McDonalds coffee case from years ago...

[Nikolokolus]

Having a society where corporations have to consider the safety of their product and potential harm it may cause, is a good thing!

It's fucking hot coffee ... not fluoric acid.

 

[Natebishop3]

Having a society where corporations have to consider the safety of their product and potential harm it may cause, is a good thing!

Or we just live in a society where people want to blame someone else for their mistakes.

It's not the fault of the shooter, it's the fault of the gun.

It's not the fault of the person riding in a car without cup holders, it's the fault of the company selling the coffee.

It's not the fault of the smoker, it's the fault of the cigarettes.

It's not the fault of the fat guy, it's the fault of the food companies. Better start regulating soft drink sizes!

People need to start being accountable for their own life decisions. Don't want to die from lung cancer? Don't smoke. Don't want to get fat? Don't eat fast food. Don't want to burn yourself? Don't spill hot shit on your lap. Don't want your child to get shot? Teach them about proper gun safety, or don't buy them realistic looking toys. It's cause and effect.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

It's fucking hot coffee ... not fluoric acid.

"Hot" being the operative word. I wonder what is worse to have spill on you McDonald's coffee or fluoric acid. This woman experienced 3rd degree burns and was hospitalized because of "hot" coffee.

Out of curiosity what happens if you spill fluoric acid on you?

 

[Natebishop3]

"Hot" being the operative word. I wonder what is worse to have spill on you McDonald's coffee or fluoric acid. This woman experienced 3rd degree burns and was hospitalized because of "hot" coffee.

Out of curiosity what happens if you spill fluoric acid on you?

So should they come out and make sure you're safely handling the coffee cup before they sell it to you? It's hot coffee. Everyone knows it's hot coffee. They say that it's hot coffee. You're buying hot coffee, no? Do you buy warm coffee? There's such a thing as assumed risk. It shouldn't have to be explicitly stated that the coffee is hot, and that if you spill it on yourself, you're going to get burned. Are people really that stupid?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Or we just live in a society where people want to blame someone else for their mistakes.

It's not the fault of the shooter, it's the fault of the gun.

It's not the fault of the person riding in a car without cup holders, it's the fault of the company selling the coffee.

It's not the fault of the smoker, it's the fault of the cigarettes.

It's not the fault of the fat guy, it's the fault of the food companies. Better start regulating soft drink sizes!

People need to start being accountable for their own life decisions. Don't want to die from lung cancer? Don't smoke. Don't want to get fat? Don't eat fast food. Don't want to burn yourself? Don't spill hot shit on your lap. Don't want your child to get shot? Teach them about proper gun safety, or don't buy them realistic looking toys. It's cause and effect.

Like to exaggerate? Stop and look at society Nate. So as far as I know, cigars and cigs are legal, fast food is legal. Hell buying guns and cars that go 120 MPH (even though speed limit is never that) is fine. It is not a society of blaming others for your mistakes and corporations are anything but gun shy (look at the ford pinto) But put out a product that you know has the potential to harm the consumer, ignore the fact that people are being harmed and continue to profit selling a dangerous product, then very likely could be sued in America. Rightfully so . . .

 

[SlyPokerDog]

There's a really good documentary called Hot Coffee that looks into this. It's on Netflix and it does a good job of explain this lawsuit and a few others like it. http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/70167106?strkid=1006929569_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70167106

 

[Natebishop3]

Like to exaggerate? Stop and look at society Nate. So as far as I know, cigars and cigs are legal, fast food is legal. Hell buying guns and cars that go 120 MPH (even though speed limit is never that) is fine. It is not a society of blaming others for your mistakes and corporations are anything but gun shy (look at the ford pinto) But put out a product that you know has the potential to harm the consumer, ignore the fact that people are being harmed and continue to profit selling a dangerous product, then very likely could be sued in America. Rightfully so . . .

If the product is legal, and you aren't forced to use it, then all of the liability is your own. There are warnings all over cigarettes, and yet people still try to sue tobacco companies.

It's one thing to knowingly hide the dangers of your product. If a car had something wrong with it, and a company hid that problem, then they deserve to be sued.

People sue gun manufacturers because someone went crazy and shot people. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-shooting-victim-sue-gun-maker_n_1950654.html

People sue fast food for making them fat. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91427&page=1

People sue tobacco for giving them lung cancer. http://www.drugfree.org/join-togeth...ck-smokers-survivors-to-sue-tobacco-companies

Sorry, but there's no secret about what cigarettes will do to you. To this day, I have no idea why young people start smoking. We were made explicitly clear what cigarettes will do to you from a very young age. There's nobody to blame but yourself if you die from lung cancer.

Nobody is being forced to smoke. Nobody is being forced to buy hot coffee. Nobody is being forced to eat fast food, but they do, and then they blame the companies that sold them those products when something bad happens. It's blaming someone else for your own life choices, plain and simple.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I guess if it was proved that McDonald's was acting negligently and knew that their coffee was a health hazard I can see the argument for the lawsuit, but a huge part of me finds the idea that every accident or mishap can be turned into somebody else's fault (and monetized) extremely distasteful.

And nobody thinks that resting a cup containing hot liquid between your legs is negligent?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If the product is legal, and you aren't forced to use it, then all of the liability is your own. There are warnings all over cigarettes, and yet people still try to sue tobacco companies.

It's one thing to knowingly hide the dangers of your product. If a car had something wrong with it, and a company hid that problem, then they deserve to be sued.

People sue gun manufacturers because someone went crazy and shot people. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-shooting-victim-sue-gun-maker_n_1950654.html

People sue fast food for making them fat. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91427&page=1

People sue tobacco for giving them lung cancer. http://www.drugfree.org/join-togeth...ck-smokers-survivors-to-sue-tobacco-companies

Sorry, but there's no secret about what cigarettes will do to you. To this day, I have no idea why young people start smoking. We were made explicitly clear what cigarettes will do to you from a very young age. There's nobody to blame but yourself if you die from lung cancer.

Nobody is being forced to smoke. Nobody is being forced to buy hot coffee. Nobody is being forced to eat fast food, but they do, and then they blame the companies that sold them those products when something bad happens. It's blaming someone else for your own life choices, plain and simple.

Actually a lot of the cigarette lawsuits including the big one here in Portland were concerning how cigarettes were marketed to consumers. Cigarette companies sold cigarettes that were labeled as light and ultra light and how advertising saying that they are a safer alternative to regular cigarettes. Those cigarettes were no safer than regular cigarettes and in fact some of them had a much higher nicotine. If you're making false claims about your product even if your product is considered unhealthy you should expect to be sued.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I like my coffee black............like my men!

I like my coffee like I like my women..... Black, ground up, and in the freezer!

 

[Denny Crane]

I like my coffee black............like my men!

I like my coffee with Mrs. HCP in the morning.

 

[Natebishop3]

Actually a lot of the cigarette lawsuits including the big one here in Portland were concerning how cigarettes were marketed to consumers. Cigarette companies sold cigarettes that were labeled as light and ultra light and how advertising saying that they are a safer alternative to regular cigarettes. Those cigarettes were no safer than regular cigarettes and in fact some of them had a much higher nicotine. If you're making false claims about your product even if your product is considered unhealthy you should expect to be sued.

Well, that's what I was saying about knowingly hiding the dangers of your product. If you falsely advertise, or if you attempt to hide the dangers of your product, that's another thing entirely. It's not like McDonald's told her the coffee is only luke warm, or that it was completely safe to rest it between her legs.

 

[porkchopexpress]

I like my coffee like I like my women..... Black, ground up, and in the freezer!

Eww. You'll ruin your coffee that way...

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I like my coffee like I like my women, in the kitchen.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I like my coffee like I like my women, covered in cat poop.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I like my coffee like I like how my refridgerator runs, very homosexually.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Well, that's what I was saying about knowingly hiding the dangers of your product. If you falsely advertise, or if you attempt to hide the dangers of your product, that's another thing entirely. It's not like McDonald's told her the coffee is only luke warm, or that it was completely safe to rest it between her legs.

When you have time watch the documentary I provided a link to. McDonalds had 100s of complaints by just from customers but also employees who were seriously scalded and/or inured from the temperature of their product. They knew the danger but the financial gain from their temperature choice out weighed the liability or cost of that decision.

 

[Denny Crane]

When you have time watch the documentary I provided a link to. McDonalds had 100s of complaints by just from customers but also employees who were seriously scalded and/or inured from the temperature of their product. They knew the danger but the financial gain from their temperature choice out weighed the liability or cost of that decision.

GM sees the number of deaths in Corvettes, too. They keep selling them. Obama bailed them out and the unions own the place; they're still selling them.

 

[jlprk]

For several years before that lawsuit, I complained to people about how hot McDonalds coffee was. I was glad someone stopped them, although Republicans made it a cause celebrè to ridicule her and say the country is lawsuit-happy.

Anyone who ordered coffee with their hamburger or pancakes would thirstily eat the solid food, mouth dry, while waiting at LEAST 20 minutes for the coffee to become drinkable. It ruined the meal. You would go get a cup of water and leave before you could drink the coffee. Ripoff.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Anyone remember this?



I'm curious to see if my personal theory about which "side" people are on is true.

I did a case study on this when at an advanced claims school.

The plaintiff was right. McDonalds was wrong and took a typical big corporation tact that backfired. It represented, to me, the very worst big business can be.

 

[julius]

GM sees the number of deaths in Corvettes, too. They keep selling them. Obama bailed them out and the unions own the place; they're still selling them.

GM see's numbers of deaths in Corvettes? link?


btw, I think people are forgetting something. Who here buys coffee and thinks "oh hey, this is hot enough to burn me to my bone"

 

[Natebishop3]

GM see's numbers of deaths in Corvettes? link?


btw, I think people are forgetting something. Who here buys coffee and thinks "oh hey, this is hot enough to burn me to my bone"

Hot coffee is hot.

Sharp knife is sharp.

Slippery floor is slippery.

Why do they need to be exact in their statement? When they tell you it's hot, it means don't spill this shit on yourself. When someone says "this knife is sharp," do they need to tell you that it's sharp enough to slice your finger off or do they just need to say that it's sharp? It's pretty obvious that you don't want to cut yourself, no?

 

[jlprk]

This case was famous because the Republican party set it up as the prime example of America being lawsuit-happy. The party represented its contributors, incompetent doctors who wanted to decrease the cost of malpractice insurance while horrendously screwing up surgeries.

Republicans had caused the very problem they complained about, when they had deregulated industries in the 80s and 90s. Deregulation simply means that with fewer laws governing corporate behavior, corporate (and doctor) offenses will be decided, inconsistently and one at a time, by the judicial branch, instead of the legislative branch's "mass production" "one size fits all" "cost effective" laws.

Deregulation of laws just transfers decisions to lawsuits in the courts, from a more efficient branch of government to a less efficient branch. When Republicans complained about lawsuits, they were both cause and effect.

 

[Natebishop3]

This case was famous because the Republican party set it up as the prime example of America being lawsuit-happy. The party represented its contributors, incompetent doctors who wanted to decrease the cost of malpractice insurance while horrendously screwing up surgeries.

Republicans had caused the very problem they complained about, when they had deregulated industries in the 80s and 90s. Deregulation simply means that with fewer laws governing corporate behavior, corporate (and doctor) offenses will be decided, inconsistently and one at a time, by the judicial branch, instead of the legislative branch's "mass production" "one size fits all" "cost effective" laws.

Deregulation of laws just transfers decisions to lawsuits in the courts, from a more efficient branch of government to a less efficient branch. When Republicans complained about lawsuits, they were both cause and effect.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Hot coffee is hot.

Sharp knife is sharp.

Slippery floor is slippery.

Why do they need to be exact in their statement? When they tell you it's hot, it means don't spill this shit on yourself. When someone says "this knife is sharp," do they need to tell you that it's sharp enough to slice your finger off or do they just need to say that it's sharp? It's pretty obvious that you don't want to cut yourself, no?

I think that is a great example. I expect a "sharp" knife can cut off a finger. I do not expect "hot" coffee can cause third degree burns and hospitalization. I don't associate the term hot coffee with coffee so hot if you spill it on you it will cause serious injury. I think scalding might be a better term to use for that temperature. . . but I don't think people would buy "scalding" coffee.

Anyways don't you think it's fair to say 12 people heard all the relevant facts and made a decision . . . and really is that such a bad system.. All a lawsuit buys you is presenting a case to a jury, it doesn't automatically mean you will get money.

 

[julius]

Hot coffee is hot.

Yes, but coffee isn't supposed to be so hot it burns you, through your clothes, and goes down to your bone.

If I ordered coffee from a diner, or a restaurant, and I accidentally spilled it on my lap, I know it'll hurt. But I don't expect it to burn my skin so bad I need an operation to fix it.

Sharp knife is sharp.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. But sure, knives are supposed to be sharp.

Slippery floor is slippery.

and this has to do with Mcdonalds purposely having their coffee so hot it would give human skin a 3rd degree burn, how now?

Look, yes coffee is hot. but does any one of us actually think coffee should be so hot that it gives us a 3rd degree burn?

Why do they need to be exact in their statement? When they tell you it's hot, it means don't spill this shit on yourself.

Yeah, but guess what? People spill coffee on themselves.

When someone says "this knife is sharp," do they need to tell you that it's sharp enough to slice your finger off or do they just need to say that it's sharp? It's pretty obvious that you don't want to cut yourself, no?

Yeah, but there's sharp and then there's RAZOR sharp. A steak knife is sharp, but a razor is sharper.

To make this comparison work, it'd be like making a steak knife like a razor (because for some reason it's cheaper to do this than the other style), and just labeling it "sharp".

And then someone goes into the utensils drawer, and pulls out a steak knife, only to slice off their finger because it's so sharp.


Coffee is hot, but it's not melt your skin and muscle hot. There's a reason why McDonalds lost the case, and it's not some liberal agenda to make mean evil big businesses suffer. It's because they made a choice to sell an unsafe product, knowing full well it was unsafe.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yes, but coffee isn't supposed to be so hot it burns you, through your clothes, and goes down to your bone.

If I ordered coffee from a diner, or a restaurant, and I accidentally spilled it on my lap, I know it'll hurt. But I don't expect it to burn my skin so bad I need an operation to fix it.



Not sure what that has to do with anything. But sure, knives are supposed to be sharp.


and this has to do with Mcdonalds purposely having their coffee so hot it would give human skin a 3rd degree burn, how now?

Look, yes coffee is hot. but does any one of us actually think coffee should be so hot that it gives us a 3rd degree burn?



Yeah, but guess what? People spill coffee on themselves.



Yeah, but there's sharp and then there's RAZOR sharp. A steak knife is sharp, but a razor is sharper.

To make this comparison work, it'd be like making a steak knife like a razor (because for some reason it's cheaper to do this than the other style), and just labeling it "sharp".

And then someone goes into the utensils drawer, and pulls out a steak knife, only to slice off their finger because it's so sharp.


Coffee is hot, but it's not melt your skin and muscle hot. There's a reason why McDonalds lost the case, and it's not some liberal agenda to make mean evil big businesses suffer. It's because they made a choice to sell an unsafe product, knowing full well it was unsafe.

Come on Jules, they didn't purposely make the coffee so hot that it would give third degree burns. At what point is coffee so hot that it will give a third degree burn? Was McDonald's like, "bro, set that shit to the third degree burn setting."

My point about the knives is that people want their knives sharp, just like they want their coffee hot. The words sharp and hot are not specific. At what point is something hot? At what point is a knife sharp? There are varying degrees of hot, just as there are varying degrees of sharp. Coffee was not brewed with the idea that some dumbass might spill it on themselves. It's made hot, and given to you in a cup with the little cardboard thingy around it. That's to protect you from the heat until it's cool enough to drink. Similarly, knives are sold to you in a protective sheath.

If you pull the knife out of the sheath and drop it on your foot, is it the fault of the manufacturer that the knife went straight through your foot? It was your fault for mishandling the knife, correct?

So why is it the fault of the coffee maker that you mishandled the cup and spilled hot coffee on yourself? The coffee is not meant to be spilled on yourself, just like a knife is not meant to be dropped on yourself. That's not what they were designed to do, and when you mishandle them, such as placing the cup between your legs in a moving vehicle, you remove the liability from the manufacturer. Just my two cents.

Is coffee intended to be consumed the second you purchase it? I always wait until my coffee cools a bit before I drink it. It's implied that the shit is hot and I don't want to burn myself. There's no definitive number of degrees, there's just "hot" and then there's "cool enough to drink."

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Come on Jules, they didn't purposely make the coffee so hot that it would give third degree burns. At what point is coffee so hot that it will give a third degree burn? Was McDonald's like, "bro, set that shit to the third degree burn setting."

My point about the knives is that people want their knives sharp, just like they want their coffee hot. The words sharp and hot are not specific. At what point is something hot? At what point is a knife sharp? There are varying degrees of hot, just as there are varying degrees of sharp. Coffee was not brewed with the idea that some dumbass might spill it on themselves. It's made hot, and given to you in a cup with the little cardboard thingy around it. That's to protect you from the heat until it's cool enough to drink. Similarly, knives are sold to you in a protective sheath.

If you pull the knife out of the sheath and drop it on your foot, is it the fault of the manufacturer that the knife went straight through your foot? It was your fault for mishandling the knife, correct?

So why is it the fault of the coffee maker that you mishandled the cup and spilled hot coffee on yourself? The coffee is not meant to be spilled on yourself, just like a knife is not meant to be dropped on yourself. That's not what they were designed to do, and when you mishandle them, such as placing the cup between your legs in a moving vehicle, you remove the liability from the manufacturer. Just my two cents.

Is coffee intended to be consumed the second you purchase it? I always wait until my coffee cools a bit before I drink it. It's implied that the shit is hot and I don't want to burn myself. There's no definitive number of degrees, there's just "hot" and then there's "cool enough to drink."

You're wrong big Nate. Again, when you have the time watch the documentary on Netflex. 180 was the temperature standard set by McDonalds. Everything is very regimented. You don't want the individual McDonald's stores cooking burgers, fries, etc at different temperatures.

 

[Natebishop3]

You're wrong big Nate. Again, when you have the time watch the documentary on Netflex. 180 was the temperature standard set by McDonalds. Everything is very regimented. You don't want the individual McDonald's stores cooking burgers, fries, etc at different temperatures.

I get that the coffee was really hot. The problem that I'm hung up on is that she put the cup between her legs, she spilled the coffee, and therefor I do not think the blame lies on McDonalds. If you were to say that she burned the inside of her mouth, that would be a different story. The coffee is intended to be consumed. If someone were to burn the inside of their mouth, and then sue, at that point I think you could argue the case.

Spilling coffee on yourself is not the fault of McDonald's. And if the coffee was at the proper temperature, whatever that is, what kind of burns would you have? 2nd degree? 1st degree? Could you sue if you spilled the coffee and it gave you 2nd degree burns? What's the brightline?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I get that the coffee was really hot. The problem that I'm hung up on is that she put the cup between her legs, she spilled the coffee, and therefor I do not think the blame lies on McDonalds. If you were to say that she burned the inside of her mouth, that would be a different story. The coffee is intended to be consumed. If someone were to burn the inside of their mouth, and then sue, at that point I think you could argue the case.

Spilling coffee on yourself is not the fault of McDonald's. And if the coffee was at the proper temperature, whatever that is, what kind of burns would you have? 2nd degree? 1st degree? Could you sue if you spilled the coffee and it gave you 2nd degree burns? What's the brightline?

There is not a brightline and that is the beauty of our system.

If someone wants to bring a lawsuit because they cut off a finger while holding a knife, if that case ever got to the jury, the jury would laugh that one out of court.

Are you really so surprised someone spilled coffee on themselves. It happens all the time. Now if McD continued to serve coffee this hot and I knew, of course I wouldn't hold it between my legs. I would treat that coffee like it is a loaded gun without a safety switch and not have it just sitting in my lap. But if I didn't know about McD's coffee I would be OK with holding coffee between my legs figuring worst case scenario I get a burn blister.