I think they simply struck out in trying to get more stars, so they made the best of it.

 

[Ed O]

I think any time that a player shoots that well, it's going to make the offense look good. I don't think that it means that the offense is the best one for the team.

Ed O.

 

[handiman]

ISO ball clearly works, but only if your main guy is hitting his shots at a high rate. That's the flaw to the system... It breaks down quickly if the one guy is having a cold shooting night. I like the current group's ability to play team ball or ISO ball and adjust as needed.

 

[STOMP]

ISO ball clearly works, but only if your main guy is hitting his shots at a high rate. That's the flaw to the system... It breaks down quickly if the one guy is having a cold shooting night. I like the current group's ability to play team ball or ISO ball and adjust as needed.

yup. It's always good to have options. I don't like Iso ball as the primary focus of a team's attack as it leads to complacency in the rest of the guys, but it's great to have a player or two who can create for themselves off the dribble.

STOMP

 

[fumanchu]

ISO can work if:

1) It's done in small doses so that the other players aren't taken out of the game by their lack of involvement.

2) If and when the double comes, the other players are making the right plays and hitting their shots.

3) The star player actually being clutch.

As someone above mentioned, it has worked for the Heat and Lakers because they had all these factors work out. In the case of Lebron and Cleveland, see 3.

 

[Denny Crane]

ISO works if you have 2 or more players who can do it so you can mix things up, or have a mismatch that one of the players can routinely take advantage of.

I think Dallas simply didn't game plan for Roy being a factor, which would be the "mismatch that one of the players can routinely take advantage of" category.

 

[Minstrel]

In the case of Lebron and Cleveland, see lack of talent around him as proven by Cleveland's record this season. As we all know, no single player can win a title, no matter how brilliant he is.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Natebishop3]

Iso is a nice weapon to have, but it's not something that should be the majority of your plays. The problem was that, with Roy down, we didn't have someone who was capable of running an iso. Miller is okay in spots, but once a defense keys on him it's dicey. If Roy can still run an iso effectively for 30% of the game (I like that number a lot actually) then that gives the Blazers a nice weapon to go to, especially when they desperately need a basket.

The problem in the past was that we relied so heavily on Roy to carry us, and we ran so many isos, that teams prepared for it and knew when and how to stop it. That's not the case now.

 

[KingSpeed]

The 2006 Miami Heat won the title playing ISO ball with Wade all game long for those 4 wins. So yes, it can be done. And what LeBron did was amazing. He took the worst team in the NBA to the NBA Finals in only 4 years after being drafted out of high school. Just because he didn't win the title, you still have to be amazed at that. Oh, and we did it last night for one of the biggest comebacks in NBA playoff history.

 

[Tince]

There is no one play/offense that is going to work in 100% of the games. Having said that, ISO and Pick & Roll are the two most difficult styles to defend and easiest to implement.

If the shot clock were 45 seconds, I think you'd see teams run different types of motions, but its difficult to run a motion in the NBA.

Ultimately, it comes down to having a team where you either have the best player on the court, better shooters, or a deeper team. Considering Dallas has us in all those categories, it's pretty amazing we compete as well as we do.

 

[Natebishop3]

The 2006 Miami Heat won the title playing ISO ball with Wade all game long for those 4 wins. So yes, it can be done. And what LeBron did was amazing. He took the worst team in the NBA to the NBA Finals in only 4 years after being drafted out of high school. Just because he didn't win the title, you still have to be amazed at that. Oh, and we did it last night for one of the biggest comebacks in NBA playoff history.

Yeah, but they also had a still somewhat healthy Shaq on that team. Shaq at that time had waaaay more respect from the refs than anyone on our team.