Maybe the Blazers should never put their money on Great Centers

[magnifier661]

Think about it. It's a fucking curse man!

1.) Walton - injuries

2.) Bowie - injuries

3.) Sabas - didn't come over, then came with nagging injuries.

4.) Oden - injuries

Maybe we should just look somewhere else or at some other position. Seems our luck with "Great Centers" hasn't been that great.

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Forever forward, we list all players that are tall like centers - as Power Forwards. We've had little injury problems with our PF's Wicks, Lucas, Mychal Thompson, Buck, Shweed, LA spanning 40 years.

 

[Draco]

Look at Yao and Bynum. Ralph Sampson. Centers just get injured more often than any other position, but that is what makes a dominant center so very valuable in basketball. It's rare to have a talented 7 footer and hard to keep them healthy.

 

[magnifier661]

Look at Yao and Bynum. Ralph Sampson. Centers just get injured more often than any other position, but that is what makes a dominant center so very valuable in basketball. It's rare to have a talented 7 footer and hard to keep them healthy.

Still over 30 years and every "Franchise Center" we were able to obtain all had terrible injuries that hampered our chances.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

we should just start lma at center and greg at pf...problem solved!

 

[Draco]

Still over 30 years and every "Franchise Center" we were able to obtain all had terrible injuries that hampered our chances.

Well Bowie was a horrible draft pick regardless of health. The team selected a far inferior player because of fit. Sure he had injury problem but even if healthy he wasn't going to be a franchise center. Same as picking Darko over Melo, Wade, and Bosh.

Sabonis played in a country with poor medical care, he may have been physically comparable to Ewing if he had been in the states from day 1. As much as people try to rip the Blazers medical staff they spare no expense and consult world renowned specialists. We were able to acquire Sabonis late in the draft because he was an uncertain international prospect, then because of being an uncertain international prospect he came here late and damaged.

Greg has had a horrid first 4 years but maybe he ends up being like Ric Smits or Illgauskas or Grant Hill, having major injury problems for years then being healthy for many years. We know the book is closed on the first 3 centers you mentioned but Greg has most of his career ahead of him.

I still think Houston has as much tragedy as us; Sampson took that team to the finals then became a shell of himself from injuries. Yao was the best center in the game but couldn’t stay healthy very long.

I agree Walton is a sad case of losing a franchise center due to injuries. At least we got a championship out of it! Has any guard or forward lead our team to a title? Look at Dwight Howard in Orlando, if you can get one of these centers to stick they have such an enormous impact on the game its worth the higher injury risks of a human body that is 7 freakish feet tall.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Some use the argument that Greg is young enough to overcome these injuries but I think it's just the opposite. His body started to breakdown at the ripe age of 20.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Think about it. It's a fucking curse man!

1.) Walton - injuries

2.) Bowie - injuries

3.) Sabas - didn't come over, then came with nagging injuries.

4.) Oden - injuries

Maybe we should just look somewhere else or at some other position. Seems our luck with "Great Centers" hasn't been that great.

Easy fix! Just call every player over 7ft we draft a small forward. We seem to have pretty good luck with those.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Some use the argument that Greg is young enough to overcome these injuries but I think it's just the opposite. His body started to breakdown at the ripe age of 20.

QFT.

This is the part of the Oden saga that often gets ignored.

 

[Draco]

Some use the argument that Greg is young enough to overcome these injuries but I think it's just the opposite. His body started to breakdown at the ripe age of 20.

So you expect Blake Griffin to have a limited NBA career?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

So you expect Blake Griffin to have a limited NBA career?

You can't compare the two.

Blake Griffin had a small hairline fracture in his kneecap.

Greg's knee cap fractured into many pieces.

Oh, don't forget the two microfracture surgeries.

 

[magnifier661]

Well Bowie was a horrible draft pick regardless of health. The team selected a far inferior player because of fit. Sure he had injury problem but even if healthy he wasn't going to be a franchise center. Same as picking Darko over Melo, Wade, and Bosh.

Sabonis played in a country with poor medical care, he may have been physically comparable to Ewing if he had been in the states from day 1. As much as people try to rip the Blazers medical staff they spare no expense and consult world renowned specialists. We were able to acquire Sabonis late in the draft because he was an uncertain international prospect, then because of being an uncertain international prospect he came here late and damaged.

Greg has had a horrid first 4 years but maybe he ends up being like Ric Smits or Illgauskas or Grant Hill, having major injury problems for years then being healthy for many years. We know the book is closed on the first 3 centers you mentioned but Greg has most of his career ahead of him.

I still think Houston has as much tragedy as us; Sampson took that team to the finals then became a shell of himself from injuries. Yao was the best center in the game but couldn’t stay healthy very long.

I agree Walton is a sad case of losing a franchise center due to injuries. At least we got a championship out of it! Has any guard or forward lead our team to a title? Look at Dwight Howard in Orlando, if you can get one of these centers to stick they have such an enormous impact on the game its worth the higher injury risks of a human body that is 7 freakish feet tall.

Draco, dude I want Oden. I still have hope, but our luck with franchise centers have been terrible. That is all I'm saying.

 

[julius]

Some use the argument that Greg is young enough to overcome these injuries but I think it's just the opposite. His body started to breakdown at the ripe age of 20.

Bill Walton has often said that his body started to betray him when he was 13.

 

[Draco]

Draco, dude I want Oden. I still have hope, but our luck with franchise centers have been terrible. That is all I'm saying.

Well when you use the term "franchise center" with Bowie it seems odd to me because he was not that level of pre-draft talent, nothing in the realm of Oden or Walton. He was a huge reach at #2 like Hasheem Thabeet being picked over superior players.

But with Walton and so far with Oden we have had terrible luck with their health yeah I agree with you on that. We all hope for the best with Oden but realistically like Yao and Bynum he just has a very likely chance of injuries and I only hope to get some great healthy seasons out of him. I'm expecting him to miss significant games in the future but if he is healthy and dominant I'll cherish any years we do get something from him. All I can really do is hope for the best.

If Oden has one healthy season out of the next 5 but we win a title that year then was all of this bad luck with centers really that bad? It would be a roller coaster ride of ups and downs but we would have got our only two championships from it.

 

[magnifier661]

Well when you use the term "franchise center" with Bowie it seems odd to me because he was not that level of pre-draft talent, nothing in the realm of Oden or Walton. He was a huge reach at #2 like Hasheem Thabeet being picked over superior players.

But with Walton and so far with Oden we have had terrible luck with their health yeah I agree with you on that. We all hope for the best with Oden but realistically like Yao and Bynum he just has a very likely chance of injuries and I only hope to get some great healthy seasons out of him. I'm expecting him to miss significant games in the future but if he is healthy and dominant I'll cherish any years we do get something from him. All I can really do is hope for the best.

If Oden has one healthy season out of the next 5 but we win a title that year then was all of this bad luck with centers really that bad? It would be a roller coaster ride of ups and downs but we would have got our only two championships from it.

I believe that a true center immediately gives you the best chance to win a title. I truly believe that. That was why I was so for Oden over Durant. I always thought Durant would win the scoring titles while Oden would have parades in June.

 

[julius]

Not sure I'd say that Bowie was a 'reach' like Thabeet. Thabeet is bad.

That said, Bowie had missed 2 years, so the writing should've been on the walls. Greg did have a wrist injury, and a magical MRI on the knee that seems to change results, to best suit whatever side of the argument people are on.

 

[Rhal]

Were not the only team with bad luck at the center Position. 7 footers always have health problems and even a lot of the greats had real problems with injures, Hakeem only gave a couple of great injury free years. It is always a problem with 7 footers but people keep taking them and we and others will do it because when you get a good one he changes the game. A great dominate center on both sides of the court makes so much difference, takes you from a great team to a championship caliber team. Its why the Lakers gave Bynum another shot instead of trading him for someone like Bosh.

 

[Rhal]

Not sure I'd say that Bowie was a 'reach' like Thabeet. Thabeet is bad.

That said, Bowie had missed 2 years, so the writing should've been on the walls. Greg did have a wrist injury, and a magical MRI on the knee that seems to change results, to best suit whatever side of the argument people are on.

Problem with quoting things about Greg that "should" have red lighted him is that no GM cared about that, everyone would have taken Greg except for maybe Orlando. We have him hopefully he'll become healthy but regardless of what happens with Greg you can be sure if in 6 years we get the #1 pick and its a Talent like Odens vs a Talent like Durants were gonna take the Big man again.

 

[KingSpeed]

Geez guys. Bowie was WAYYYY better than Thabeet and Darko. Look up his numbers. How do you think we were able to trade him for Buck Williams? Bowie was a very good center. He just wasn't Michael Jordan.

 

[julius]

Problem with quoting things about Greg that "should" have red lighted him is that no GM cared about that, everyone would have taken Greg except for maybe Orlando. We have him hopefully he'll become healthy but regardless of what happens with Greg you can be sure if in 6 years we get the #1 pick and its a Talent like Odens vs a Talent like Durants were gonna take the Big man again.

I have hope that a lot of Greg's issue is just imbalance over the years. I don't think MF is really a genetic thing (in the sense that Walton and Bowie both had genetic problems that couldn't be solved by changing of diet or shoes, etc), as much as it was an imbalance thing that caused damage. I know this topic has been talked about here before (and talked to death).

So that is why I'm hopeful that if they can finally solve the balance problems, and have proper training procedure done (weight distribution, etc), he should be ok.

What I mean is, I don't think that once he's healed and ready to go, he'll have repeated MF issues, and hopefully no knee blown out issues. Structural strength would be something I'd worry about, like if he kept breaking the same bones over and over. This seems to be wear and tear (premature probably) on the cartilage more than anything else.

Slim down the weight, get the necessary shoes and work on his core strength (or whatever the hell experts suggest) and he could be/should be fine.

 

[Rhal]

Geez guys. Bowie was WAYYYY better than Thabeet and Darko. Look up his numbers. How do you think we were able to trade him for Buck Williams? Bowie was a very good center. He just wasn't Michael Jordan.

Bowie was going to be the #2 pick in the draft regardless of who got the #1 pick. We needed a big Houston needed a big, a coin-flip decided who got Bowie and who got Hakeem. Bowie wasn't an allstar prospect he was a prospect that people expected to avg a double double and have very good defense, a great player for a team trying to make it deep in the playoffs.

 

[Rhal]

I have hope that a lot of Greg's issue is just imbalance over the years. I don't think MF is really a genetic thing (in the sense that Walton and Bowie both had genetic problems that couldn't be solved by changing of diet or shoes, etc), as much as it was an imbalance thing that caused damage. I know this topic has been talked about here before (and talked to death).

So that is why I'm hopeful that if they can finally solve the balance problems, and have proper training procedure done (weight distribution, etc), he should be ok.

What I mean is, I don't think that once he's healed and ready to go, he'll have repeated MF issues, and hopefully no knee blown out issues. Structural strength would be something I'd worry about, like if he kept breaking the same bones over and over. This seems to be wear and tear (premature probably) on the cartilage more than anything else.

Slim down the weight, get the necessary shoes and work on his core strength (or whatever the hell experts suggest) and he could be/should be fine.

I agree, all of his surgeries haven't been to anything but bones. His tendons haven't been, nothing in his body should be adversely effected by these surgeries. He should be able to get all of his quickness back and still be able to make a huge impact. Unlike Bynum or Yao there isn't a nagging injury at the moment that will cause him to keep having problems and eventually cost him his quickness.
The injuries I remember correct me if i'm wrong on any of them
Removed a bone spur in his knee
2 MF surgeries
Knee exploding.
All of those are related to Bones and when a bone gets broken it grows back stronger, i'm expecting a lot of big things from Oden if he can stay healthy.

 

[julius]

The injuries I remember correct me if i'm wrong on any of them
Removed a bone spur in his knee
2 MF surgeries
Knee exploding.
All of those are related to Bones and when a bone gets broken it grows back stronger, i'm expecting a lot of big things from Oden if he can stay healthy.

bone spur? the only other injury I remember was a wrist issue in college. that he came back from early and hasn't exhibited any issues with since.

 

[Minstrel]

Bowie was going to be the #2 pick in the draft regardless of who got the #1 pick. We needed a big Houston needed a big, a coin-flip decided who got Bowie and who got Hakeem. Bowie wasn't an allstar prospect he was a prospect that people expected to avg a double double and have very good defense, a great player for a team trying to make it deep in the playoffs.

Due to flawed philosophy. Even at the time of the draft, Bowie wasn't seen as as talented as Jordan. Teams just felt you couldn't "build around" a guard (Thorn, the guy who drafted Jordan, himself said it on draft night, amusingly enough) and therefore you should take any quality big man, almost regardless of talent disparity.

That's why I've never felt that the Bowie/Jordan vs. Oden/Durant comparison made much sense. Oden wasn't seen as less talented than Durant. In fact, scouts mostly felt Oden was the more talented prospect in addition to being a big man. Oden wasn't a reach, Bowie was.

 

[Rhal]

bone spur? the only other injury I remember was a wrist issue in college. that he came back from early and hasn't exhibited any issues with since.

I thought the collision with Maggettie's knee brace caused a little bit of bone to separate from his leg which is a bone spur is it not?

 

[julius]

I thought the collision with Maggettie's knee brace caused a little bit of bone to separate from his leg which is a bone spur is it not?

i forgot about that one.

 

[Draco]

I thought the collision with Maggettie's knee brace caused a little bit of bone to separate from his leg which is a bone spur is it not?

He didn't have surgery for that did he? I thought some people speculated it was a contributing factor to his patella fracture though.

 

[maxiep]

I thought the collision with Maggettie's knee brace caused a little bit of bone to separate from his leg which is a bone spur is it not?

A chipped bone isn't a bone spur. A bone spur is a growth on healthy bone.

 

[jlprk]

Well Bowie was a horrible draft pick regardless of health. The team selected a far inferior player because of fit. Sure he had injury problem but even if healthy he wasn't going to be a franchise center. Same as picking Darko over Melo, Wade, and Bosh.

Whuhhh?? Bowie was as good as Ewing, but not up to the Olajuwon/Walton class. Bowie had a lot more fame than Jordan. He was in every mainstream newspaper from high school on, while Jordan became noticeable to the layman only when he was one of several guys who won NCAA with No. Carolina. You talk about Bowie as if he's a Greg Ostertag.