McCain's No War Hero, Heroes Don't Get Captured

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SlyPokerDog

SlyPokerDog

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Wow. I guess the US POWs in World War II were not heroes either?

I have issues with McCain, not surprisingly, and HUGE issues with the Vietnam War. I can even question whether I'd call anyone who volunteered a "hero". But I would not question their courage or devotion, even if I think they were 100% wrong. And for a person who avoided service to make such an asshole comment is off the charts even for a bigot like Trump. OTOH, he wants attention and is sure getting it. Trump is a cross between the fuckup kid in school who thought he was so clever interrupting the smart kids and the worst internet message board comments section.
 
Why don't reporters ask him if he is aware his banging hot wives all liked him for his money, and if they were aware he liked them cuz they were beautiful every time they ask him anything?

For a follow up question they should ask if his hair is a joke or he does it on a dare or what the fuck?
 
I like Trump, but not for these comments.

IMO he's clearly a Democratic plant.

He's a troll and a damned good one.
 
I think it's common knowledge that Vietnam was a depraved drug soaked pit of death and torture, started by a lie, that cost over 1,000,000 lives, 100,000 of them children. The military industrial complex profited off each one of those deaths with a smile. So did anyone who owns stock in any of them.

McCain dropped bombs on for a living, I'm sure his bombs killed more than a few of those children. Is he a hero because he got caught? Nah. It's all part of the game.

That said, obviously trump is a shitlord, anyone that would vote for him is an idiot.
 
McCain won a silver star, bronze star, Purple Heart, legion of merit, distinguished flying cross, navy commendation medal, and others. These are reserved for heroes.

Additionally, McCain was shot down, had his arms and legs broken by his captors, was stabbed with bayonets, hung by chains with dislocated shoulders, and he was a POW for years.

Given the opportunity to be freed earlier than other POWs, he refused to take advantage of his family name.

His family were military men, a most noble profession. He didn't choose to go to Vietnam or instigate the war. He went where LBJ ordered him to go.
 
Prior to being shot down, he wasn't the model officer. His father and grandfather were legends. He was a black sheep for a while. But by all accounts he was the model of what a POW should be (influenced a ton, I'm sure, by ADM Stockdale, who was a legend and a hero.)

As for being a hero just because you're a POW, I submit Bowe Bergdahl.

But unless I missed where Mr. Trump put on a uniform and manned a post, this isn't where you should be focusing. Bring up S&L stuff, or his record in Congress, or his choice of running mate, or his family values, multiple other things you can bash McCain for...but POWs are kind of a minefield. Especially if you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Prior to being shot down, he wasn't the model officer. His father and grandfather were legends. He was a black sheep for a while. But by all accounts he was the model of what a POW should be (influenced a ton, I'm sure, by ADM Stockdale, who was a legend and a hero.)

As for being a hero just because you're a POW, I submit Bowe Bergdahl.

But unless I missed where Mr. Trump put on a uniform and manned a post, this isn't where you should be focusing. Bring up S&L stuff, or his record in Congress, or his choice of running mate, or his family values, multiple other things you can bash McCain for...but POWs are kind of a minefield. Especially if you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Trump should probably avoid family values.
 
I'd bet, if I were a betting woman, that the Republicans are happy for these comments. Because they mean they can finally without hesitation denounce Trump, that the media, especially Fox, will no longer treat him as a viable candidate. They could not really express outrage over the racism toward Hispanics, Mexicans, or the President, because it may have been crude but too often that had been the way to rally the base (that and gay bashing). Now everyone can agree he's gone too far.

I also see hypocrisy. How many of these outraged people were outraged when George W. Bush, who did not serve, swift-boated John Kerry, who did? Or when Saxby Chambliss, who did not serve, questioned the patriotism of Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam?

One can disagree, even furiously disagree, with another person's political views and actions, while still appreciating their sacrifices in the service. Even in a war that should never have happened.
 
crandc said:
I'd bet, if I were a betting woman, that the Republicans are happy for these comments. Because they mean they can finally without hesitation denounce Trump, that the media, especially Fox, will no longer treat him as a viable candidate. They could not really express outrage over the racism toward Hispanics, Mexicans, or the President, because it may have been crude but too often that had been the way to rally the base (that and gay bashing). Now everyone can agree he's gone too far.

I also see hypocrisy. How many of these outraged people were outraged when George W. Bush, who did not serve, swift-boated John Kerry, who did? Or when Saxby Chambliss, who did not serve, questioned the patriotism of Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam?

One can disagree, even furiously disagree, with another person's political views and actions, while still appreciating their sacrifices in the service. Even in a war that should never have happened.
Click to expand...

He's leading many republican polls.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Mexico's rich and elite is like an aristocracy, most of them hate the poor. Chances are that's a planted story, he probably gives zero fucks about Trump.
Click to expand...

If it is true it's a pretty brilliant PR move on his part. Maybe it's a face turn of sorts, attempting to become a Robin Hood sort of figure or something? It is quite entertaining if nothing. I'm guessing Trump will fire back by joking about him getting captured in the first place or something.
 
crandc said:
I'd bet, if I were a betting woman, that the Republicans are happy for these comments. Because they mean they can finally without hesitation denounce Trump, that the media, especially Fox, will no longer treat him as a viable candidate. They could not really express outrage over the racism toward Hispanics, Mexicans, or the President, because it may have been crude but too often that had been the way to rally the base (that and gay bashing). Now everyone can agree he's gone too far.

I also see hypocrisy. How many of these outraged people were outraged when George W. Bush, who did not serve, swift-boated John Kerry, who did? Or when Saxby Chambliss, who did not serve, questioned the patriotism of Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam?

One can disagree, even furiously disagree, with another person's political views and actions, while still appreciating their sacrifices in the service. Even in a war that should never have happened.
Click to expand...

Agree with much of this, but IIRC it wasn't Bush that swift-boated Kerry, it was the Swift Boat Veterans and POWs that served with him, including a man who earned the Medal of Honor. In Cleland's case, didn't he just run an ad talking about how Cleland voted against multiple post-9/11 homeland security measures? Maybe in Georgia that meant something, because he went from 20 points up to losing. Would it have swayed my vote? No. But someone evidently knew their constituents.

And just because you're against illegal immigration or disagree with the President, you're not a racist. For instance, there are 3 Afghan interpreters on my staff right now who have applied for Special Immigration Visas to the US b/c the Taliban know they work with us and have threatened their families if they don't stop. They have been waiting for 18 months. Two have been working with Americans and been involved in battles since 2008. And yet, they can't come to the US. But someone who's been deported multiple times for felonies can. Who is standing up for that? But I digress.
 
McCain was on his best behavior leading up to his 2008 presidential run, appearing moderate. Since then he has been the Senate's 2nd-biggest fascist after Lindsay Graham, bitterly pushing for new war after new war. For example, I'm a space fan. He is engaged in a 1-man destruction of the Atlas 5 rocket and its Russian engine, and the Air Force hates him for making their launch schedule impossible.

Trump's reactions are always those of a 12-year-old. When criticized by the debate moderator for criticizing McCain, Trump over-personalized it as usual. He lacks the temperament and IQ to be President.

But while childish, he represented the boiling resentment of both Republicans and Democrats that no criticism is allowed of the bully McCain, just because of what he did 45 years ago. It needs to be said with balanced rationality, not explosive juvenile emotion, but someone needs to say it, so maybe Trump's lousy attempt is the beginning.
 
With enormous wealth and a narsisstic personality any dick head can say idiotic shit like this. If his brother was in the same predicament he would stay silenced.
 
The only way Trump knows what it is like is watching a Hollywood Rambo film. This is the self centered candidate many will blindly support.
 
Which temperament does it take to be a president? I ask only because the last two have not had stellar intellects. Additionally, maybe someone who knows how to run a multi-billion dollar business and is too rich to be bought may be a useful candidate?
 
Brian, I agree that Bush did not personally do the swift-boating, but his campaign was involved. He could have stopped it - McCain showed honor when he shut down the crazy "Obama is an Arab!" lady. Bush could have done the same but did not.

Chambliss did not just talk about his differences with Cleland - he emphasized that Cleland was unpatriotic and soft on terror; he was joined by hate slinger Ann Coulter who also wrote that Cleland was no hero.

I can also add Lt. Col. Tammy Duckworth, Iraq war vet and double amputee, whose oppenent Joe Walsh called "not a true hero". He lost, I'm happy to say.
 
I totally agree that there are idiots in the world, vis-a-vis calling out LTC Duckworth, who is an odd assortment of political views IMHO---but to question her military record is just dumb. And you have me on Coulter...I have no idea (or really care to) what she says.

We're delving deep into semantics here, but I think there's a big difference between calling someone unpatriotic (I know plenty of people in the military who'd qualify) and questioning their service. I don't think that McCain's untouchable just because he was a POW--many of the things he's done/voted for don't mix with "taking care of the troops". Even wounded veterans like LTC Duckworth should be able to be scrutinized (I happen to think she'd do just fine under scrutiny, but whatever). Cleland's voting record was brought up and the appellation "soft on terror" attached to it, and he lost. Trump (or anyone else) should be able to respond to McCain by bringing up his past--but to use the words "I like people who weren't captured" is even worse than the "47%" Romney quote.
 
Here's the Cleland ad. I think crandc is completely mischaracterizing what happened.

 
Absolutely question their record, their positions, no argument.
 
crandc said:
Absolutely question their record, their positions, no argument.
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His patriotism or heroism was never questioned. His judgment on his 11 votes were.

The people agreed with Chambliss.
 
Actually I find Trump more honest than most. Certainly more entertaining when he takes a shot.
 
Like Reagan during his first campaign, Trump is showing early signs of Alzheimers.
 
Idiot Trump just erased the armed forces vote. Of all that are represented Christy at least has leadership experience. Besides that, I want him in Washington not NJ. I'm union.
 
Trump is a democrat.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...ald_trump_didnt_run_as_a_democrat_127475.html

Americans can change their political orientation over time—Ronald Reagan did it—but you’d be hard-pressed to find a Republican who during the last 28 years has variously listed his voter registration as Republican, Independence Party, Democrat, Republican again, and (as recently as 2012) registered himself in New York as “decline to state.” In the midst of that orgy of fickleness, Trump ran briefly for president—as a Reform Party candidate.

The money is the tipoff, as it often is with the man who never tires of boasting about his wealth. He has given money to both major political parties over the years, but until four years ago, when he toyed with running in the Republican contest eventually won by Mitt Romney, Trump had given significantly more money to Democrats.

These weren’t centrist or conservative Democrats, either. The recipients of Trump’s largesse, as The Washington Post noted in 2011, made a veritable “Republican enemies list.” Besides Reid and Schumer, it included John Kerry, Charles Rangel, Edward M. Kennedy, and Hillary Clinton.

Trump gave over $100,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, and to its Democratic counterpart over in the House. All during this time, he gave to Republicans, too—just not as much. According to F.E.C. records, Trump donated $1.3 million between 1989 and 2011, 54 percent of it going to Democrats. Since 2012, however, federal records show that Trump has given $463,450 to Republicans and only $3,500 to Democrats. Why the change in orientation? Trump himself is incoherent on this question, but a few theories spring to mind.

The first one can be called the Rachel Dolezal school of political identity: Trump is a Republican because, well, he just feels like being one for a while. This explanation is belied by how much affinity he expresses for Democrats. Trump donated $50,000 to Rahm Emanuel’s mayoral campaign, and as recently as three weeks ago he fawned over the mayor and one of his brothers, film actor—and Democratic Party fundraiser—Ari Emanuel.
 
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